Hi everyone

I have been reading this forum regularly after getting my puppy GSD who is now 7 months old, and have got some good advice. I would like some advice on if to get my GSD male neutered as he shows aggression towards other dogs, and he went for my Mum's blue merle sheepdog at the weekend. He is a very boisterous dog, but is reasonably well behaved, mischevious sometimes though like all puppies are. Everytime he sees a dog when we are out walking he barks his head off and tries to snap at them, I don't know if this with fear or being aggressive. His mother was a working police dog and wondered if this had any bearing on his behaviour. My vet advises me to have him done soon as she said this will settle him down and stop the dog to dog aggression.

I would appreciate any help and advice.

Is his aggression aimed only at male dogs, as if it is sex driven this will be the case. If he is bad with all dogs, because he lacks social skills or is afraid castration may make him worse.

You can try Tardac, which is a chemical mimicking the effects of castration. This will probably show you if it will help to have him castratred. If you are planning to do so I would want your boy to have finished growing first.

Hi

He generally just barks his head off at any dog but has only really got close to my Mum's dog and then he lunged at him, and my Mum then took their dog away as they were afraid of ours attacking him. I walk along a local canal everyday and everytime he sees a dog he has a good bark at them whether male or female. I apologise to people and say sorry he is just a puppy, but as he is so big they just look at me and grumble and walk off. It is very embarassing!!
My vet said also because he is very barky and quite nippy, he is trying to show who is boss and getting him castrated would bring him down a peg or two.
Where would I get Tardac??

Hi,
The vet would be the one to see about Tardak.

One of the problems in this sort of situation can be that the dog, whether nervous or otherwise, can be barking to make the other dog go away. And of course, it works every time - the owner of the other dog mutters and takes their dog out of reach! What has been known to work (I've tried it and can vouch for it), if you can set it up, is when your dog barks at another, they stop and don't go away until your dog is quiet. If you can get your dog to sit and look at you, all the better.

I managed to stop a horrid little JR rushing out from his house and across a busy road to challenge my dogs by simply standing still until he moved away. (He was lucky my lot were very tolerant!)

:)

Hi
What happens though when my dog lunges at their dog, he is so strong now he nearly pulls me over. It does sound a good idea but the people around here just look petrified of my dog.

Can't you set up the situation with your Mum and her dog? If you and your dog are standing by a fence, you can tie your dog's lead to that, so you won't be pulled over. Then, if your dog starts, you can thoroughly confuse him by walking away from him - when he looks to see where you've gone you can praise him for looking away from the other dog. When he looks at you and is quiet, you can go back to him, and your Mum can move her dog away.
:)

Hi

Thanks for the reply but I will have to try and get one of my friend's dogs to do that as my Mum lives in North Wales and I'm in the North West. Sounds a good idea thanks, just hope it works. I would really like a well behaved dog and not have to get stressed when out and about with him.

How did you deal with his behaviour? Severe discipline letting him know you don't approve of that type of behaviour. Growl voice 'No'. Most young males try their macho ideas out at some point but have to be dealt with immediately and consistently.

Hi
Ummm, the best thing u can do, i think, is to work on improving his confidence levels, making it clear to him that not only is it unacceptable to behave in this way, but it is also totally unecessary as well.
If you only prevent him from doing it, physically, then that doesnt take away the reasons behind it, and may well cause him to behave worse if he can.
If you can improve his confidence, and show him that there is no need to be frightened, or aggressive towards other dogs, then you are well on your way to solving the problem.

Tardak is a good idea, you might need several goes at it though, to get a good idea of his character with out the hormones.

Be very carefull, i have a neutered dog here who is fear aggressive towards other males, and that is 99% down to me getting him neutered.

Em

Hi Em,
Did your dog get worse after you had him castrated? (just interested to know). My last dog was castrated and always hated other male dogs - got worse as he got older to the extent that he would attack them for no apparent reason (the other dog would not even be looking at him or doing anything). Some of my doggy club friends reckoned if he hadn't been castrated the problem wouldn't have been so bad. So, needless to say, I am now having second thoughts about getting my present dog castrated, because at the moment he hasn't got any sort of aggression problem. I just figured it would be better for health reasons, but perhaps I should wait and see, or try this Tardac in about a year's time - is it safe to use or does it have possible side effects?
Hilda

hiya, sorry i did get back to this sooner.

Rocky was a pretty confident lad, until he was neutered, happy, fun, somewhat ott with other dogs, but not aggressive, just bouncy and annoying. I got him neutered as he was forever wandering off in search of bitches.

However, although it did indeed solve the sex-hunting, he very rapidly became frightened, and then aggressive towards other dogs.

It is a confidence thing, definately, as he will ONLY pick on, and try to dominate (ie, stand over them, paw on shoulders, pin to the ground or snap and growl) smaller dogs, submissive dogs, or totally non aggressive dogs.

Any confident dog that knows how to handle itself, and isnt afraid of a scrap, he will leave it alone, pretends he cant even see it.

He is also fine with bitches (either they like him, or he runs away an hides! but he never challenges them).

Hope that helps you.

Em

Hi Em,
That's interesting to know! I'm wondering now whether I inadvertently made my dog behave the way he did by having him castrated. With him it was the same as yours, he would go for dogs that showed no aggression, etc. (ok with bitches). When a dog once went for him he actually ran a mile! So for the time being, I think I've decided to keep my present dog as entire - he's so friendly with everyone and other dogs, that I would hate to do anything that might change that. The only thing I worry about is if he should get cysts or prostrate problems - I'll have to check with the vet what sort of symptoms I should be looking out for, just in case.
Hilda

Hi

We told him off immediately, but my Mum then took her dog away from us she was afraid he would attack him. When he barks at other dogs when we are out, I always say No to him, but each day he still does it. There are so many people around here though who walk their dogs not on a lead, and I'm so scared he will get another dog if they come too close to us. On the odd occasion when we have been out and he has gone past a dog and not barked or lunged at them, I praise him and tell him he's a good boy.

I am all for neutering but as a measure for population control not behavioural problems. I can attest to hundreds of dogs which came through sanctuary and were neutered. It depends on the dog and cause of the aggression, some settle down after a couple of weeks, others don't. Also, I find the younger the dog when neutered the better the results as in lowering of aggression/testosterone level. If I were you I would joind obedience/socialisation classes asap and then decide with the help of a good dog trainer what the best for your dog would be.

Taylor

Hi Taylor

Thanks for the reply. I am thinking of joining a socialisation class I just hope they work, and hope he does'nt go for someone elses dog. I'm sure I'm not the only person out here who is having this problem with their dog.
Sometimes you don't know if vets mention castration just to line their pockets, or if they are genuinely thinking of the dog.

Yes, you will have to shop around a bit. But you should ask the people who have attended such a course whether they were satisfied with the trainer or not. Also, what are you feeding your dog on?

Taylor

Try recording him when he's being aggressive so that you can take it home and analyse the tape without all the other things going on, that way you can study his body language and get an idea of what he's feeling at the time. If he is feeling frightened, then neutering will NOT work.
It sounds like your vet is giving out pretty dodgy behaviour advice, ask her what training she has in behaviour for her to be so sure that his problems are down to wanting to be the boss.
If you want to try Tardak, that's an option, but I would work on trying to deal with the problem from a behavioural perspective before you try anything. Surgery as a cure for a behaviour problem should not be the first course of action, it's not reversable.
If you don't feel confident enough to deal with this yourself, or you think the aggression is serious, then get professional help, if your dog is overpowering you now, this is going to get out of hand very very quickly as he grows older and stronger. Try getting a headcollar (attach the lead to the headcollar and the normal collar for security) which should give you more control over him.
Good luck with it,
Jo

I agree if you do not intend to breed your dog it is wise to neuter as they do wonder off in search of bitches and spray in the house ect not for behaviour problems as it doesnt change them but it doesnt make them worse either they are and grow to be what they are sorry just my experience as i indeed worked at the rspca for a while a long time ago

Your comments amaze me, I live with intact males and never ever has one of them sprayed urine in the house or run off looking for bitches. But I do, of course, look after my dogs, by not leaving the front door open or not allowing them access to the outside and reasonable intervals.

We all look after our dogs i was stating what could happen and if your not breeding then it makes no differenceit calms some dogs (not all) some it did mine all three of them but they were done early and as for them being not as confident it made no change in mine they are as strong willed as they always were i was just stating my opinion as is everyone:)

Sorry can't agree with you, have just had a dog PTS who has suffered all his live from the effects of being castrated at the age of 13 months, you just can't generalise.

Hi,

From what you say his behaviour is like, I very much doubt castration will be the answer. It sounds like he just has no manners and bad social skills, I feel that castration at this age with a dog such as your, could cause more problems in the future.

I would suggest hang on until he is at least a year to do the castration, but in the meantime work on him with his social behaviour and manners training.

I suggest you get him a headcollar, either a Gentle Leader or even better if he is lunging and nipping, a Halti. You will need to introduce him slowly to these, as many dogs don't like the feel and the restriction of them.

I also suggest you get some training discs or get a rattle can and use this as a behaviour interupter when he behaves like that. Make sure you have plenty of VERY tasty treats and use these as a reward for when he is good with other dogs.

You will need to start with a big distance between you and other dogs and slowly get closer, you may even find that a clicker will help as well.

Good luck :)

manda
X

Hi

I bought a halti the other day and yes he does'nt like it. I did take him for a walk with the in-laws alongside our canal at the weekend, and we passed a few dogs and he was much better, he still tried to bark at the other dogs but with the halti on I felt I was more in control of him and just kept on walking with him. Hopefully things will improve this week as he gets used to it.

As for the castration I am still confused, there are so many different responses on here.

Thanks for all the advice though.

Hi,
Have you tried putting the Halti on him to feed him? We did that with ours and she learned that nice things happened in a Halti!!
:)

Do what yiou feels right all dogs differ mine was the same and none of the training gimmics worked not one but a few weeks after they were done a different behaved dog (as i said they are all their own personality)

I'd just like to add my voice to those who think that surgery is not the first answer to a behaviour problem and also explain that one of the reasons they are telling you to wait, if you do decide to castrate your dog, is that it delays the closure of the growing plates and as a result, you will have a dog who is taller than he would naturally have been. A big dog like a GSD doesn't really finish growing before 14 - 15 months, so unless you want to make him unnaturally tall, you should certainly wait until after then to castrate him. I assume you are not in any case going to let him roam free, in search of bitches :-)
I have a male whippet who is frightened of other dogs, having been twice attacked and very badly injured and I don't think I shall ever be able to get him over it but my solution has been to walk where - or when - we don't meet other dogs. Castration would not help at all and as others have said, would only make him more frightened.
Good luck.
Caro

To your dog what is happening is exactly what he WANTS to happen. I'll explain, your dog see other dogs as rivals, he barks, they go away, now he has you all to himself again, see my point.
Its the start of dominance, he doesn't want to share you with anyone else animal or person. If you haven't already started, start training, let other people take him out and feed him. In other words, you establish who's the alpha male/female, (this should be you). Let people in your household share the responsibility of dog ownership. Don't forget though, he is a guarding breed.
Neutering will help but do it sooner rather than later. How do I know all this, I'm a behaviourist.
Good luck.

David,
It may not be dominance at all, but rather fear. If it is fear (different cause, same result - bark and the scary thing goes away), castration could make things worse.

I agree early neutering will prevent aggresion and dominance getting to out of hand and therefore the dog will never have the desire to be aggresive towards other dogs ect

The GDBA (who need their dogs to be 100% stable) won't consider castrating a dog until 9 months at a very minimum, and preferably later.

I wasnt talking about people who need their dogs stable im talking about every day people in general if you want them castrated then have them castrated the choice is theirs not ours iwas just adding my opinion :)

I'm just puzzled about what sort of person might not need a dog to be stable...

Having your dog neutered doesn't alway work, it's only 50% affective, Some dogs are like that with other dogs, my brother has a staff of 14 months old (male) he goes for every dog he sees, but yet he is a peoples dog so friendly with people, my brother takes him out when he knows it's quite and there are no dog owners out with their dogs, my Staffy Leo is great with other dogs, but if any are aggressive towards him, he lets them know whos boss, but then Leo gets a bad name just coz he's a staff and people think that they are all staffs are vicious because of the bad press that they get , gets on my nerves.
Julie

You said earlier that you were worried that your dog would attack other dogs if you attended socialisation classes. You shouldn't worry, classes are made for aggressive dogs as well as more tolerant dogs. The trainer may decide that your dog needs to wear a muzzle if he/she thinks the dog is too bad i'm sure. At my classes we have had several dogs that go for other dogs and within a few weeks they were much more tolerant and all the growling and grumbling had stopped. My instructor likes to get these dogs sat a one end of the hall with the dog focusing on the owners treats. Through getting the dog to focus on you it's mind is taken off of the other dogs and then it can slowly build up its own trust of other dogs. As he is still young i am sure there must be something that you can do.

My advice on this is to DEFINATELY take your dog to a good socialisation class, and to consider trying out Tardac, to see how he reacts to the drop in his hormone levels.

The other piece of advice i can give you is to be VERY careful of people who claim to be behaviourists, and give out online advice, without seeing your dog!

Em

Hi

Thanks for your reply. I enquired about socialisation classes today and mentioned about how my dog was, and the lady said don't worry about him and bring him along next week. So should be fun for me!!!

Great stuff, sounds like you will have fun, just remember to take lots of very tasty treats (liver or cheese are good) and relax!!!! :)

manda
X

Well i read that staffs are the most soppy dogs with kids and their owners maybe im wrong but ive seen many staffs and i tell you what they are so well behaved on and off leash:)