Can anyone give me some advise please.... Me and my boyfriend have a 9 week old Dogue de Bordeaux who is an angel 99% of the time. She has settled in better than we could have ever dreamed, however, when we tell her off if she is doing something wrong, (ie biting our ankles and shoes, or trying to get on the furniture) she retaliates by growling, jumping, snapping and being aggressive. If we walk up the garden its nearly impossable as you take one step, take dog off ankle say no, take another step, repeat process etc etc, We realise it takes patience, but would like advice to ensure we are doing the right thing. She does not understand the word no, how do we teach her this. She is a hardy girl and not easily frightened, so our tones dont seem to have much impact. We have read many books but each has a differant method of reprimanding, We thank anyone who has any advice.

Hi -After spending an hour last night with a friends litter of nine week labs -I was thourughly(sp ) nipped ,chewed,shaken ,growled at ,scratched the full lot -I have frayed laces and teeth marks in the bottom of my trousers :D Its puppies , it's what they do ! persevere and be consistant and it will right itself -she is still a baby and will be for some time yet -be patient :)
Liz :)

Hi Angela

Given that you have a Dogue de Bordeaux which is not exactly the smallest dog in the world you need to take control of any dominant situation NOW sorry for the length of this but it is not a simple subject and i have only brushed the surface with my reply.

MISCONCEPTIONS
First, let me clear up a few misconceptions about what constitutes aggression. If your dog growls at you while you are playing tug o' war, but not at any other time, then you don't have an aggression problem. It's a "play issue". However Left unchecked it can lead to aggression in the future. I do not recommend any games of “tug “or “strength” with your dog whatever the breed.
If however, you’re dog growls at you, or the children, while he is eating, putting on his lead and collar, or when you give him a command or for no reason then you DO have an aggression problem.
If the dog nips when young, then the prognosis is good that all you need to learn are some positive and negative reinforcement techniques to cure the problem. However, if the dog bites and it is passed the puppy stage, then you have a much more serious problem and require professional help. Biting, for whatever reason, can be the most difficult problem to correct.

FIRST RULE OF AGGRESSION THERAPY
Aggression begets aggression. Hitting an animal to correct aggression is not an option (although in an emergency situation, it may be your only recourse if are actually being attacked, although there are better means of protection and escape).

However what you have here is a Puppy. Puppies have a need to mouth and bite it teaches them "Bite Inhibition in later life. At present they have teeth like hypodermics for one reason and one reason only "to Hurt" it's as simple as that.

They do not have any jaw muscles worth talking about at this age, so they need to understand how much pressure to put on before it hurts and you and their siblings then go OUCH and turn away which teaches them to inhibit their bite in later life. So it is a necessary evil.

Having said that it sounds as though you may have a dominant puppy and need a set of guidelines but always remember that it is a puppy allow it to have it's youth but in a controlled and friendly environment.

The following is a list of leadership do's and dont's

Leadership Checklist

· Feed scheduled mealtimes (No free-feeding) pick up bowl if not finished within ten
minutes

· Feed AFTER humans eat. Or gesture eat a wafer or biscuit from near the bowl before feeding.

· Dogs always go through all doorways and entrances AFTER humans.

· Never play tug-of-war with your dog it can cause aggression or damage a puppies jaws or teeth.

· If you establish eye contact, dog must avert gaze first.

· Dogs are NEVER allowed to bite or mouth ANYONE, ANYWHERE! (This includes play)
but puppies will do this for bite inhibition.

· No sleeping on your bed, this can cause dominance problems later in life if you must, the dog can be allowed to sleep in the bedroom but on your own terms not the dog’s.

· Petting or attention to the dog should be given when YOU decide attention is to be given (absolutely NO PETTING when the dog nudges or paws you or your hand)

· Puppies or small dogs who demand to be picked up and held and/or demand to be put down. Should not be picked up until they sit or some other acceptable quiet behaviour, and should not be put down until they settle quietly in your lap or in your arms.

· Games with toys, especially fetch, are initiated AND ended by the human, toys then put away.

· Never put yourself in an equal or lesser height position than your dog (i.e. - kids don't get to lay on the floor to watch TV when the dog is about, and no one plays on the floor below the dogs )

· The dog should NEVER be allowed on furniture, especially if uninvited.

· Enforced time-outs in crate/ bed - no reason, required, the bed or crate should not be used only when your dog does something bad! But also when it does something good, make it positive.

· A simple obedience command, such as "sit" should be obeyed before any pleasurable interaction (eat, pet, play, etc.)

· Dog should be taught NOT to pull when on leash. There is a technique to teaching this, which always works within minutes which does not require Halti’s or Harnesses .

· Dogs should NEVER be left unsupervised with children or ANYONE who cannot maintain leadership over dog.

· Dog MUST MOVE if in your path on a floor or stairway, etc. even if you are able to step over him

· When on a walk, dog must not be allowed to sniff or eliminate/toilet anywhere he wants (for males, one mark against one tree is enough!) until you get to the park and then it is unlimited.

· Everything belongs to you: the toys, the crate, the bowls, the bed, etc - they are only on loan to the dog! You should be able to clean, move, handle or remove any item at any time without hassle from the dog.

· Dog should be taught an "out" or release command ("give", "release", "out” or “dead") for things in his/her mouth. Dogs should not be allowed to steal things if that happens, they should be able to release any item on command, if pup won’t release squeeze front paw gently increasing pressure till the item is released then praise dog.

· Dogs must not be allowed to jump up at ANY time; if you allow it occasionally the dog thinks it’s OK behaviour. Dogs do not understand “sometimes” only yes and no!

· Some final thoughts! You can take the Dog from the Wolf but never the Wolf from the Dog. It is an instinctive pack animal, and must be treated as such. Treated incorrectly your dog could become stressed, aggressive, or depressed, and could end up with some serious behavioural traits.

By the Way the command No is useless and is used in far to many occassions it is too soft and really means very little to dogs. you need to teach words like "OFF" or "LEAVE IT"

Best of luck

Doglistener

Thanks very much for your advice... it must have taken you ages, i very much appreciate it and will certainly start showing her "whose boss". You have given me many good ideas to work on.

Thanks to all who replied, i know that she will come good, and its us that need training as much as "Winnie".. Thanks again!

"Dog should be taught NOT to pull when on leash. There is a technique to teaching this, which always works within minutes which does not require Halti’s or Harnesses"

Can I ask what technique this is, please?

Thanks,

Sarah

I'd be interested to know this, too!
:)

Hi all

A few people have asked me to share the technique of training a dog to walk to heel in minutes.

Can I ask a favour, I have posted this before when you try this and it works, which it always does if you do it correctly would you mind posting your success so other can gain from this technique.

Firstly you should understand why the dog pulls, it is either Anticipation, this one doesn't pull on the way back from the park. Dominance this one wants to lead the hunt and pulls at all times. And the Fear puller, pulls on the way back from the park. however there is also a fourth one and quite often this is one of the main reasons dogs also pull, the dog likes to feel you at the end of the lead, it gives them comfort when they are slightly ahead and can't actually see you.

Irrespective of the reason the one answer is

1. A proper leather or canvas collar not a thin one but as wide as you can buy, thin rolled leather ones bite into the neck and therefore I would not recommend them.

2. A six foot lead

3.A Dog.

the dog must always be on your left side. Hold the lead in your right hand, the best way is to put the loop over your thumb and close the palm of the hand over the loop. using your left hand hold the lead about 12 to 20 inches up from the collar, depending on the height of the dog. step off with your left foot saying heel at the same time. When the dog pulls ahead simply feel the tightness very slightly in your left hand then drop the lead out of your left hand.

As the dog get to end of the lead simply turn 180% and go back the way you came giving a slight corrective jerk and release when the lead is at fulll stretch and if possible at the same time as your turn. (DO NOT ISSUE ANY COMMAND AT THIS TIME) not giving a command is vitally important. With this type of behaviour modification, you want to make the dog think that it's own actions are causing the reaction, i.e he pulls it then causes you to turn.

Repeat this till dog starts walking to heel. Normally takes three to five minutes if you are following the correct technique. Then start praising and treating the dog for the correct position, in other words it is at this time you say Heel and what a good boy heel.

Most people say heel when the dog is out in front or behind which is teaching the dog the wrong position when you issue the command.

Then start enjoying your non-pulling dog. You may have to remind him over the next few weeks a few times but you will find it so much easier

best of luck

Please post how you got on

Doglistener

Hi Doglistener,

Thanks for the extensive reply. I had heard that when the dog pulls you should walk the other way, but your reply gives all the details. I have just taken my pup for a short walk before bedtime. I think that your method certainly shows promise. I will be using it over the next few walks. Dylan doesn't pull much at the moment, but I don't want him to start!
Another poster said that speeding up slightly can reduce pulling. I have found that when I walk a bit faster, Dylan happily trots at my side much of the time.
One more question: if the dog stops to sniff something (and is therefore pulling backwards on the lead), do you just continue walking?

Thanks,

Sarah

Hi Sarah

Good question and I should have covered it in my earlier posting.

As I mentioned it is vitally important not to give a command when you turn or when the dog is pulling forward. However if the dog is pulling sideways or marking or sniffing all the time then you must give a short light corrective jerk and say "Leave it" make this command short try and run the words together "Leaveit" like all commands they should never be drawn out.

When you walk your dog it doesn't think it going for a walk it's instinct says it is on a hunt all Alpha Males and Females control the hunt and of course the pace and direction of it hence it is vitally important to control this aspect of your dogs behavior.

If I am walking my dogs to heel I allow them two marks and sniffs till I get to the park then they can mark and sniff to their hearts content it is also important to be aware of when to praise and when not to therefore I have put a set of commands together to help you with this.

Commands

Jumping up: OFF! SIT! no praise.

Heeling: HEEL step off with left foot praise for good behavior when heeling correctly using what a good boy etc

Scent Marking LEAVE IT light corrective jerk on lead no praise

Mouthing: OW (loud) hard stare then turn back on dog no praise if this doesn’t work use GET OFF in a low loud commanding voice plus hard stare

Things in Mouth: DEAD or DROP get dog to release then praise, if dog will not release then squeeze paw gently increasing pressure when the dog releases say word DEAD OR DROP give plenty of praise.

Sit: SIT praise NEVER say SIT DOWN this confuses.

Down: DOGS name then DOWN praise try using name to gets dogs attention practice sweeping away front legs if he/she doesn’t go down automatically. You can also use titbits at this stage.

Doorways: BACK praise never let your dog precede you through any doorways, bang door shut if the dog tries to push through no command or praise the dog will think it is his actions that are causing the banging. ( careful you do not catch dogs nose)

Return: DOGS name then COME lavish praise and treats at first to incentivise your dog, then only when recall is good

regards

doglistener

thankyou doglistener!. my 2 are terrible for pushing in front of me when going through doors. any ideas on what to do when someone knocks at the door?!. i have to literally drag them into the kitchen whilst shouting *hang on a mo*:o :o.

Hi

Yes i get this a lot and it's not difficult to cure. The quickest way and there are about 6 ways of curing this

Get some friends and a water pistol or one of those garden spray things for indoor plants.

Put the dogs on a lead when the doorbell rings make them sit whilst you are opening the door then the person (friend) who walks in ignores them but gives a quick squirt without any command or eye contact. repeat till dogs don't want to go to the door.

Regards

doglistener

Thanks doglistener, for your comprehensive reply again. :) The commands are pretty much what I was already trying to use, so hopefully I'm on the right track!

Sarah

Great idea and I can see it working with my staffies - they pull on the way out but not the way back!
However our male Bordeaux really pulls and whilst my husband can walk him I cannot. Sadly I don't think your idea could work for me with him as when I try to turn he would just carry on dragging me with him :-( He really is that strong so do you have any other ideas for him? Our bitch Bordeaux walk great on a lead so I usually stick with taking her! :-)

Hi

I cured an enormous Irish Wolf Hound called Goliath (great name!) yesterday in about 2 minutes flat works for all sizes and makes, get your husband to do it first then he will automatically not pull for you.

Doglistener

It's curious - my dogs will pull with people who let them get away with it, and not with people who appear more in control. Just an observation - no criticism of anybody intended.
:)

My hubby gets pulled by him too it is just that he is strong enough not to let the dog drag him to the nearest tree!, I just get dragged along :D
Hubby is going to have a go with the above technique so fingers crossed to pull free walking :-)

Let me know how you get on Best of luck

Regards

Doglistener

hello doglistener
i wonder if you could direct me to any books in respect to understanding your dog. i have read jan fennels doglistener which has given me a thirst.
im due to be the owner of a boxer 7wks old on saturday and intend to be an understanding owner as well as responsible.
i see you are a dog behaviourist do you run local forums?
thanks in advance
emma
r

Hi Emma

It is against the rules of the forum and quite rightly so to suggest or promote my own practice therefore I cannot reply within the forum. whether i do local forums and Behavioural seminars

With regards to books my hero and mentor was John Fisher sadly now deceased at a very young age and an enormous loss to the dog World, so any book by him may I suggest THINK DOG as a starter then any of his other books like WHY DOES MY DOG............ DOG BEHAVIOUR EXPLAINED by Peter Neville is also an excellent book.

Start with them and you won't go far wrong

Regards

Doglistener

sorry i was not asking for you to promote yourself you already do that on the forum i was interested if such foram existed. as i only know cat people and it would be nice to talk to someone other than a vet.
thank you for the book suggestions i will order a couple
thanks for your time
emma

Would love to know the technique for teaching a do to walk on leash without pulling. My puppy is 8 months old and still pulls on the leash. Would love to know a technique that works that does not involve resorting to using halti collars and the like.

You've just brought back some happy memories of my little puppy bitch attaching herself to my shoes every time I walked up the garden path :D
Lara x

Hi

I have a Labrador pup who is nearly 11 weeks and he is doing the exact same thing, especially with his lead. After he kept biting me I tried the "yelping" approach (trying to make it sound as realistic as possible). I also gently tapped him on the nose (as advised by a friend who has a dog) but I didnt really like doing this. So last night I decided to bark back at him in the same type of tone he uses and he actually stopped nipping, backed off looking at me (tail still wagging) and went to play with his toys. Did the same again this morning when he had one of his "moments" and once again it worked. Is this ok to do or will I cause problems later on. I know its only day 2 of trying this and it might not work again but just wanted to check.

Thanks All
Catherine

If it works, and doesn't upset him, then personally I can see no problems. He seems quite happy with what you're 'saying' to him, and it's having the desired effect, so don't worry.
:)

At last another human who is learning to speak dog! :D. I speak both dog and cat and am always amazed that many humans (the more intelligent species) expect their dogs and cats to learn human 'speak' without learning their pets' language. There again I have had such eloquent teachers (my dogs LOL :D)

Yes, I probably am as daft as I sound :D :D

Dill

Heheh

I'm always talking to my cats, especially my male one who I'm sure is more dog than cat :D
Hubby thinks i'm strange but I dont care!! :)

Doglistener, I have just tried your anti-pull technique and it is working. I used it at the start of our work and admittedly it did take me more like 10-15 minutes (probably down to my technique) with the tooing and froing not seeming to bother him much but then a few different signs of dominance revealed themselves, he got very annoyed with the lead then he decided not to move at all and sat on his bum. But the perseverence paid off (goodness knows what it looked like), when he finally started to heel, I then used the command and also added good boy. He just looked at me as if to say "why didn't you say that in the first place" and didn't move far from my ankles. So thanks for the great advice. :)

Hi Angela,

Congratulations, you have a normal and feisty puppy! "Telling off" a very young puppy usually does not work. At best it can turn a submissive puppy into a quivering wreck, but in most cases does nothing at all other than excite a normal puppy even more.

With a little one, the best way to stop most unwanted behaviour is to stop the game - because that's what your puppy is doing, playing. If she nips at your ankles and shoes, stop walking and stand completely still. She will stop. If you move and she starts up again, stop again. No fun for her. If she persists after trying this for a couple of weeks you can stop and rattle an empty soda can of coins as you say "no". Keep it up. Patience will work eventually - but remember she is a puppy and perfection is a long way off. :-)

With regard to furniture, say "no, off" and deposit her back on the floor. If she growls or snaps, ignore her and put her on the floor anyway. Whatever you do, do not show her that you are afraid of her (no matter how sharp her puppy teeth), because she will learn that she can intimidate you.

If your pup gets really wild, you can calmly put her in her crate. I find that when puppies are uncontrollable they are usually well past their nap time - and like kids they are having a tired tantrum.

Have fun with you pup,

Stacey

Hello all,

New puppy here too. How long would you expect the biting phase to last usually? Our 12 week old Dobe is great most of the time (happy to be touched when eating or have hands near his bowl, toilet training going well, good with strangers, good at the vets) but he does like biting my partner and I which he does when he gets excited and he simply doesn't give up nipping ankles or trying to bite your crotch even if you say 'No!' in loud voice and stand still or walk away to try and isolate. We've been trying this since we got him 3 weeks ago - you get the impression from the behaviour books that a few times should be enough!

We've also tried covering our hands with nasty tasting things (whisky, vinegar, mustard!) but he seems to like them!

I had understood that putting in his crate when naughty wasn't a good idea as they should only associate it with good things?

Kind regards,

Jude

This mouthing usually continues till they've finished teething, round about 7 months. Once the really sharp needly puppy front teeth are out, you hardly notice them doing it!
:)