I have a 10 week old rottweiler cross with a collie, strange combination I know. He's been great up until a few days ago where he is becoming aggressive when eating. He went to bite me the other day when I had to take a corned beef tin of him (I was worried he would cut himself), then today he has really gone for my three year old daughter when she went by him as he was eating some toast she had actually given. What should I do! HELP!

Food possessiveness is a bad habit that must be stopped now. When you feed him, do you just put his bowl on the floor, or do you (as I always recommend to my puppy buyers) hold it at his chest level when he eats? He needs to be taught that you are only going to give him food (the most valuable resource) and not take it away from him. I always tell my puppy buyers to put food into the bowl as the pup eats.

Thanks for your reply. All day after this episode I have been holding his bowl while he eats and then taken it away and then given it back again, and I've let my three year old do the same, he's not gone to bite me. he is however really trying to show his dominance by not doing as he's told and growling and biting at everyone, I do hope he is not going to be vicious. Is this just a phase or is it maybe going to be his temperament, I am getting worried.

The important thing is to be consistent, so that he develops the trust and confidence in you that you need. (I wouldn't be taking his bowl away at all while he's eating yet - that may be keeping him doubtful about you.)

Iv'e only just taken his food away today whilst holding his dish to try and make him see that he will get it back, and I have rewarded him when he's not gone for me.

What i done from the off was made sure everyone in the house put his food down and gently stroked him whilst he ate also i made them take the bowl away half way through his meal and praise him then give it back just a thought

Thank you for your reply to my question. I have been holding his food at his chest while he has eaten and it has been fine and I've let my daughter do the same. I must admit I was not told to do this when I had him and I honestly didn't know that is what you were supposed to do, I just hope it's not too late. He is 10 weeks old so maybe there is still time to get him out of this bad habit.

Plenty of time he is only a wee baby:D

Hi,
Happy bunny, and anyone else who has been doing this 'give food then remove it' trick, please STOP NOW!

Your dog, any dog in fact, does NOT have the mental capacity to work out teh you are demonstrating that you will give the food back!
What he DOES understand is that you are challenging his right to the food, and as such, if the dog is sufficiently annoyed at this, he/she will eventually take his anger out on the weakest member of the family, usually a child.

If you must mess with food, do the four bowl trick. Put down four bowls, a good distance apart (not too far though) and then walk round, putting a piece of food in each bowl and move on when the dog eats it to the next bowl.

You can also try dropping food into the dogs bowl as he eats, one peice at a time, that way he will see you as teh source of all food.

If and when your dog acheives a good level of training, and self control, and u have sucessfully trained a leave adn wait command, then u culd, if you have to, tell your dog to 'leave' and 'wait' in the middle of a meal, adn go put something extra tasty in the bowl. But, NEVER remove the bowl from teh dog, it is unnecessary, and counter productive!

Em (sorry for the rant, but i know dogs that have bitten children very badly, because this was what the owners thought was the best way to train their dogs!)

Obviously i didnt state clearly (sorry) i didnt mean take the bowl away and leave nothing there i was putting down some tasty tidbit and removing the bowl just so he knew when his bowl was taken it wasnt a bad thing and he has alway been fine with that so when he has a childs toy accidently in his mouth anyone of us can take it away without a fight on our hands :) and i do apologise but there is no need to rant as i suspect you are no dog expert as many of us are not

Is that word for word from the perfect puppy :D

Bit harsh.

I have always taken all my dogs food bowls away, as and when I choose, and never had any problems at all. And bones, and toys. I have also never had any problems with my children feeding my dogs, and I've had big dogs and small (currently a great dane).

I very much think it depends on the dog, but I feel that people who have problems are those who do not mess around with their dogs food early enough (as a young puppy), and teach the dog its place. My dog knows its food comes from me - and depends on me for it. And a dog that growled over its food would absolutely NOT be tolerated in my house. My dogs have to work for their food, sit, leave, wait etc etc - and for titbits. But I will put their bowl down, and take it away as much as I choose!

Horses for courses.

Chloe :)

Well said chloe if you cant trust your dog to have his food taken away then theres a problem:)

Absolutely! But the dog has to learn that trust - it doesn't happen automatically.
If the pup has it's food taken away (for more than a second) all the time, that trust may not be learnt, especially if the breeder fed the pups all from one large dish so it had to compete. If each pup had it's own dish from the word go this problem would be unlikely to arise.

From my little knowledge of behaviour I have read the above with utter horror. Leave the food alone!

Once it is down leave it down.

make sure that you and your family eat first, preferably where the dog can see you.
What I might suggest is that before you put the food down, settle your dog down and show him his food bowl. then in turn take a biscuit and everyone of you take a bite before you put the food on top of the dogs food. You will be showing him that you have had your food and that it is his turn to when you have finished. Thus hopefully reinforcing the fact that he is below you in the pecking order.

Then leave him in peace to eat his food.

For heavens sake until you are sure of this dogs temperament and made sure that he is sure of his position in the pack, keep your 3 year old away from the dog while he is eating. There have been enough cases in the press of attacks on small children(And adults) and would hate for you to have to go through that!

I certainly don't have the time or inclination to get the family to sit and eat a biscuit in front of my dog!

My dogs sleep on the bed, eat before us (whenever is convenient to us actually), sleep on the sofa, go before doors in front - all the things you are not supposed to. I believe that far too many new puppy owners are so obsessed with following all the "anti-dominance" advice that they don't enjoy their new puppies.

Whats wrong with doing what you want with the dogs food? My dog eats delicious, raw food...but he wouldn't mind if i took it off him and ate it in front of him. He understands his place. If you have a puppy from 8 weeks old, and you teach him where he stands from the beginning then you will mould his temperement yourself (of course, purchasing your puppy in the first place from a reputable breeder). All this "behavioural advice" really is getting to the extreme these days. Its a dog... treat it as a dog and everything will be fine :)

We have always taken food, bones, toys etc away from our dogs. Our trainers advised us to do this and they are very experienced and I respect their judgement. We have had no problems whatsoever with doing this and our dogs have NEVER growled when we have been near their food etc

Daisy

Edited - the food bowl is only lifted up for a few seconds while I praise the dog. I do take their bones away and give them back the next day -are people saying that I shouldn't be able to do this ?

Absolutely right that you should be able to take anything away from your dog, Daisy. I'd expect you to be able to take anything away from mine, too! Our dogs have learned that people are trustworthy. The puppy in this particular case hasn't learned that yet, and in fact it sounds like he's starting to have doubts regarding his food.

To overcome this I (if he were mine) would not try taking his food away (confronting him) yet. I would hold his bowl close to him while he ate, and let him see me add more food. At his age he's on 4 meals a day so there's lots of opportunity to practice that! Only when he's confident with that would I lift the bowl away from him to add more food and then return it. After that it's a small step to being able to take the bowl away completely without him worrying.

I always hold onto bones while they chew them, too, so that they learn that hands near food are nothing to worry about.
:)

johny b
i have read the same book the dog whisper by jan fennel i think. my dog sam did not like my daughter at all, he would tollerate her but they were far from best friends. i found by my daughter feeding him and taking a bite from a biscuit, before his food was put down eventually resolved many problems now he will let her sit and stroke him without him getting up and moving away.
i am currently without a dog and i think it is very important for the dog to realise where its position is. how people do that and what works for them
is an idividual thing
maybe ive read to many books in prep for my new boxer pup who knows
em

There is nothing wrong in any of it i dont understand why your so shocked IF you teach your PUPPY from the off that you take stuff away then the dog will grow to be trust worthy and people seem to do things as they read in a book i had dogs as a child and there was none of this go through a door before the dog ect and they werre the softest dogs ive ever known

RUBBISH

I agree JG - its also worth pointing out that aswell as removing my dogs food, I hand feed him and make him work for it too.

I have never ever had a dog growl at me, or mine over food or a bone.

Chloe you are very lucky then.

Some dogs will naturally challenge authority, or havent been taught from an early age where their place is in the pack. I was not advocating that every person should do this but merely that in this individual case that the owner reinforce the dogs position with a few tried and tested methods.

My dog too sleeps on the bed, eats when I feed her, before or after me, and I am lucky in that I have never had a minutes problem with her.

It is obvious to me that this dog is having problems accepting(For some reason) its position within the pack and is challenging the authority within the pack. Would you like to have on your concience the fate of that small child should the dog turn? Not to mention the obvious fate if the dog does turn.

You are saying that if you had a problem dog, which I hope you never have, that you wouldnt spend time trying to recitfy the matter by any means at hand. If you didnt have the time to help the dog learn its position within the pack by what methods would you cure the problem?

Most of us are lucky in that our dogs never challenge their place, but when they do surely we should be open to trying things that have been proven in case after case to work to help both the dog owner and the dog itself be happy with its place in the house.

Fair comment, I wasn't commenting on this particular case of the poster, but more in general - I should make that clear.

I agree with you that if the dog has started doing this, then its a whole different ballgame - I believe in prevention as opposed to cure I guess! What I would say though is that if my puppy started growling at me at ten weeks he would be taken out and put in isolation...and if he continued to do it he'd get a slapped backside! Any older than that, I would consider it a serious problem, and no, my kids would go nowhere near a growling dog at any age!

good points - well made ;)

In my limited experience there are very very few naturally dominant dogs - a good 90% are perfectly happy to be subordinate.

It is easy to unsettle a puppy or older dog by confusing it and giving mixed signals. If a dog is certain that you are never going to do anything nasty to it, because you have never bullied it, it will let you do anything. But you have to earn the dog's trust. A young pup who has maybe had to compete for an essential resourse (food) all its life is not going to stop this learned behaviour overnight! The owner must prove that there is no need to compete - the meal is secure, and isn't going to be removed.

Only when this bond of trust has been formed can you start 'proving' yourself superior.

tHIS IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING FROM THE VERY BEGGINING AS A PUPPY TEACH HIM WHEN YOU TAKE THINGS FROM HIM ITS NOT A BAD THING TO DO THEN YOU WONT GET IN THAT SITUATION

Yes, Happybunny, but going by what was written in the original post, this puppy hasn't been taught this from the very beginning (ie by the breeder) so the owner has to go back a step before making the next step forward!
:)

hE IS TEN WEEKS OLD SO START NOW ITS NOWHERE NEAR TO LATE

The dog shouldnt challenge you if you teach him from the off that you are the boss!!!!

to theemix well said the pup will not understand what you are doing except stopping it from eating please dont tease. also is this pup being fed enough( four meals ). and has it been to the vets for worming, if not then i would take it. best of luck jackie

sorry for the rant, like i said before.

I have however come across a great many people, who in all other situations are my intellectual superior, who have just never thought to think like a dog. It is INCREDIBLY easy to think that your dog thinks the way you do, but it just isnt true.

I am certainly no expert on dogs, but i like to think that my dogs and the dogs i have known over the years have taught me a lot!

Perfect Puppy???? I actually havent read it (though yes, i should!!!!) common sense is what i use, in general.

Em

Hi Em

I guess my point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat (so to speak), and in some cases with dog training (in my opnion) its better to prevent than try to cure. I agree that removing a food possessive dogs dinner is not a good idea, but I have found it to work wonder when practised before a dog becomes possessive over food

Chloe :)

yES I THINK THAT IF ITS TAUGHT FROM THE OFF AS SOON AS YOU GET HIM HOME STROKE HIM GENTLY WHILST EATING AND HE WILL REALISE YOUR NOT GOING TO STARVE HIM MY CHILDREN CAN TAKE ANYTHING FROM MY DOGS WITHOUT AN OUNCE OF AGGRESSION AND THE ELDEST IS 14 I TAUGHT THEM ALL FROM THE BEGGINING :) NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE BUT THIS IS HOW I DO THINGS

Oh yes, i totally agree with you there Chloe, there are as many ways to skin cats as there are cats needing skinning imo!

And yes, the best way to train a dog, imho, is to prevent any bad behaviour/unwanted behaviour before it has chance to occur!!!!

However, the original post was about a pup who is already behaving badly around food.

When i first got Dill, he was, and still is, an awful theif, but because when ever i take something from him (no matter what it is, even another dogs bone/bowl) i swap it for a treat, he doesnt have a problem, and i have never ever had any of my dogs growl at me.

I guess i just get a little wound up with all this 'oh yes, u HAVE to tke ur dogs food off him to show him u are boss thing' an other similar ideas.
At the end of the day, our dogs are just dogs, and we have to respect them, as well as love them and train them. I personally would not be impressed with anyone who took my dinner off me (id stab them with a fork!!!!!!), so i dont do it too my dogs! But, i know that i CAN if i have to!

Em,
(ps, Happybunny, please take off caps lock, it is rude to shout, if you wish to make a point, put single words into caps, or use the 'bold' setting')

Hi i couldnt help the caps (sorry) my pc is playing up and the caps button locked and as for stating about people saying you must take a dogs food away i didnt say you must or have to i just said you could :)
not getting into a debate about it thats how my dogs learnt and thats how i do things

Hi,

I agree with Jeangenie, teach him that when you are near his food, this means more food. What do you feed him? Maybe he is hungry?

I would suggest you get the "Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey, it's the puppy owners bible and will help you a lot.

Don't let your three year old get too close while he is eating, until you have solved the problem, she probably won't understand and could undo all the work you are going to put in.

Do you know what the parents were like?

manda
X

We have had three dogs and with each of them we have always from them being tiny puppys taken their food away from them for a few seconds and then given it back to them. When giving titbits they are made to work for them. Such as telling them to sit, down, wait or whatever. I have allowed my kids to do the same whilst i am watching and have been taught that they will be the ones who wll be punished if they tease the dogs.

We have had no problems with any of the dogs doing this . I must say though that with my having such bigs dogs my kids were never , up to a few years ago, left alone with the dogs and so i was always in the room if the dogs were in the room with the kids. This was looking back very hard work but i would not change it for anything as i think that kids are more unreliable than dogs .

karen

Gosh, I never realised I would have so much feedback, LOL.

I have not taken his food from him since, but I do hold his food at his chest whilst he eats to show it is me who is giving him the food and its not magically appeared. He has not growled since this so maybe it was a passing faze. He is one of 10 puppies (first born and largest I might add) and it makes me wonder if he is a bit food possessive because of competing for the food the breeder laid out. What do you think? I have had him from 4 weeks would he remember the other pups? I think sometimes he treats my three year old like another pup, he wants her to play all the time and it makes me wonder if that was why he went for her when he was eating. Any comments welcome?

The fact that you had him so young means he hasn't learnt the normal social behaviour, bite inhibition that his littermates and mother would have taught him. Other dogs are much better at disciplining a pup appropriately so that it learns it's manners without becoming fearful.

Why was it that you had the pup so young?

You will really have to work on socilisation so that the pup is well adjusted to other canines and people. It is perfectly possible, but takes more work than if you had him at 8 weeks.

A friend of mine has a dobermann bitch that was part of a litter that were destined to be drownened due to a marriage breakup, and the husband got this pup at 4 weeks to save it from such a fate. She has lived with other dogs since she was five monthsa and is pretty well adjusted, though was always more into people and now at 13 is a very grumpy old lady with the other dogs if they get in her face.

I had my puppy so young because there were 10 pups and the woman who I had him off was having to feed them herself as the pups mother was poorly. When I had him though they were feeding themselves. I think the woman had had enough of them and wanted rid. I must admit I thought they were too young to be taken from their mother and their environment, but she was determined to be rid of them so if I hadn't have had him somebody else would. But I did think to myself at the time that this could cause problems with socialization etc. I just hope he turns out okay, he's had a bit of a growl today as I've gone by his food again. This is my worry at the moment especially with a three year old.

I don't quite understand
How can he growl at you when you go by his food, if you are holding his bowl at his chest level?

If his food has been put on the floor because I have other things to do etc, and then I go by him he growls and will bite, but if I dish his food out and then hold it he will eat it but he is wary. That is what I mean't

I know it's hard when you're busy (I've reared pups with small children inthe house, too, so I do understand the difficulties) but it's very important to nip this problem in the bud. Each time he feels he has to growl is a step backwards. And if you carry on walking past when he growls, he will think the growl has driven you away, and that it works. :(

If you cannot hold his bowl for him at every meal (and my thoughts would be that you would need to do this every time for at least a fortnight), then if you simply must put the bowl down, don't go near him till he's finished. Shut the door on him and go into another room. If this isn't possible either, if he growls when you go past, stop. Stay exactly where you are and don't move away until he is quiet.

It's vital that you get this sorted while he's little - he's going to be a big strong dog when he's grown.

Good luck.

do you tell the dog off when he growls or snaps? A short sharp NO! or BAD DOG and a stamped foot or other loud noise is usually enough to curb bad behaviour, especially if followed by being ignored which they hate - in this sense he will learn that you are 'boss'. I've never had trouble taking food/toys off a dog - they wouldnt dare, to be frank. I've never had to slap tilly yet and dont hold with it (someone posted about a smacked bum though i think they were joking?) a quick tap on the nose shocks them enough to know they're being bad if you shout no at the same time.
Keep your little girl away from the dogwhen hes feeding ,at 3 i wouldnt think shes old enough to really understand what constitutes annoying or teasing the dog.
He needs to know he cant snap and growl at his family under ANY circumstances.

Just playing 'Devil's Advocate', here, Tilly's mummy! But do you seriously mean that there are no circumstances where a dog is allowed to growl at a family member?

Not even if the dog is feeling ill or in pain, and someone is teasing it?

Remember, a growl is a dog's second or third warning that something is happening that it does not like. Then comes snapping, and finally a bite.

jean lol
i meant providing all is well, of course. No-one should be allowed to tease the dog but if they do, you're right, it is understandable that the dog will growl in these circumstances. Providing the family realises the dog is ill, they should know to leave it alone, so it becomes their responsibility.
i guess i meant more along the lines of aggression over food/toys/whatever else, in the context of the post.
sorry miss ;)

My word, have just read through this thread and the thing that struck me most was, what hard and difficult work it seems to have a puppy these days. Also I am not at all sure I would trust any one who wrote a book and decided to call it 'Perfect Puppy' fancy giving people the impression that there ever was such a thing, no wonder new puppy owners think they are failing.

It is much harder nowadays to have a dog whose behaviour is deemed 'acceptable' by the public.

Normal canine behaviour is forbidden (dogs can't do anything that might scare people) so the old relaxed ways of raising a pet have had to go out of the window.

agree with this jean it's so irritating when people look with horror at your dog running around the park actually having the cheek to enjoy itself! You know the looks, same as people who veer towards the other side of the path when you're walking along with your dog, usher their kids away from the big nasty dog, and just generally act as though their life is in danger. I've found this more with a black and tan dog than i did walking a white dog of similar size... odd!
The other extreme is people who allow and even encourage their young kids to lunge at dogs they dont know trying to stroke it and throw their arms round its neck. the mind boggles! I've frequently told off strangers' kids in front of them, explaining that they should never touch a dog they dont know until they've asked the owner. Left some red faced mums in my wake but dont care!
i guess most of us know our dogs would be ok with the child, but there are some dogs, unfamiliar with kids or frightened by their sudden movements, who may snap or try to escape their collar in fear, hurting themselves or the child.

It is the hardest thing I have ever had to do and it was a rude awakening. Iv'e never really been bought up on dog's so I am really having to learn a lot advice. I feel as if I do not know anything at all.