I rest my case. If you are only travelling to shows, you are only seeing dogs that other people who show are showing.

I would say(and I think you would agree) the vast majority of dogs arent shown(I believe the comment earlier was along the lines of one in a litter is lucky). So you are missing out on a vast majority of dogs out there. Certainly from my experience of shows, some of the dogs that people show are total genetic abominations.

The beauty of genetics is that you never ever know. Two really ugly stupid humans can produce one amazing super-model. by the same token two super-models can produce one very ugly person.

Now are you telling me that you can map the entire genetic structure of a breed of dog isolating all of the good characteristics from day one, when it is a puppy. Nope. Just the same as you cannot tell how tall a human will grow to be on the day it is born. So by that token you can reduce the odds by seeing more of the offspring, but until you see all of the offspring you can never be 100% and 100% of their off spring you still have no idea of what may be turned out.

You dont have to go to shows to track people and places and dogs down, with the advent of the internet you can see and do so much more research online. And yes most responsible breeders are happy for you to come and see thier pride and joy.

To infere that you do is absolute twaddle, different people have different opinions which is inherently the problem with Showing, it is down to the opinion of ONE person :-)

I posted this topic and well, theres a well known saying.

Give some people enough rope and they will hang themselves.

Need I say more.

Yes. As you posted the topic, perhaps you could answer the questions that were asked?

liberty

well i hope your not casting me with the same stone as what you have just said is exactly my point only i tryed to say it in a more polite manner and just to correct you on the two types of dog owners that is actually a type cast you just put out ther your self as i have been involved in both pet and show as an owner and as work also. however you are quite right you should love your dog whatever i couldnt agree more...although people do have the right to come on here and express there opinions whatever they may be and do not need to be called spoiled brats for doing so dont you think.
eld1

One of the reasonsI asked to know this posters affix, was so that I could judge the quality of her dogs myself (if any that she has bred have gone or are in the showring).

We all at some time or another suffer from kennel blindness and a sweeping statement as she made about her dogs being the best, made me interested to see what they were like!!!

Particularly as I have friends in the breed she mentioned in her posting, who would I am sure be very interested in finding a superb example to maybe use in their breeding programme.

I agree with what you are saying Johnny, about that there are good dogs in both the show and pet homes, but as Val has already stated (being groomers ourselves we concur with her) the vast majority of dogs bred for the pet market are poor quality and suffer from innumerable hereditary illnesses and problems, causing a great deal of distress and money to their owners.

Most pet breeding is done by people who do not understand what checks are needed to be done on their dogs before breeding on from them, as can be seen in a lot of posts on this board asking about stud dogs available etc. etc.

All we are trying to do is point out that buying from someone who is trying their best to weed out problems in their breed you stand more of a chance of getting a healthy dog who is typical of their breed.

Again I find myself asking about the dog world and do I really want to be involved in it. Find myself asking once again for you lot just simply to GROW UP! and stop behaving like a bunch of spoiled kids in a playground arguing over whos daddy is the strongest or the best.

Yes teacher :rolleyes: :D

my daddy is the strongest and the best!

I guess most genuine breed enthusiastics who sell puppies that they feel are not quite up to scratch sell the puppies as pets not to be bred from. They would still be more that good quality bred puppies of good example of their breed. Markings are are something that is desireable I am sure , that gives a bit of a competative sparkle. This is different from puppies bred that don't resemble their breed, or poor health lines without thought.

I fail to see a witch hunt here.

If people not directed at the original poster , post a strong opinion that is not shared by members of the board then they will get replies they didn't maybe want to hear. That is life. It is not personal. Sometimes it is best tp open a thread with a question inviting opinions and not making bold statements that on occasion are wrong. :-)

BFN Pam

also vanya the person in question has not said that she would be breeding from sub standards of bloodline or anything else for that matter and i would also take it from her post that she has some experience in the show world there for would know have a good knowledge so again in the statements earlier you are only making asumptions

I am not sure who you are meaning when you say " you are making assumptions" but I am sorry you are the only one making assumptions and taking the post in another direction

my comments, as you replied behind my post are based on my opinion of how people should breed, they were and I CLEARLY said in my first reply not directed at anyone but just my opinion and based on my breed, as the original poster posts triggered opinions. Nobody criticised the poster directly.

Not sure why you are getting up in arms about this are you the poster?? Whether you are or not you are totally misinterpretating everyones comments.

That's me said my bit and as the poster has not returned the thread as far as I am concerned is done. :-)

Pam

well pam i wasnt actually replying to you at all i was talking to the person who was saying about bloodlines. my reply to that has got posted over yours though and if i was the original poster i would have answered your question by now wouldnt i as it happens im not so i havent and im not taking the board in any direction i think if you look back i have actually said in so many words i do no see one right over the other because everybody has there own oppinion on this matter and you could actually get 50 different answeres to the same question in this matter and that no one need offend anybody else by what they conclude to be right or wrong.

ld1

please can any show breeders reply to this question
but agai by people saying things like all be it wrong you are in affect saying that she is wrong and unless you can answere the reason why with out leaving any room for doubt then how can you pass that assumption. we do not no this person so who are we to say that she is wrong indeed

Locking until I have a chance to branch this thread. Please do not start another thread on this subject, as this one will be continued when I have time to do it.

I am not a breeder, and I never will be, but I have bought 3 pure bred dogs over the years from 3 different breeders.
The first one was 12 years ago, and he came from a breeder who shows. He was sold as pet quality, which is exactly what I wanted. He has been, and still is, a very healthy boy, who looks very much like he should. He has a few health problems now, but at his age that is to be expected. This breeder has since moved to another state, or I would have only dealt with her.
The second one is now 5 years old. She came from a breeder who does not show, but I was assured that she was show quality. To my untrained eye, she looked beautiful. My poor girl has had more problems than I can name here. I would have been laughed out of the show ring if I had entered her. She has allergies to everything, and has had ongoing eye and ear infections all her life, as well as an overbite. I have been asked by strangers if she is a poodle, (she is a long haired dachshund) so that tells you how far from the breed standard she is.
When I was looking for my third, I was determined to find a good breeder, so that I could get a puppy that would be as healthy as possible, and look as much like the standard as he can. I contacted many breeders, before finally locating the one I got my boy from. He is now 9 months old, and he is "perfect" in my opinion. LOL I would not hesitate to go back to this breeder again.
I would never again purchase from a breeder that doesn't show. Any breeder will tell you that their dogs are perfect examples of the breed, and unless the customer is trained in recognising a good dog , you would have to take the breeders word for it. As I am not trained to recognise a good dog, I will take into account the opinions of Judges of the breed, not just the breeder.
I am lucky that I have found a breeder who lives and breathes dogs, and she is always helpful if I need advice.

Pauline

the place that i work has 18 great danes 12 of them are showing and the rest dont my boss also has 4 springer spaniels and we are a public boarding kennel hosting 53 for that as well when full.
after coming through this board and reading all enquiries on such a subject would most people think that my employer was wrong to breed from what show breeders would maybe class as sub standard lines and then go on to sell these puppies or is this in your oppinions ok because she knows what she is doing.all of her own dogs are all kc reg all with great bloodlines but i dont allways agree with my employers actions i tend to think that more than often she lets money rule her heart . surely if she does not show the other danes and springers she should not go on to breed them and sell them without endorsments to the public am i right.

Sorry folks, been busy at work, so now having a catch up ..........

LD1, when you refer to your employer breeding from what some would class as sub-standard lines - in what way do you mean sub-standard? - health?

M.

So Vanya,

just out of intrest and I am NOT trying to cause a arguement what is your affix? Im just getting intrested in showing and I wondered if I had heard of it at all?
Cheers
Vikki