Hi,

Does anyone have any general advice about dogs and seizures. My little girl has just had her second grand mal in one year (G/A induced most likely - see post on Liberty's teeth post for her Goldie). History is unsure, been checked thoroughly for all usual ( hyperthyroidism/cushings etc) all blood work and serum levels fine, age is 11 1/2 vet now back to idiopathic epilepsy (dont agree deep down as age onset so late) BUT, what I am after is some general advice on what to do afterwards, or during a seizure, I know all the usual stuff like stay calm( but dont know how to do that) dim lights, remove external stimuli etc, but is there anything else anyone could add for me - I didnt know for example food is a good idea post-ictal if they want it.

We are sleeping in lounge with her tonight and just spent almost 24 hours staring at her every little movement whilst trying to act normally - thought I had made decision to have her pts, but vet advised waiting and seeing, so feels like a reprieve but I am plain terrified again and trying not to let her pick up on that.

Maybe someone has an epileptic dog and share any noted "triggers" or commonalities with me - ANYTHING would be helpful.

Thanks so much
B & T.

Hi,
I have experience of an epileptic dog (as have others on this forum) and it is certainly not necessarily a death sentence. Idiopathic epilepsy usually starts between 1 and 3 years of age, so on the face of it, this is unlikely with yours...but whatever the cause, the fits are just as frightening to the onlooker. My dog started fitting at 15 months, following a GA - the sedative used (can't recall the name offhand, but it's known by its initials - FPA?) is a common trigger.

Edit - I am a durr - the sedative is ACP.

My dog would get very thirsty after a fit - we just let her drink what was in the bowl - some get very hungry, and some food will do no harm. During the fit, just make sure she is not in a position to hurt herself (get her off the chair/away from the top of the stairs etc), talk to her calmly and quietly (yes, you can do it- panic later) and reassuringly, but keep out of the way of her mouth - you may get hurt accidentally.

My bitch was fitting about 4 or 5 times a week, sometimes 3 times a day, but withmedication has been (touch wood) fit free, healthy and normal for the past 5 years, and the drugs have been slowly reduced to almost nothing.

Justbe reassured that, during the fit, she is unaware of what is happening - you are the one suffering. She will feel dazed and groggy when she comes round, but by then the worst is over, and your job then is to talk calmly to her and help her relax.

Hope this helps.
:)

As Jeangenie says, this does not sound like Idiopathic epilepsy, the age is wrong. My Lab started fitting at around 18 months old and continued to her death at nearly 14 years old. She lived a perfectly happy life and was never a problem. Is there is a possibility that it could have been brought on by injury or poisoning? Either of these plus some illnesses can bring it on.

There is no reason to put a dog to sleep just for epilepsy. (although there could be complications which could change that) Nor anything which really needs a change of lifestyle by you.

I can understand how you feel. When my Bethany went epileptic it seemed like the end of the world but believe me it’s not! It is an illness just like any other and YOU CAN COPE! It got with Bethany that she knew when a fit was coming on and would come and find me to let me know. She would be down for around 15 to 20 minutes and almost always went down a second time a few minutes later. The fits tend to follow a regular pattern of in her case, 3 week cycles and if she missed one which she frequently did then it would not reoccur for around another 3 weeks consequently it was often 6 or even 9 weeks between fits.

Your vet will know doubt talk to you about such things possible medication and what to do if it develops into Status Epilepticus but the main thing I can say at the moment is don’t worry. You can live with it!

Best wishes, John

Canine Epilepsy Network

Hi B & T

Following on from JG's post, I was rummaging around CD's and came across a chap called Snorrie, who often posts here. He also has an epileptic dog and also links to the Canine Epilepsy Network. I'm afraid I can't do links, but I'm sure someone will be able to help out.

If it's ok with admin, I'll post you his e-mail address?

Hope this helps

liberty

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to me - all was useful. I would like to clarify though, in case I have given the impression that at the first sign of horrific fits I just decided to pts, that isn't the case. I have been agonizing over this little girl for the past year when the first GM happened (it is likely but not conclusive that there have been 4 GM fits in total in the past 18 mths and minor focals on almost daily basis, sometimes so slight I almost miss them myself.

The worry I have and it is a deeply personal one is that we both work, I have to work to afford the flat I am in with a garden, although she is left alone only for 3 hours each morning and then my husband comes home to check on her for half an hour at lunch, then alone for another 3 1/2 hrs in the afternoon, I supposed I am terrified of her having a seizure/dying alone and afraid and disorientated, I almost would rather pre-empt that than risk it.

It is very unlikely to be epilepsy, as you have picked up, I.Epilepsy is so rare to begin at approx 10 and almost unheard of with this breed - this was my vet's original opinion then she referred us to Royal Veterinary College at Christmas and all they could find were slightly enlarged kidneys, nothing bordering on abnormal enough to be concerned about and the advice was while she is still stable without fits, leave her be, but have serum levels re-tested again to definatively rule out Cushings. If my vet was convinced these were epilpetic seizures, I am sure she would have prescribed the phenobarb by now.

It is interesting to note that she had the first seizure approximately a year after her 2nd ever G/A (spayed)
The second one we saw was on the first humid hot day of June last year and we had a total upset to our home routine with an in law to stay and in a deep sleep after excitement/ heat was the first one. The third one was also one we didnt see at night, we were alerted to her crying and pacing at 5 am one morning and this is the 4th, the other night , 24 hours after tooth surgery, whilst asleep. ( near a flickering TV in a darkened room and a photo was taken of her last year while she was asleep, wondered if that indicated epileptic trigger?) Apart from stress, possibly heat, I am wondering if slightly abnormal kidneys and dehydration might have played a part - it is so difficult to tell.

Thank you again so much, we really appreciate it.
Kindest Regards

B & T

I have never found the TV to be a trigger in the case of my dog. The other thing from your post is that epileptic fits almost never happen during the time of high excitement. It is usually when the dog is quiet and relaxed and as such often during the night when there is no one around. At one time amongst a committee of 7 at the dog club 5 of us had epileptic dogs!

I can’t help wondering if the GA resulted in brain damage. Any interruption of oxygen to the brain, possibly due to a temporary stoppage of the heart could be responsible. Unlikely I must admit but possible.

Best wishes, John

If it's any reassurance, vets generally won't prescribe medication for a dog fitting as seldom as yours. A pleasing control is when the number of fits is reduced from several a day to maybe once a month, so although it is very scary (believe me, I do know!!) I would just treat your dog as you would normally until anything else shows up in blood tests or whatever.
:)

Liver or kidney disease is a potential trigger for seizures, so it would be sensible to keep an eye on her kidneys, and make sure she doesn't become dehydrated and put them under stress.

When she was younger, did she have a habit of snapping at imaginary flies? It is believed that this can be a form of petit mal fitting.

Wishing you luck.
:)

thank you again guys - it's been comforting to be on here and read your feedback, I am sure you will understand we are like cats on hot bricks, every movement, flicker of an eyelid etc, I just can't seem to relax at all and I know that realistically if it does happen again there is nothing i can do except to comfort and protect her until it is over and then comfort her some more, but it just doesnt stop the panic I feel everytime she looks " not right".

It is interesting to note what you say - I had thought of stroke, brain damage and the possibility of oxygen deprivation at the time, I remember as soon as she came round, my vet called me and promised me the delivery, take up and recovery from GA was as nice and smooth as she could hope, there were IV fluids to support her kidneys as the pre-test showed high end normal and the kidneys have been a concern since the R.V.C ultrasound in December as mentioned previously. I know there are liability issues around what vets will or will not say, but I have to believe my vet at this stage.

I have also noted these last 24 hours that when she is looking at me, during waking up from a nap, she is not looking straight at me as she usually would ( direct eye contact), its like she is gazing slightly off centre over my shoulder, I know she is seeing me and I have done some simple tests to check on her vision and motor skills and all seems well.

She hasn't fly bitten from a youngster, but she will not rest if there is the possibility of something on or near her.

She will be having a full check up on Monday, I did not think it wise to bring her to a busy vets the day after ( consulted via phone through the night ) - all I need now is suggestions on how to relax and try to enjoy her again without panicking about every movement is pre-seizure.

I will heed the advice re: kidneys as I am convinced myself the answer lies in the kidneys or early signs of heart failure personally.

You guys are very good - thank you so much

B & T

PS) Does anyone have any opinion on MRI scanning at this stage - both consultants told me they didnt thik it was the best place to look - they seemed unconvinced this was neurological in origin, but I am still not sure I have done the right thing.

I really could not tell you if an MRI scan would show anything or not but if this involved another GA then I think I would leave well alone.

If there was any trouble during the GA I would have thought your vet would have known. Of course that does not mean that they would know there was permanent damage, just a problem which they have successfully overcome.

As far as living with it is concerned, you need to forget all about it. Looking for signs only makes it harder for you. Believe me, you can always see signs if you look hard enough even when there are none. I know because I've been there! Live with your dog, enjoy your dog and look upon every day she’s around as a bonus. I had a 12 year bonus with Bethany and that still was not long enough! I'd have her back this minute given the chance, epilepsy and all!

Don’t worry about the fits, if they are going to happen then they are going to happen and there is nothing worrying is going to do to change that. In time it will get easier in time as you get more familiar with it.

Best wishes, John

Excellent advice, John.

She may never have another, so don't wreck your lives (and hers) by worrying about what may never happen. Life's too short - enjoy it!
:)

Indeed it is excellent advice and I am trying to take it! My vet and even my G.P have said the same today, but I just wanted to thank you again for your support- it's been invaluable to me at this time , a big thanks to you all - now I am off to snuggle with a certain little basenji.................. :)

B & T

Your more than welcome. As I said before, I've been there and so I know exactly how you feel.

Keep us posted on how things develop :)

Best wishes, John

Happy to help. :)
(Hoping she never has another.)

My daughter has had epilepsy on and off since she was 1 and she's now nearly 34!! So I've had plenty of experience. Regarding the MRI scan, she's had two which have revealed nothing. They're usually done to ascertain whether there's a focus in the brain for the seizures i.e. scarring, perhaps, which could be surgically removed. However, for many people nothing shows up. I hope the dog does well and settles down OK. At least she won't be complaining about not being able to drive.....;)

Cathy.