Please help - my 1 1/2 year old choc lab sometimes goes crazy on me and tries to bite me. He gets this strange look in his eyes and tries to snap at my hands and face. I've taken him to thet vet who said he is fine, that we just have "dominance issues." I am the only one who he does this with. It usually happens when he sees another dog or person that I won't let him go over to, and he gets a wild look in his eyes and jumps up and growls and snaps at me.

I Think you need to train him to perform another behaviour when he gets in this kind of situation - like asking him for 'sit' when you see something he wants. The biting is a kind of frustration and he's taking it out on the nearest thing because nobody is telling him what else to do.......

I have tried this, but it's more like he's vicious than simply disobedient. It's like I have a completely different dog on my hands -- like something snaps inside of him and he keeps trying to bite my face.

Sammy,

It sounds like a frustrative reaction more then an out right aggressive nature. You need to be firm with him and make him aware who is in charge when on walks etc. Labs do love other dogs, our yellow being a really friendly one who is constantly trying to get across the street to say hello! :p

Try going to some classes that will mix him with other dogs, the more they interact with other dogs, the less likely they are to find a real interest in them!

But as suggested when he looks as though he is going to have this reaction you need to concentrate his mind on something else, and or tell him to do something. When i am walking our two labs and they stop to say hello or are hanging around i tell them to " get on" and they associate this with my wish for them to move forward.

John, who is a lab expert :d may have some other suggestions as i am sure he has had similar situations, but at 1 1/2 years your lab should be under control and happy with your authority.

Regards

Mark

Hi Sammy, I saw this post last night but decided to sleep on it before answering.

It’s very hard to give definitive answers to cases like this on a board where we cannot see the dog for ourselves. Even the experience of the poster is not known so the “Reading” of the dog is open to debate. This is in no way a criticism of you but it does mean that any advice may be way off beam!

First off, by nature Labradors are not vicious. They are working gundogs and viciousness has no place in their job of work. In fact the opposite is in their job description! They were originally bred to work for man, to help handle the lines of the fishing nets for the Newfoundland fishermen. Later they were adapted to again work for man, retrieving shot game. Their gentle disposition making them ideal for handling the game. A vicious Labrador would make short work of the bird! From this it is easy to see that a truly aggressive Lab totally out of character.

This does not mean that a Labrador is a submissive dog. Some are but some are not, in the extreme!! My old Bethany was dominant to that extreme. She would push me to the very edge whilst all the time knowing that she would have to comply in the end! She could really give looks which could chill but we both of us knew that she would never back it up with actions. Life was a battle of wills from her birth to her death. She knew exactly where she fitted into the pecking order of “The Family Pack” but knowing and accepting are not always the same thing. Some dogs are the real masters of intimidation!

You say you have seen your vet and he says there is nothing wrong and that it’s a dominance thing. The thing is, it is doubtful that your vet has, with the exception of a physical examination had any more than a cursory glance at his mental state. So saying, without being able to see the problem, I’m inclined to agree with him (or her!)

No matter what some people say, dogs are basically pack animals. Modern thinking says that the leadership of the pack changes according to the needs of the pack. The leader of the pack during, for example, food scavenging, may not be the leader during the defence of the pack. This can lead a dog to accept that you are in charge at some times but that he is at others. Obviously not what we want!

If it was my dog and it wanted to go somewhere I did not want to go then I would just not accept it. Without kicking him or in any way hurting him I would just walk straight through him! Push him out of the way with my knee. The message I am trying to send down to him is that in that kind of decision he has no say. I’m not discussing it with him, neither am I open to any coercion. This is a lesson you can continue at home. When walking across the room, if your dog is in the way then slide your toe under him and gently push him out of the way. Dogs move over for humans not the other way around. Don’t make his life a living hell by waking him up just to push him out of the way but at the same time, he should make your life easier not you his.

Food is another thing you can use to work on. When you put his food down do not immediately let go of the dish. He is to learn that it is you that “holds the tin opener”. When this is accepted without a thought, then I move the dish. Only slide it a couple of inches. I’m making a point, not teasing the dog. I slowly progress to the point where I lift the bowl up a couple of inches without stopping the dog from eating. Finally I work towards taking the bowl right away then immediately return it. You never know when you may need to take something dangerous away from your dog so this exercise is important in its own right.

Of course, in a breed so numerically large as Labradors there are always going to be a few rogues so this can never be completely discounted but the odds are stacked against that being the reason in this case. By far the most Labrador temperament problems can be traced to dominance.

Best wishes, John

What a good reply John ! :)

Lucy

John,

Im sure you should be writing a book by now! :p

A good and thoughtfull answer ;)

Regards

Mark

One book is quite enough Mark! I found that hard enough work!! I'm an engineer not an author.

Never again :p

Best wishes, John

Thank you so much for your reply, John. It was very thoughtful and helpful. Unfortunately, I don't think that I'm getting the seriousness of this across. We practice the NILF training with our lab, and most of the time it works pretty well. But when he gets in a state like that, where he's snarling and snapping at my face, it's not something that I can just walk away from. I'm physically not able to because he snapping at my arm as hard as he can. It's very frightening and I'm beginning to dread taking him on walks because I'm not strong enough to control him when he gets like that. Perhaps carrying a muzzle around with me might be the answer.

I do thank you for your response. He's a great dog in nearly every other way (and I've tried the food thing. He just stares at me like he's saying, "Hey, what are you doing?")

hi sammmy......i just found this forum...first let me say i never minimize people concerns and i have seen the behaviour you are describing..it is symptom of the bigger problem part of which involves him thinking he needs to escalate to this type posturing ....hence we must have created an enviroment/dynamic where this occurs........but i will tell you we see more and more aggression in the chocolates even dogs with one chocolate parent...is it color-linked ??..partly but more so the choclates have been bred over here anyway just for the color.once you breed dogs just for color your gonna have problems.....if you really study the lab you will not find titled dogs coming from yellow to choc breedings but backyard breeders are doing this ad naseum..its becoming a global model for what happens when everybody and thier brother starts breeding armed with no knowlegde..........................................bottomline...you must get someone experienced to help you .it will continue to escalate.if you don't............was this dog aquried from a reputable breeder???...so much of temperment is heritable,time for a visit to his relatives i'd say....

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Thank you so much for your information. Our lab was a gift, so unfortunately I don't know everything I probably should about lineage. I do know that his parents were both chocolates, but I'm not sure about the reputation of the breeder. We've moved and no longer live nearby (a good 7 hr drive now), but I don't see why I couldn't call the breeder on the phone because we do have his papers.

I think there's the answer Sammy, no reputable breeder that I know of would sell a puppy that was a present, they would always want to meet and vet the owners themselves.

Hi Kelly

Welcome to Champdogs! :)

It is happening here in the UK also as Chocolates are becoming more and more popular so demand is met by breeding for the colour and money instead of the good of the breed and temperament. A subject which has been talked about previously on here.

I have had chocolates for nearly sixteen years and have so far been lucky in all the girls I have had through knowledge of what I am looking for.

You will see on the visitors Questions there is more or less everyday that soembody is enquiring about wanting a chocolate which saddens me as I can imagine people reading it rubbing there hands together thinking now there is a good way to make some cash :(

I do hope Sammy sorts this problem out soon and perhaps getting some professional advice may be the way forward.

Lucy

People on here who know me know that I have always been against the breeding of Labradors specifically for a colour. One thing it does is to reduce the size of the available gene pool. Chocolates have a certain rarity value and this has certainly given rise to some poor breeding. As Kelly says, people jumping on the band wagon with £ signs in their eyes. Not all by any means but certainly a goodly number. The thing we find is that by and large, the Chocolates are slower to mature and harder to train. Often the reason for being harder to train can be linked to a dominance problem. As it happens, My Bethany, who I mentioned on my previous post was out of a Chocolate bitch.

I do take it very serious Sammy when I read your post, it is obvious to me that you have big problem and as in any problem, the more that’s known about it the better to do something about it.

The thing to do when trying to diagnose and overcome a problem is to try to find as much about the problem. As I read your first post, it is when he sees something he want to get to and at the same time something you do not want him to get to. Is this a fair summing up? Is this a pattern in his behaviour?

He is now 18 months old, give or take a little. How long has this been going on?

Can you remember the start? Is it something which started at a trigger point? (A moment in time when you can say, “That’s when it started!”) The period in time does not need to be instantaneous; it could have a short build up period of a week or to. Or is it something which has no real start? It has slowly built up to a point where you realise you have a problem?

If there was a definite starting point can you remember anything, anything at all which may have been responsible at around or shortly before that time?

Is there anything else you can tell us, however obscure it might seem? It might well be totally unconnected but there again, dogs don’t always think as we do! (Be a lot easier sometimes if they did!)

Dominance can run from the slightly rebellious puppy who soon decides it’s not worth the energy to the extreme dominance bordering on psychotic! The truly mentally unstable dog is a totally different matter. There is rarely a logical pattern to its behaviour. It is possible to look for abnormal wave patterns using an EEC but few vets in this country have these facilities and would need to refer you to a vet college.

Sorry for all the questions :)

Best wishes, John

Thank you again for your response John -- I'm finding your advice VERY helpful.

To answer some of your questions:
He is 19 months old now, and he has been doing this since he was around 4 months, but when he was so little it wasn't a problem because I could just pick him up. He only does it to me, not to my boyfriend, and he only does it when I'm not allowing him to do something he wants to, which is usually go up to another dog or a person. It seems to come in waves. He'll do it a lot (say once every few days) for a few months, and then not do it for a few weeks. We make sure that he gets plenty of exercise by hiking and going to parks where he can off the leash, at least 3X a week, usually more especially since winter has ended. But it doesn't always work because sometimes it seems like something snaps inside of his head and he just goes beserk.

Both of his parents were chocolates, but I do know that his litter was a mix of black, yellow, and chocolates, so I don't know if this means that the breeder was just breeding for chocolates?

Hi Sammy.
As I said, I do not like breeding for a specific colour for the reason I said but I accept that a lot of people do breed for colour. In it’s self mating choc to choc does not necessarily mean bad breeding. To be sure of producing a chocolate puppy then both sides need to carry the gene and obviously if both are choc’s then both must carry the gene. We in this country have not in the past done much genetic testing for colour genes although a number of companies do offer that facility. My own preference for a sire would have been a black because I believe that leads to better pigmentation. But that needs a knowledge of what colours a stud dog throws and this WOULD point to an in depth knowledge of the breed.

It would be unusual for a psychotic dog to attack one person only. Given the trigger, any person on the end of the lead would normally get the same treatment (Assuming the person had been around the dog long enough for the dog to get familiar. Obviously if the person was new to the dog then the dog would be more interested in that person so the trigger would not happen for the dog at that time.) A lot is spoken about Rage Syndrome but true Rage is extremely uncommon in Labradors to the extent that I have never seen a case. In the retrievers it is more likely to be found in Goldens. So saying, one of the few dogs which really got stuck into me and meant it was a Labrador! But I still maintain that even that one was a dominance thing not Rage because he only did it once to me, never again. He found it did him no good!!!! After this spate I could handling him with no trouble. The difference between me and you in this instance was that this was the first time I had met him. There was no history of him trying to dominate me so when he found that I was a better dog than him he settled for the lower place.

Has he ever actually injured you? I mean bitten with the intention of doing damage? Or is it mainly posturing? A Labrador is a very strong dog as you well know and if he intends to hurt then you will be hurt! What I’m saying is, is he trying to use his size and weight to coerce you into giving in to his wishes?

Best wishes, John

I'm not sure if he's actually trying to injure me, although when he gets in a state like that he can certainly hurt me with his snapping and biting. I'm usually wearing long sleeves, but when I pull my sleeve up, there are a dozen little puncture bites in my arm if he's been in a bad state (but he's never drawn blood). It's hard for me to tell if he's really getting raged because like I said before, he only does it to me, so it could be a dominance thing. But I've never seen a lab get so vicious as he does, and it's extremely frightening. If he was not my own dog, I would be absolutely terrified (if that makes sense). The periods only last between one and five minutes, so they're very short, and I don't know why he will suddenly calm down, but he eventually does. If we're our way home and we make it into our apartment, he will suddenly get very ashamed and run into his cage and hide there because he knows that he's in trouble and not supposed to do that.

Sammy because the pedigree could be an important link if you dont get the info from the breeders let me know the parents and i will try to trace the pedigree back for you, i dont have 10% of the knowledge john does but i have not seen this only in a couple of black Labradors who become very protective of birds they have retrieved

How soon before the book comes out John

David

hi sammy.............answer me this will this dog down on command???....or heel??..does he come off-leash??.........if not ..its crucial that you change the dynamic...most dogs that bite are between two and four...he's headed that route.....he needs off leash training quick.......we use a revolutionary new tool called a pager collar i wonder if anyone over there uses them???.....and i am suspect that two choc's produce yellow.no one does that on purpose..i'd call the breeder and say ''what does the father do when he doesn't want to do something.....lack of tracability is inherent as are handler aggresive dogs...............

Thank you for your response, Kelly. I really don't have much knowledge about breeding, but it does make sense for me to call him, which I plan do once the weekend is over. I've never heard of a pager collar - what does it do? Our lab will listen and obey his commands (down, sit, stay) 100% of the time when he is home, but that drops to around 50% of the time when he's at the dog park. When we are hiking alone, he will always come when called, unless he spots a lake and then there's no turning back. I plan to enroll him in a training class that begins next month, so I am hoping that he will get more used to being around other dogs and people and still listen to his commands. He's a VERY friendly dog -- I've never seen him show even a shade of aggression towards another dog or other people. Even if another dog is hassling him at the dog park, he's more the type to run away then turn around and snap at the dog.

I can see where you are coming from Kelly and I think we both have the same opinion. The pager collar you refer to, is this the vibrating collar? I have heard of them but never used them. If it is the one I think you mean then I can imagine how it could be used to break into the thoughts of a dog which has its mind set on other things.

Sammy,
I feel you need to work on the control aspects. This in it's self would raise your position in his mind. Very basically, try to never give an order if you are not in a position to enforce it. Obviously you are on occasions going to have to but unless it is very important then it might be better to get yourself into a position to be able to enforce the command before giving it.

Every one will tell you that if you are calling your dog then you should use a happy voice but what if your dog ignores you? It's not performing a recall at that time, it is disobeying you and you are quite within your rights in telling him exactly what you think of him! (I find a bit of Anglo Saxon works for me! ;) ) The instant he stops and looks at me I change over to the happy voice, call him and turn and walk away from him. I'm going and if he does not come then he better find his own tin opener! (That’s the message I'm trying to get through to him.)

I take a toy with me when on a walk with a young dog. Something I can play with him with. I want to make the area around me the most interesting place to be. I want him to want to be there with me.

When I call him I pick my time. I know that just as my puppy has found an interesting place to sniff he is not going to come until he’s finished so I don’t call him. I wait until he has just finished and is looking around for something else to interest himself with. At that point I know he’s going to be at his most receptive.

All exercises which you teach your dog at home should, when learned, be practised when out. It is part of the 100% control at all times. Downs are always a good exercise. It puts you in a dominant position and your dog in a submissive position. Practise it when out in the park. As part of the NILIF the run is the payment for the completion of the exercise.

I don’t know if you go to a training club but it would be a good idea if you don’t. It gives you the chance to set up the things which are worrying you in a controlled way. The meeting of a bouncy dog should be quite easy to set up.

Best wishes, John

Thank you again for more advice, John. I know that I need to work on my training techniques because our lab isn't 100% reliable (or even as close as he ought to be). I try to remember to always carry food with me because he'll always stick closer to my side if he knows that he'll get a piece of food when I tell him to come. When he gets around other dogs, he'll often forget everything he's learned, or thinks that he doesn't need to remember.

David

We are getting there but a bit delayed as I hav not been at all well and so things unfortunately were not progressing. I have had some most welcomed help now though and so things are progressing.

All good things come to those who wait !! :D

Lucy

Hi John

As a newcomer to champdogsforum your fame eludes me but your answer to the chocolate lab problem impressed!

I'm very intrigued by reference to your book.

Is it already published? If so, what is the title and who is the publisher? Can you tell me a little more about the subject matter? If not gone to press yet can you tell me when you think it will be available.

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Hi I asked john to do a series of training tips for my site which is lab rescue we get so many needing advice the tips were so good that someone suggested john put it in a book john kindly dedicated the profits of book to labrador rescue as the main reason we get dogs in rescue is that people dont know how to train them and labs being the numerically largest breed thats bred every year we have big problems.
The book is going to print soon and we are most grateful to john because we know it will be a great book he has a wonderful way to put things over and trains through kindness and builds up an affinty with his dogs.I cannot put the link here but sure someone will then you can read yourself some of the tips which will go in the book.

Hi Elaine, I'm involved with gundog work and although the subject may not be to everyone's taste I believe that training is so important. Not what you train as much as the fact that you do actually train. I just figure that if you can get your dog using it's brain then you are providing mental exercise as well as physical exercise. That was the reason for the articles in the first place.

I'm just an ordinary fella who some say is past his sell by date and trying to give a little back to dogs who have supplied me with so much pleasure over the years.

http://www.helpalabrador.co.uk/

Best wishes, John

Hi John

Thanks for your response. Although not into gun dog training I am very much into dogs being taught basic good manners and any progression from there on in is to owner/handler wants and requirements. What interests me more than training per se is how training is done. I have had dogs for 30 years, all but one a rescue dog, and have considered all my best friends. So I was often averse to any jerk and pull methods and quite shocked when I furthered my beardie/wolfhound x's training to working trial level. I was told if he didn't immediately give up his retrieve article on request (I had not taught him this before, I had taught a drop or leave) I should force the article backwards into his jaws making it uncomfortable for him and he would then spit it out! I refused and seriously began to question just what the dog is learning when we think we are teaching and so began a long journey into existing methods and alternative methods of training and acquired a library of dozens of books!! Along the way I have rescued more dogs, I currently have 3, and was extremely upset by the number of dogs in rescue centres through no fault of their own. A lack of experience in any new owner invariably leads a large percentage of these dogs going back to the rescue centres sometimes more damaged than when they first went in. That began the motive for learning how dogs learn, what influences their behaviour and how to change those aspects we, as owners, find unacceptable. I will visit your web page and will wait eagerly for details of your book! Thanks

Elaine

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I have read most of this information exchange re the Chocolate Lab
From all the answers and resulting feedback from Sammy and the questions and feed back from John and the rest of the replies I do not feel this is a rage syndrome type situation or colour/gene problem.

Correct me if I am wrong, As far as I can deduce the dog is fine with Sammy's partner and the problem only appears in the relationship between the dog and Sammy? therefore I would tend to think that it is a dominance issue rather than a medical problem.

If it is a dominance issue then the dog sees Sammy's partner either as an equal or an Alpha, rather than Sammy who he sees as a subordinate and therefore has no right or position to question the dogs actions. This aggression appears to centre around Sammy telling the dog not to do something when she is out for a walk, does it happen also in the house?

If what I thing is true then you must put in place a Behaviour Modificarion program that will reduce the dogs Position and raise Sammy's stature.
The following may help.

DOMINANCE problems in dogs usually mean that the dog has got ideas above its station and is challenging the pack (the family) for top dog status. The majority of difficulties with dominance are man made and result from a dog with too many privileges. It is important to remember that there would be only one true pack leader per pack, with another one or two dogs waiting in the wings to take over one day. This means that when we choose a dog the odds are that we will get a dog whose natural position is from the middle to the bottom of the pack.
This means that most dogs are gladly going to accept us as leader without any problems and why so many people tell you that they have had dogs all their lives without any of this ‘behavioural’ nonsense being necessary!
Most problems arise from dogs whose natural position would be from the middle to the top of a pack being given too many ‘privileges’. You must remember that it is pack leaders responsibility to make the decisions. He says when to eat, sleep, play and hunt. Dogs are not supposed to approach him even to play, although puppies are usually excused from pack manners and get away with murder!

Dominant behaviour takes many forms. It varies according to breed and the natural character of the dog. It is not just a dog who growls and barks at you or refuses to do anything for you, it is also the dog who makes all the decisions. Obvious bad behaviour is the dog who growls at you when feeding or chewing a bone, or takes no notice of your commands. Less obvious is the dog who chooses when to do things: let me out now, let me in now, feed me, play with me, I’m not coming I’m asleep!

Either scenario means that you are not the leader, your dog is. There are owners who see a dog asking for things as ‘cute’ and it can certainly look that way sometimes. The important thing to understand is that by giving your dog too many privileges you are artificially raising his position to being above you. Some dogs will not stop at just making the decisions; they will gradually start to actually challenge you. This will show itself as your dog taking less and less notice of you and can result in your dog even physically attacking you because you had the cheek to tell it what to do!
There are a few simple rules to apply to make sure that you do not end up with a liability instead of a pleasure, but remember this list is not exhaustive and a clever dog will invent new ways of beating you!

· If your dog brings a toy to play with, ignore him until he goes away then call him yourself and play. Sometimes you must be the person who goes and gets the toy and starts the game. It should always be you who ends the game.

· Try to feed your dog after you have eaten. Sometimes take his food from him for a moment whilst he is eating then give it back, Gesture eat ie have a biscuit or wafer nest to his bowl and eat it as if it’s come from the bowl In serious problem cases, prepare his food then leave it out of reach whilst you eat to really reinforce who the top dog is. Make your dog sit whilst you put his food down. A clever dog may seem to be especially obedient by sitting in anticipation of getting his dinner, when in fact he thinks he is making you get his food by sitting! To avoid this teach your pet 'sit' and 'lie down' then whichever he is doing, pick the other one before feeding. If he pesters to go out or to be fed, ask him to sit or lie down for a few moments, then let him out or feed him.

· When going through a doorway, you must go first, preferably your dog should sit quietly, do not let it barge through., get a door that closes towards you and bang it shut if he tries to go first (making sure you do not catch his nose), he will think the bang and the door shutting is caused by his actions of barging through and will stop the action very quickly.

· Do not play any fighting, pulling, tug or mouthing games with your dog, EVER. Even a small dog is strong enough to cause serious injury, and dogs cannot understand the difference between how much pressure an adult can take, and how much a child can take. If your dog ever injures or beats you at any strength games, you are definitely not its pack leader and probably never will be again.

· It is important to teach your dog to give up toys, chews and bones to every member of the family. If your dog is not too keen or prefers running away to tease you do not chase after him. Get a very small titbit cheese is ideal and get the dog to ‘swap you’. The titbit offered should be very small, as the dog must not think you are giving him something better than he has already. Gradually reduce the titbits and give praise instead.

· Remember that height is a status symbol to a dog. If you must let your dog on furniture or your bed, make it by invitation only and get him off immediately when he is there of his own accord.

· If you need to chastise or punish your dog, never bend down to him. Try to remain upright and lean over him slightly. But remember violence begets violence don't hit your dog all it does is make this type of situation worse. If you are trying to stop your dog from doing something physical, like jumping up at visitors, it is better to leave a lead on him to enable you to correct him without having to bend or fight with him physically.

Please don’t let this make you think you can’t enjoy your dog ,you can. But no dog is a pleasure if it is out of control or potentially dangerous. The rules above are not necessarily things you need to do always, it depends on your dog and his personality. But all dogs should have these rules used sometimes just as a reminder. If you ever feel that your dog is getting ‘ideas above his station’ use the rules strictly for a couple of weeks until you see a change, then gradually relax them. Come back to them often and have a dog that is happy and content and who knows his place.

Please do not ever take a chance with an aggressive dog, no matter how mild the first challenge seems.

BREEDING
It is amazing how many people still breed from dogs with dodgy temperaments. I can only assume that some people are basically greedy and see their dog a source of funding. If you breed from a dog who has an inclination to be nasty, kill cats or bites people and dogs, this is likely to be passed on to the pups. The puppy’s basic attitude to life is inherited and although all aggression problems cannot be based solely on poor breeding, many people tell me that their pet is behaving just like its mother or father. Remember that breeding is a privilege. It is only the top male and female in a Wolf pack who ever breed. In fact they stop all other bitches coming in to season. If you breed from your pet you are giving it status and sometimes this can change your pet forever. Male dogs particularly can become almost impossible to walk publicly as they are constantly looking for a mate. You may find that your male dog starts running away, defending his territory and fighting other males. He may also start to challenge you and think he is in charge of the household pack. Bitches can get very stroppy with other bitches, when out, and can try to take over at home. Neutering after breeding does not often solve this new confident behaviour. I know a number of dogs rehomed after breeding because the dog could not be the same family pet again. Think very carefully before breeding from your dog and never breed from a dog with problems. Remember that most breeds need some form of health test before breeding,

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HI Sammy

Are you the same lady who posted a while ago about her chocolate lab?

If you are the same (and sorry if you aren't ) it was suggested that there may be a medical problem, such as fitting: did the vet think about this, or just give him a cursory once-over? It's just that if he was my dog, i would want to get this totally ruled out with tests before approaching the problem from a behavioural or training angle. I wondered why the vet said it is just a dominance problem, how did he know if he didn't do any tests? If he did do tests, do you know what he did?

I understand he is usually and mostly like this with you, but if you are the same lady he has also behaved this way with another dog walker....if this is the case, then it could well be a frustrative behaviour as has been mentioned and it may possibly be solved with training. Are you in the UK at all? as someone may be able to help or suggest a trainer they feel is good.

I also wondered if he is still on the prong collar? As this could explain the behaviour t0 some extent......a rottie was noted to have "aggressive" behaviour towards his owner and once the collar was removed was completely improved, although if it is due to the prong and the behaviour has become learned, it will take more time. It's difficult if he dislikes the halti.

Is he good around the house and obedienct there?

After the walk where he has behaved wrongly you say he runs off to hide when you get home - has he ever been punished at home for this behaviour, or does he do this of his own accord? If the latter then it may be a clue - he may even be feeling unwell afterwards.....

Again, apologies if you are not the lady I refer to from before :)

Lindsay

Hi all, my 1st post here so bear with me! My 5 yr old yellow lab (Finn) has started (over the last 6months or so, growling at myself and my wife. 1.) This happens when we feed him. If he is eating and we walk near him/past him he growls and has on occation beared his teeth! 2.)when we approach him when he is in his bed. He will submit by rolling onto his back and if we smooth him he will growl. 3.) he has also started growling and barking at people he can see walking past the house or poeple that walk into the house.

We have recently had our 1st child and do not want this behavour to continue for obvious reasons....

Can anyone give me any advice or reason to why his behaving like this. It is out of character for him to do this as he is very obideant and loving dog.

Any help will be appricated! Thanks Jon

Hi Jon - and welcome to Champdogs!

You say that Finn started behaving like this over the last six months ...how old is your baby?   I think that the two factors are related.

How have you trained him up to now?    We may be able to help you, once we know how/what training he has had.

The growling and barking at people going past or coming into the house is most definitely related to his anxiety/guarding the baby.