can you show show champions in open shows? are there ANY exceptions?

There are no restrictions to showing a champion at open shows. A champion may only compete in the open class for their breed, or avnsc open if no breed class is scheduled. There are no exceptions to this rule.

However, it is "not the done thing" in quite a few breeds.
bye
Gwen

On another hand it helps newbies at open shows if there are champions present, if your dog shapes up against them its very encouraging. Also experienced people with champions are often very helpful to the newbie as regards handling, grooming and showing :D. At least they are in my breed in wales :)

Its one of those questions there is not right or wrong answer to. Novice judges should be able to gain valuable experience by handling excellent dogs if they were to come under them. On the other hand, would you want your up and coming young champion to be dumped and critiqued by someone with inusufficient knowledge to appreciate them (or by someone on the open show appointment swopping circuit - who has to justify a dodgy line up with a potentially damaging critique?) However, my original comment was not meant in this vein, but simply as a guide to the original poster that some breeds (incidentally not mine!) look askance at Champions appearing at open shows - it is an 'etiquette' thing.

And from my own breed I know that the regular open show exhibitors do not appreciate it if a Champion makes a very occassional appearance just to walk off with top honours. After all, if it is indeed a dog worthy of the title, and is competing against dogs of lesser quality, it gets depressing for the regulars.

My opinion (for what it is worth) is that it is unfair (what we used to call "Pot Hunting" in the horse show world) for Champions to appear at open shows - they have a fair crack of the whip at Ch shows, where a lot of the Open Show exhibits dont stand much chance, after all, not all dogs are made equal, if they were there would be not point in shows:)
bye
Gwen

gwen. doesnt that make a definite split between the two shows and expected quality, if by saying a champion shouldnt be shown at an open show, and the open shows are left for the dogs incapable of holding there own at champshow level. --then the quality of the open shows is going to be doubtful, ive only ever done 4 open shows with a champion bitch, and shes there to be beaten, i wouldnt go dragging her around every weekend until she was pig sick just so i could "pot hunt" , but some of us dont have big kennels, therefore if they didnt take the current showdog out theyd be sitting a long while between championship shows, to some of us its a hobby, a day away from the family goings on, -which i think is a break a lot of us look forward too,

Hi Dizzy,

But dont you think there is already a 'split' between Open & Championship shows - by very virtue that they are their as 2 seperate things? We have a 3 tier show system - Companion, Open & Ch. I see it very much as a progression thing (and I am not suggesting everyone should agree with me) OK there are a lot of 'cross-over' dogs who regularly do 2 or even all 3 types of shows, but generally (and again I am talking about my own breed, as it is the only 1 I have enough knowledge about the numbers and types of entries) there are a lot of people who get enormous pleasure out of attending Open Shows, often almost every week, and are extremely proud of gaining JW (and now Sh CM) awards, and of clocking up BOB and even Group & BIS wins. Some of these dogs are also regular attendees at Ch shows, and for the most part, whilst often being class winners, rarely acheive more than this at this level - not because they are being stopped by a particular dog/ dogs winning, but because they are not quite of the quality of the top winning dogs.

It does not seem fair to me for the dogs taking top honours at the Ch shows to then start cleaning up at the Open shows too, surely this would lead to an even further decrease in the Open Show entries, as the old regulars stay away due to no longer getting the kudos they did before. And then what about the exhibitors one step further down the line - often newbies who have a not so great dog, often with a few glaring faults and just a little bit of breed type, they are delighted to pick up the odd 2nd, 3rd VHC etc at the open shows, and are often the ones who put in lots of extra entries in AV etc. Would they have the same enthusiasm if they hardly ever even got a placing because of the extra top notch dogs?

Someone posed the question about judges and novice exhibitors not gaining experience if Champions dont enter - but a lot of quality youngsters use the open show as a practice ground in their early show days, so the novices can get "their eye in". And if they are truly interested in learning, then they will attend Ch shows, and seminars, presentations, club shows etc.
bye
Gwen

Gwen

I only have two dogs, both of which I show and both are young in a slow maturing breed. Because they are also in a numerically small breed we do not get many classes at open shows, so if they are good dogs then they will do all their 'big' winning at championship shows. Hopefully, fingers crossed, both will get their titles, only time will tell. If they do, do you think I should stay away from the open shows, which I really enjoy. I doubt very much that I will have room for a new youngster for many years.
It's just as easy to get a dominant dog at open shows anyway, one of the above mentioned dogs was only ever beaten once in an av puppy class at open level. Nobody seemed to mind, he was also top puppy in the breed in the UK for that year. I don't think that I should be denied my hobby at open shows just because they are at the top of their breed at championship level. Over the last few days my younger dog has won three classes at well supported champ shows, should I now not go an open shows this weekend?

I think it makes a difference if the breed is a numerically small one like mine, where we have 18 sets of CCs. Within my Catchement area (as far North as Stafford, from Bristol) I can do 8 to 10 champ shows a year. This would mean I have only Open shows to go to the rest of the year, or have to stay at home.

I usually do around 10 Open shows (Two or 3 of which will be Non CC champ shows). More often than not you get beaten, and even if you go BOB, it is not a breed that often gets Group or Best in Show. We have a trdition of showing our Champions, as often without them there is very few at a show.

We managed to rally a super entry of 26 at South West Hounds show, and there were several Champions and CC winners present, and it was the first time I had gone BOB in the 3 years I have shown her, having previously been beaten by Novice dogs or other Non title holders.

After all the judge dhould be judging the dog on the day.

If you don't have champions entered in open shows how are novice judges to learn what the top of the breed looks and feels like? I have had no problems with people showing their champions. However, those showing their champions must be able to take the knocks in good grace. If everyone held the opinion that champions for championship shows only then it is no wonder that open shows are dying on their feet.

why?????? ------- do you intend having one :D

Aren't we all Dizzy!!!!!

We can all dream!!

Surely the guide to the answer is in the title Open Show, it means what it says open to all dogs registered with the Kennel Club and for whom there are classes.

Also how is a new owner supposed to be able to spot a 'good' dog if they never see a champion? many new owners don't get to champ shows for various reasons and not all breeders are able to spot a good dog worthy of showing before its sold. One of the nicest things about the Open Shows is the informal atmosphere and not knowing what dogs will turn up.

If people can't take the competition then they should support Limitred shows, but sadly these have almost died out, so obviously folk don't mind taking on all comers, LOL, :D

im more or less in the same boat as you brainless, we only have 10 cc's allotted us, so other than staying at home a lot i think its nice to pop out to an open show now and then, i also agree that if a judge isnt getting to see a dog of quality in a breed, then he might be thinking hes seeing the best there is in a poor specimen, i know this has happened in our breed, --theyre called open shows, as theyre open to all,

Hi Dizzy & Brainless,

Yes, I can perfectly see how it makes sense in minority breeds, and if it is the norm and everyone in the breed is happy with it then you are keeping up the entry figures and staying in the ring. With my breed (and our dogs) things are a bit different. We have CCs fairly well spread through the country and through the year, and classes without CCs at quite a few Ch shows too. We are also a breed that gets high honours failry frequently, both in groups and stakes, with the resulting publicity. Given this, I stick by my guns, and say it would not be either fair or well received if we started taking our Champions/Top winners on the open show circuit.

Mike attended an open show recently, close to home for him, with a bunch of the youngsters. He was greeted with much hilarity, had a fun day, and the babes received some valuable education. I think his receiption may have been a little different if he had turned up with Arabella, Engelbert, and then Riot for the Veteran Stakes!

bye
Gwen

mike who >??????????????????????????????????:D :D :D :D :D

The surname wouldn't begin with G would it????????:D

do you reckon :rolleyes: :D :D :D