I know that when breeding for the first time you should get as much info as possible. !8 mths ago i bred my labrador for the first time, it was hers and mine first litter (well litter that was mine) I worked in a kennels where tess was bred born raised and worked and i had seen plenty of pups born in the five years that i worked there for, but nothing could have prepared me for the cost and heartache that me my work colleagues and my family endured. As tess was used to the kennels we decided to let her have the pups there, that way there would always be some one on hand, 2 days before her due date i got a call at 7am to say the tess had had her pups 5 in total, work was 5miles away and i cycled to work i got there in record time 15 mins, just in time to see the last pup being born.
there were 3 girls, faith (choc) hope and charity (blacks) and 3 boys Ralph (choc) and fergus and flick(blacks).
Fergus was much smaller than the rest of his litter mates, to give you a rough idea he was about the size of an adult hamster this was the only pup that tess could pick up so when i left the kennel she would present him to me, i would then have to get her to lie down so he could feed. Although not as big as the others he grew just as quick.
At 4 weeks we noticed that he had one eye permantly shut and weeping, off to the vets he went, our vet wasnt there so he was seen by a locum, he said he was blind in that eye due to rough play or handling by siblings and mum and as soon as he was big enough he would need the eye removed, for the time being we were given drops for him.
A week later whilst cleaning his kennel out i noticed a cut on his lip, off to the vets he went, he saw the locum once again how gave us antibiotics and told us to bring him back in a week to stitch the wound at the time nobody thought anything of the fact that he didnt stitch it. At six weeks off to the vets fergus went to have his lip stitched, we saw or normal vet who said that he wanted to do a biospy as a growth had appeared where the swelling was, he thought that he either had cancer or an auto immune diefiency and the biopsy would let him know, the same week he saw an eye specialist who said that he wasnt blind all he would need was cosmetic surgery when he was a year old to remove the blemish on his eye.
When we got the results of the biopsy back fergus had e coli amoungst other bacteria in his lip, he was given the strongest possible combination of antibiotics available for his age and size, he was growing quickly putting on a kilo a week.
Weekly visits to the vets continued, and fergus had antibiotics, x rays, total removal of the lump on his lip, and finally we tried laser treatment to kill the bacteria, none of these worked, the last treatment was to completley remove the whole of his left upper lip, and then when he was older to reconstruct his lip.
By this time fergus was losing weight and his appetite and his zest for life, with only 30% chance of the op working we decided to end it for fergus sake.
Fergus wasnt insured as we were unable to get him insured and he cost me in the region of £1000, bearing in mind that i gave two of the pups away one as stud fee and one to tesses breeder for her stay in the kennels, tess also got mastits (luckly she is insured) he left me broke dont get me wrong though if the op had a higher chance of success i would have paid that and anything else, just to give him a chance i would have gladly got myself in debt for him.
When fergus was exactly 16 weeks old 'the little chap' as he was known went to the vets for the last time, as ever he made his presence known and wrecked the waitng room displays the vet had become attached to our little man in the weeks that had past it was just as hard for him as it was for us when he was put to sleep.
Fergus will forever be in our hearts and had a kc name that suited him perfectly 'FERGUS THE GREAT' and great he was.
The point of this post is to let people know think hard and long BEFORE chosing to breed, as nothing can prepare you for what we all went through, i nearly lost tess and i did lose Fergus, breeding isnot as easy or as glamourous as you think, i had people with 20 years of experience helping me there were people on hand 24/7 and a great vet but nothing could be done to help the little chap.
As the saying goes Look before you leap
tanya

Hi. I know exactly how you must be feeling, I had a litter of Gsd,s 8 years ago, its taken me that long to ever breed a litter again, my bitch and her kennel mates went off colour 2/3 days before the puppies were born they went to the vets who gave them all antibiotics, they had very loose motions and generally not well, however after a couple of days they seemed fine again, anyroad Emma gave birth to 8 Shepherd babies all healthy or so it seemed, 2 days after they wee born they stopped feeding, and were cold, vet was summoned and he put it down to fading puppies, the next day the pups had really loose motions and discharge in their eyes, we were trying to feed them also they were on antibiotics but they just did not want to know, then they started having fits, one by one they started to die vet did loads of tests and just could not find out what was wrong, there was one little bitch who struggled to keep going it was hard and heartbreaking watching these babies. Then one day some tests came back that the vet had done DISTEMPER the pups that were still alive had no chance of survival they were just too young so they were all put to sleep, I spayed my bitches and never taken a litter again for 8 years, I must add that all of my dogs were injected against distemper and the like, so where was the immunity that the mother had given to them, When we breed we must always remember that things can go wrong when we least expect it to and we always get heartbroken at having to make descisions against the very lives that we caused to be born

Janines

well I am afraid to say it, knowing how feely-sensitive people can be in this day & age......but its called survival of the fittest! Its simply nature doing what nature does best & thats all there is to it. Its only because humans (some!) have got over sensitized & try to save weakly puppies that would die naturally if left to nature.
Hope your bitch & other pups are giving you lots of pleasure.

Well I`m not afraid to say dogs of today have more to cope with than just nature! I can well agree with survival of the fittest but animals in this day & age, their immune system are being bombarded with chemicals, not only from whats given by owners/vets but also in the food they eat, in the enviroment, thats not nature. Survival sometimes in this day & age takes a damn sight more than than the fittest!!!!! And even then the fittest don`t survive or end up with auto immune diseases. Animals are being vaccinated numerous times as pups & then yearly, fed what experts would have us belive are complete foods, crop spraying that blows for miles, wormed every 3mths, defleaing every mth, teeth cleaned yearly. Yes, we all need to be really fit to survive that!
Christine, Spain.

Thanks for that Tanya, this is just the sort of thing I have been trying to warn would be breeders about!!!.

I am so sorry about your experience, I too had a bad experience about 7 years ago, which is why I am trying to open people's eyes to the problems that can happen.

I had a lovely litter of 6 puppies, when they got to 5-6 weeks, one of the pups started to have breathing difficulties. To cut a long story short in the next two weeks we spent every day at the vets, with puppies suffocating as we were taking them there, we lost 5 out of the 6 in the end. The whole family were distraught, all the new owners were distraught, it cost me a fortune in vets bills. :-(

It turned out to be a genetic problem with glycogen storage, and it took me a long long time to breed another litter, and even now years later I watch my pups like hawks when they get to that age.

Jayne

Dear Tanya

I do feel for you and hope that the rest of your dogs are healthy and strong.

I would not ever breed because I havent the knowledge or the time to do so but I must be one of the touch feely people Sam is mentioning because I would have done the same as you. In this day and age you cant harp on to what happened years ago when pups were just left to die - we have so much more science/techology (or whatever the right terminology is) to help us so why not use it. It doesnt work every time but when it does it must be so good. I know you have to weigh up whether you would be causing more distress than should be caused but I believe every case is different and every pup should have a chance if possible as long as I wasnt causing them any pain and you did your very best.

Best wishes Gina

I'm afraid I'm in both camps here. On the one hand I know what it feels like to lose kittens at 3 weeks old (burmese) and I would have done almost anything to help them. On the other hand, by giving extreme help we are storing up problems for future breeding - if the weak survive with the strong then how do you know only the strong will be bred from?

Christine you are right on the nail there - goodness knows what effect all the additives in the food and the drugs/vaccinations is having on our dogs (and us!)

been here got the tshirt.i lost 6 out of 9 flatcoated retrievers last octber, to kennel cough,i was not going to breed again as this was my second litter in 15 years of beening in the breed,it was hard work for 4 weeks then having to pts 6 of them broke my heart,then in feb wispa came in to season all my friends said to breed from her,her last litter was 3 years ago she had 10 in her litter all did well,one got her jw,another one dose well to in showing and the other one in austria shows well to,so with alot of friends help i did it again wispa had 6 puppies it was a joy to see health fit and naugthy puppies for 8 weeks,now they have gone to their new home to give the new owners enjoyment to,i know i had a bad time but the good time weight that outthe bad ones,keep your chin up.

I know all about survival of the fittest and all that, and i would like to point out that fergus was healthy other than his eye being punctured due to rough play and his lip was torn due to rough play, i was also told that tess was trying to kill the pup as she knew he was ill, my answer was always 'why does she only bring him to me then?' it was just her way of trying to get me to stay with her, and if she had had the pups at home she probably would have done the same, when fergus moved home with us at 8 weeks she was very protective of him and watched him and our springer like a hawk when playing if the springer got too rough she would rush over and stop them (its a shame she doesnt stop herself when playing rough though)
Obviously i know im not the only one that has lost pups, i was lucky in the way that i only lost 1, i just wanted to share this with people who thought that breeding their dog was a quick way to make money believe me it isnot
tanya

i like to know whos makes money out of their litters,i know i donot,i still went to work to pay the vet bill and the up keep of the litter.and their mum,then theres the stud fee, kc,fees,then i had mine micochip to,the list go,s on.i think the only people that make money are breeder,s that have 4 or more litter a year and that depends on the size,and no problems,the breeders that breed alot it may be their income like us going to work to,its a big ball game with dogs,in showing breeding and working them.

I think we all know who makes money out of breeding Briedog...& it aint the responsible guardians of the breed like us!! :(

Hear hear :(
Dill

Just been reading throught this thread, and I have to say, I'm worried sick now!!

My girl is due in 2 weeks, and so far everything has gone great, and we're all (bitch,hubby, and I) very relaxed. Our girl is doing well....she's just started to slow down a bit in the last few days.
I've got everything sorted out...the whelping bed, which she's sleeping in now, the whelping kit, the vet is on alert!!! and I can phone my breeder at any time for help and advice.....

I suppose, from everything that has been said, it just goes to show....you can do everything right, but then things can go drastically wrong. It's awful, and I hate hearing about this kind of thing...I get really upset!! But unfortunately it is a fact of life, and to be totally honest, I think it's a good thing for us 'new' breeders to hear about....I have certainly learned that breeding is no easy task....and my first litter isn't even born yet!!

Onto, drugs etc....I have 3 GSD's, a border collie, and 3 collie X's...I try to keep drugs to a minimum, they have their boosters once per year, and are wormed every 3 months. Other than that, I try to steer clear of drugs....I know of people that rush to the vet at the slightest sign of something being wrong with their dog, and I respect that...I'm a real worrier myself about my dogs!! but I think when you've had 'dog' experience, and as I do, have a lot of dogs, you get to know the serious problems. Most things I try to sort out myself.
Okay.I'm going right off topic here!!!

Take care

Lisa

So sorry to hear about your experience.
I too know how heartbreaking it is to lose pups and myself lost 5 out of 9 Bordeaux pups.
I did everything to save them and eventually found a cure for the Fading Puppy Syndrome they were suffering from myself via the good old internet.
It saved the remaining 4 but I only wish I had found the cure sooner as it may have saved the other poor babies :-(
If you want to read what happened to me and the cure do a search on here for " Fading Puppy Syndrome".The post is called "New Hope For Fading Puppy Syndrome"
Hopefully it can help any breeder, new or old, as we never know when a tragedy in our litters can strike.

Staffie can you email me with regards the above, cant seem to get yours as it is hidden

Cheers

John

I found your story very sad I read alot about breading and read alot but nothing prepared me for when i had my first litter a week ago, I lost 2 pups because it was her 1st time and she killed them, since then I have stayed with them at all times and now are all doing really great! But the loss of the 2 pups both girls really did upset me and my family, I was crying the kids was crying, we tried to revive the 1st one but none of any thing i read prepared me for it, and the worry I have had since and the lack of sleep. Which i will add was worth it, But i would agree with read and learn all you can before hand because it will all become a shock as I well found out!

Even though I had bred 7 litters previously, and at least 3 with some problems and loosing pups, this last litter was the first time I had a bitch lay on a pup. Pig rails would not have done any good in this case as the pup was in the middle of the whelping area.

She had had a long stage one and labour, and she and I had not slept two nights, and I suppose we were both just shattered. This bitch had 3 years earlier produced a litter of 9 pups and reared the lot with no problem. This time we had 2 born dead, and six live, with one being crushed, and a week one having to be put to sleep at 11 daysafter failing to thrive, so 4 lost out of 8 pups in the womb. No breeding is not for the faint hearted, or ill prepared. :(