hi everyone...its kelly mccoy..i posted here yesterday but it won't let me log back in but i wanted to ask if they require elbow certification.over there.i didn't any breeders listing them...it is a huge problem over here and a recent study by the ofa showed it is perhaps one and half to two times as heritable as hip dysplasia...also i didn't understand the hip system as we rate them fair good excellent....does they have a hipdata base that tell the rate of dysplasia???...does anyone know???..i think we have 11 percent..but thats from a screened for normal database...

Hi Kelly, I'm watching the F1 Qualifing for the Monaco Grand Prix at the mo and nothing interferes with my car racing!!!! I'll give you the full story later.

Mean while. make sure you have cookies enabled on your PC. Not sure if the password is case sensitive or not. If all else fails email Admin and i'm sure they will help.

Post you the hip and elbow stuff later.

Best wishes, John

Right, back with you!

Hips are scored between 0 perfect and 53 max bad per hip in the UK.

9 features (Angles, shapes and clearances) are measured with 8 of them being given a grading of between 0 and 6 and the 9th (the caudal acetabular edge) between 0 and 5 which makes the possible maximum 53.

It is usual (though not always a god thing) to add the scores for both hips together when talking so for example a score of 7/7 would be referred to as 14. Obviously a world of difference to dog with a 0/14 score although the total is the same!

We tend to compare our dogs scores to the breed mean score which in Labradors is 16.

Shoulder and elbow testing is an area to lag behind. The scheme is in place but is only now gaining in use. The grading is between 0 and 3. 0 is normal, 1 mild ED, 2 Moderate ED or a primary lesion and 3 Severe ED.

The results are published in the Kennel Club’s “Breed Record Supplement” and the breed mean score is on the BVA's web site (Although it is a little behind the times!!!!)

Obviously Hips can be influenced by enviranment so a certain amount is inflected rather than inherited. Elbows and Shoulders can be made worse but I personally believe that you can only make the problem worse, not create it. It is possibly getting to be more of a problem now than it was a few years ago but I dont personally believe the problem of elbows is that great AT THE MOMENT.

If you want more info on the subject email me and I’ll scan the relevant info in and email it to you.

Best wishes, John

hi john...thanks for the info!!!!...it seems strange the way they rate hips.,the lower the number the better i guess,does anyone get 0/0??...i really feel they key is phenotypical superiority or what we call excellent..they did a recent study at ofa giving mating probability of 155.000 dogs with know sire and dam hip scores it was fascinating..excellent to excellent produced a dysplasia rate the rivals greyhounds.,something they call the'' additive effect'''....do you guy have a database that tell the percent of dogs with dysplasia etc?????...i'm fascinated with this orthopedic stuff....in part because i also breed GSD"S and the germans don't look for phentypic superiority only normal or less...hence the high dysplasia rates.....................................who won the race????

In my breed out of some 400 now scored there have been 2 with 0/0 scores. Our breed average varies between 12 and 14, and is similar to that of other Spitz breeds like Samoyeds, and Border colies. Our range is not as bad is some breeds that have had the full range from very best to very worst, o to 106, ours is 0 to 61.

Hi Kelly.

Important bit first. Juan Montoya (ex CART champion ind Indy winner) won the race!

I have taken the liberty of emailing you some info on hip scoring, hope you dont mind.

Yes, there are some 0/0's around but in reality, anything from possibly 4/4 down is as perfect as makes no difference and anything up to 10/10 is unlikely to ever have a problem. The mean score for Flatcoats is 9 (total), Lab's 16 and Goldens 19.

Have a look at http://www.bva.co.uk/about/canine.html and click on "breed mean scores"

Of course, any documented results such as this is only as good at the people and if for example, in a breed only one person has their dog scored then the breed mean score is worthless.

Best wishes, John