to respond to what you said about the chocolate labradors what i said was they are being bred alot of time for color only hence suffering the same fate as cocker spaniels did.thats reality.there is reason that 97 percent of the dogs at the national open are black.i don't want it to be that way either but unless a chocolate is thoughtfully bred by a knowledgeable breeder you don't want it.you can tell alot about a lab by the colors in his pedigree..after many years of encountering the poorly bred type i can't help but feel that way,i have had three this year.terrible inapporiate aggression towards people and animals,labs are supposed to have kind gentle souls...and i know smart is a highly subjective term.i prefer emotional intelligence in a dog myself...and i'm sure it may not be true there but here the black lines are the top preformers most of the great foundation studs are homozygous for black.......so don't be offended anytime you have a recessive color this is a possibility...if we have to make sure and tell the reality people want to hear it sort of defeats the purpose of the boards doesn't it??????....try typing in aggression in chocolates labsin your search engine,its not just me that thinks this way

I'm not offended by the remarks made on choc labs. I just know that i have three lovely choc labs and the nine pups my oldest bitch had have all turned out fine. I also have two friends who each have 2 choc labs and they are fine too. I just haven't experienced this agression in any of the ones i've known. Like i said the forum wouldn't exist if we didn't have conflicting opinions and all our own knowledge is based on our own experience.

Black is THE colour in Labradors yellow is carried as a recessive gene and for many years was not accepted. Ben of Hyde (Born in 1899 (I remember it well!)) is believed to be the very first yellow! In 1923 Mrs Wormald of the old Knaith kennels took Knaith Bounce (In my Anna's pedigree) to the Kennel Club's show at Alexandra Palace. The ring steward tried to turn her away, saying that the dog was a Golden Retriever but as another lady once said, that lady was not for turning either! That was really the start of yellow's in the show ring. It was always the proud claim of the great Mary Roslin-Williams (Mansergh) that she never had a yellow in her kennel! All of the above is well documented. An old friend of mine who judged and awarded CC's in Labradors to this day will not entertain a yellow and is horrified that I have yellows! She says that because yellow is a recessive then all recessive health problems will come out! (Not strictly true I'm glad to say!)

The first Chocolate I ever saw was in the late 1950's. (A nasty brute I must say! was OK with people but let another dog near him at your peril!) Even at that time Chocolates were selling for half as much again over a black! As an idea on price, My Mandy cost me, if my memory is correct, £25. At that time blacks were around £35 and Chocs in the region of £45. Dogs in those days were on average £5 to £10 pounds dearer!!!!

My own feelings are that yellows, because of the prejudice in the ring in the early days had to be noticeably superior to be noticed in the ring. Whilst choc's, coming into prominence much later were brought, even in those days, to be different and to be noticed. Breeders even in the 60's were breeding to fulfil a market and I do believe that when this happens, a breed or a colour of a dog within that breed, will suffer.

Best wishes, John

Well done John. You must be getting on a bit or your'e just wellread. You definitely know your stuff. You have advised me a few time through the board. Max is now 8 months old and getting more friendlier to people not as afraid as he was. He's quite bold now stepping out for a stroll around and when in woods or ashurst beacon off lead he's like a whippet running here there and everywhere just loving it. He likes lying flat in the long grass so you can't see him then he pops out at you.
Many thanks for all the advice and help. When's the book coming out as still interested in a copy.
You don't know of any good kennels around the Wigan area do you????

Best wishes
Carole

Arr Carole, considering I went to school with that bloke Mathusula (His maths was a bit poor you know!) I have been around rather a long time.

Wigan’s a bit out of my area I’m afraid, bit nearer Mattie’s area if she sees this.

Don’t quite know the latest state of play of the book at the moment but it shouldn’t be much longer I would think.

Best wishes, John

Thanks John

Hope mattie gets back to me with any information. Is she/he the same that runs the lab rescue site??? was thinking of joining the forum on there but not sure only stumbled on this by accident.

Thanks again for all the advice won't hesitate to post if max has anymore problems or should I say I have anymore problems.

Love and Best Wishes
Carole

Thats the same one Carole, and she's a she ;)

Best wishes, John

Update on the book for anybody interested ! It is as we speak in for the production of the final proofs and so will be ready for the first print run very soon!

Will keep you all posted !

Lucy :D

You know what they say..... you're as young as you feel :D

liberty ;)

On Monday morning I feel OOOLLD Liberty, but when I finish on a Friday I feel YOUNG Young young!!!!!

John :p