if i breed my black dog to my yellow bitch, will the litter be a mixture of black and yellow, or will the puppies have black and yellow markings? if they are the wrong colour can i still register them with the KC?

thanks : )

The colour yellow in Labradors is carried as a recessive gene. If the black dog does not carry the recesive yellow gene then all the puppies will be black. If it does carry the gene then something like half the puppies will be black and half yellow. Of course it gets more complicated if there is also a Choc gene in there as well! Labs do not produce part colours although there is the occasional throwback and the breed standard does allow for a small white mark on the chest.

As far as the KC is concerned, providing both sire and dam are registered then the KC will register the puppies.

Best wishes, John

John

Out of interest came across a lovely yellow lab the other day. Full pedigree, registered, etc.

She has a small black eyepatch, just wondering if this happened very often or if it is a fluke?

Jayne

I used to walk a chocolate and tan full pedigreed Labrador when I was a child!
Bec

It does happen but it is a throwback rather than a standard state of affairs. My Lucy was what these days would be called Fox Red but she had a fair sized white patch on her chest. She was out of a yellow bitch put to a black dog.

I know an excellent working line where a large percentage of black puppies will have a white toe or even a complete white paw!

Incidentally I can take my Anna's line back to 1877 which considering that the KC did not recognise the Labrador until 1903 means there are dozens of unregistered dogs in her past and there is actually a Flatcoated Retriever called Stoneleigh Quality who was born in 1915! Remember, in those days interbreeding between the retriever groups was allowed.

Best wishes, John

I suppose that just goes to prove that whenever we breed a litter of anything, a throwback can occur from ancestry years beforehand.

The best laid plans of mice and men as they say!!! :-D

I must admit I do find the whole genetics thing fascinating to say the least.

Very occasionally we will breed a Grizzle and Tan Border that will have a small black patch somewhere on its body. Or as I saw not so long ago in a litter (not one of mine I hasten to add. LOL) A pup born with a white mark running up from its belly over its chest and into a white blaze over the top of its head!!!! Odd thing about that one was that it was later found to be a real genetic mismatch, it was born with no ligaments in its front legs.

Jayne

As you know doubt know, but a lot of the younger people on this board quite possibly don’t know. At the time of the war so few pedigree dogs were registered that after the war there was a shortage of registered pedigree dogs. The KC agreed that providing a dog looked like the breed it was claimed to be it could be mated to a genuine pedigree (registered) dog and providing the puppies looked right they could be registered under the "Pink Form" scheme. If those puppies were then mated to registered dogs and bred true to type they would then become pedigrees in there own right! There is a documented case of a dog being used at some time as a Flatcoat, a Labrador and a Golden retriever! I guess that the same type of thing occurred in most breeds during that period so it's not surprising that at times we get a throwback!

Of course, some breeds were artificially split anyway. Norwich and Norfolk terriers, Cocker and Field Spaniels, and of course a whole range of terriers from north of the border! Not counting the BSD's which the KC in their wisdom tried to arbitrary (and abortively) split a few years ago! For years these breeds were only streamed into their relevent breed after birth!

Best wishes, John

It is also very well known in Border circles John, that Borders, Bedlingtons and Dandies all originated from the same stock.

This explains why occasionally we will get a soft top knot on a BT that is almost impossible to strip out.

You are also correct about the Norfolk and Norwich, even though they were split as a breed a number of years ago, you still get prick ears appearing in Norfolk litters occasionally and drop ears in Norwich.

Plus of course every pedigree as you well know is only as good as the person who writes it!! :-D

Don't know whether to take your comment as a compliment or not John :-) are you classing me as one of the oldies in time on CD or in years. :-D :-D :-D

Jayne

Old in experience Jayne! When it comes to age I think I can give you all a few years! ;)

Best wishes, John

Nice of you to say so kind Sir!!!

:-D :-D

So are Field Spaniels basically liver Cockers, only a bit shorter on the leg? Every day I learn something new!
:)

Cockers and Fields were originally only split by size and could at one time be registered as size decreed! :)

So can you get Fields in the same colours as Cockers, or has that been bred out?

I'm not sure on acceptable colours, not up on the breed standard I'm afraid but a friend of mine many years ago used to breed them and I was indocterinated into the history of the breed ;)

Could not find the UK standard but the AKC standard for colour of Fields is:-

<<Black, liver, golden liver or shades thereof, in any intensity (dark or light); either self-colored or bi-colored. Bi-colored dogs must be roaned and/or ticked in white areas. Tan points are acceptable on the aforementioned colors and are the same as any normally tan pointed breed. White is allowed on the throat, chest, and/or brisket, and may be clear, ticked, or roaned on a self color dog. >>

I would guess the UK standard would be similar

Best wishes, John

Jayne black marks on yellow are classed as mismarks they can also have splashes of black or splashes of brown on blacks splashes of black on chocs etc.. the mismarks can usually be traced back to certain dogs in the line

Fascinating subject isn't it Glenys.

This was a beautiful yellow lab only spoilt by the mark, but of course her owners adore her so that is the most important thing.

Jayne