My dog is a 16 month old border terrier or should that be terror. I have returned from my daily park walk and now realise that my dog will have to be exercised on the lead unless I can find a way to help her. We have 2 problems. the first is ball stealing. She is fast and can sniff out another ball before I can see it and will she let it go? Not a chance. I tried various ways of training her at home and found that totally ignoring her worked as she realised the game was over. However this does not work when we are out and I spend about 20 mins a morning trying to get her to drop someone else's ball. She will ignore her own, someone else's and even treats and I will only be able to retrieve the ball if I she gets tired out and I creep up on her and yet at home she will drop it at my feet. I do tell the peroson whose ball she has stolen that I am going to walk off and ignore her but they never seem very happy!!!Most people now know me and will pick their balls up when they see us coming. The second problem is far more serious and that is her jumping. Again I have tried various options at home including squirting her with a water pistol and ignoring her and she no longer jumps up at any of the family. Others though are a different ball game. She is totally unpredictable and can ignore 5 people but will then jump up at someone else and I'm most concerned as she can jump very high. Today, I got a severe telling off from two ladies after my dog jumped up at them in thier finery. I shout at her and always put her back on the lead and take her immediately home once she has jumped up but realise that this is not enough and she just cant be trusted. I think she will spend her life on a lead which would be terrible as we have no garden and she needs the off lead exercise as she goes like the wind. Are there any other border terrier owners who could offer me any advice. I'd be most grateful as I dont know if she will grow out of it or needs something extra from me so that we can work the problem out together.

I'm not very experienced yet but I have the same problem with my lab puppy ( a bit younger at only 5 months old)
She jumps up at people on walks as well.

My trainer suggested I keep her on a horse lunging line. these are very long so while no ones about your dog could have some freedom and a good run and then if you see anyone you could pull him in.

Would work better in an open area and where it isnt too busy

I'm sure there will be other suggestions from more experienced owners and I'll be reading them as well

Good Luck

That sounds like an idea worth trying. She used to have one of those thin type extendable leads but would take off then almost decapitate herself which is why I bought her a shorter thicker one which incorporates a harness to stop her pulling. Having said that, anything would be worth a try as she is the only dog kept on a lead in our park and whilst I am happy to do it to protect her and me from being reported, at the same time it feels criminal to reduce her exercise. It feels like a lose lose situation. many thanks for your suggestion.

While he's on the lunging line practice his recall when other people are about (is easier with a lab because they're so greedy) and then maybe in the future he'll be able to come off completely!!!

She sounds exactly like a very normal Border Terrier to me, she loves people, she loves balls etc. etc. So how is she to know that someone elses ball is a no no and if she sees someone she ikes she is greeting them by jumping up. Miine will still do that when someone arrives, although they know better than to actually touch the person, they just jump around on their hind legs in sheer pleasure that someone has come to see them.

To be honest with you not having an enclosed space to train her you are going to have a struggle, maybe finding a training class which is held outdoors, so the situations could be simulated and corrected would help.

Can't imagine who was prepared to sell you a Border pup when you have no garden, they are bundles of energy and full of the joys and one daily walk down the Park is nowhere near enough for them!

The were bred to follow a pack of hound and would have no difficulty in doing 25 miles per day if fit. So what you have got is a pup who has an excess of energy building up.

Well I'm so glad I turned to this board for some friendly advice. As usual you've gone off at half cock and made me feel worse than I did this morning. Firstly, I have had my dog since she was 8 weeks old and chose her when she was only a week. Before that I spent 8 months investigating the breed so I am fully aware of her needs, hence the friendly advice bit. Secondly, I refer to her daily walk to the park ie she has a daily walk in the park. This is not her only walk!! We have at least an hour in the park, an hour in the afternoon and another hour in the evening every day although why I am justifying myself to you, I dont know. She is only crated overnight and I devote myself to her needs. Your comments are offensive and I have had more than enough abuse for one day. As you have borders yourself I was hoping for some constructive advice like how you cope with the jumping etc but instead, nothing. Perhaps someone else would be kind enough to point me in the right direction. I tried the only training class in the area but was not happy with the way the dogs were treated. Before someone else gets the wrong side of the stick, may I also point out that my dog doesn't only get 3walks a day but goes everywhere with me. If I'm out, she's out.

Pizbuin
have i missed something as i cant find any nasty comments (or have you done further posts that I have not yet read ? )
Regarding your issue of the trainer have you looked on APDT site as they bring up the trainers in your area . Not everyones training methods will suit every dog owner so I agree you need to find one thats right for you .
It is worryng when your dog jumps up as we are trying to sort this with our Staffy pup. Most people are generally ok about it but we always have to be alert when out on our walks - when he is older he will be so strong - so I do know how you feel . Its the people who say "o its allright" when you tell your dog off who are the hardest because you are telling your dog off and they are saying its ok and makin a fuss of him which is totally conflicting
Good luck I hope you recieve the right advicefor your dog
Lesley

Sorry, maybe it was just one negative comment too much today but I certainly felt that one of the replies was on the smug side to say the least and the' I can't imagine who would have sold you a border terrier.. etc' was just one too many. We all know how we would like to bring our dogs up and it's the same with children, everyone has their own ideas, morals and boundaries but we all have to get on and respect other people's way of doing things. thanks for replying and I will look into your recommendations.

I meant nothing offensive by my post, but was stating the fact that pesonally I would never sell a Border puppy to anywhere that doesn't have a garden, as they are a very active breed and need free running most of the time to keep them sane. I would remind you that in your post you said her daily walk in the park, you did not mention the other times she is out and about. I could only comment on what you posted and am not a mind reader.

I did explain to you in my post that what she is doing is perfectly normal and if the first training class you found didn't suit then find another one.

By the way I am talking from years of experience of the breed I both breed show and love them!!

I said in her daily park walk but let's not split hairs here. I was merely asking for advice in how to prevent my dog from jumping. You say that yours continue to do so but do not actually touch the person. I would have been interested in knowing how you got to this stage given your experience rather than what I construed as a negative comment about both my breeder and myself. It came at a time when I needed help and I may therefore have over reacted.

Hi,

Training classes will probably help, but what you really will need to do is use a long line (lunge line might be a bit heavy for a Border Terrier) and make a point of playing with her and training her around people playing with balls :) Try and find a toy she would die for, maybe something that makes a noise, cause being a terrier, she should love noisy toys, this will also attract her attention.

Also I am sure no-one meant anything nasty in their postings, but good breeders do get very possessive and protective about their breed, I know I do. I always think that anyone who gets a Bearded Collie, either working or show bred, should check with me first....silly I know :D but many people involved in their own breed see the bad things, like all the ones that come on rescue, ones which have come from puppy farms and the ones who have ended up wrongly matched to an owner.

Please don't take offense to anything said, we are all really friendly doggy people and maybe thats the problem....we worry about the dogs too much!! :)

manda
X

this is excellent advice and I have today spoken to someone in the park who has a lunge line and will be going out to purchase something similar this weekend and a squeaky toy although I have been told previously that terriers can get the squeak out so will use it for attracting her attention only. many thanks Manda.

Having just read the other thread you have started I have now taken offence at your remarks, in no way am I smug nor am I snottynosed I just happen to know the breed extremely well.

This is the last time I shall be replying to your posts, and that is because of your reaction, there may have been a lot of ways I could help you, as I have in the past helped other with problems with my breed, but I'm afraid that is out of the question now.

What you will find if you read enough of Champdogs is that the written word can very often be taking wrongly and in this case I believe thats exactly what you did.

I replied to what you had put in your posting and that is all I could reply to.

There does seem to be a spate of new or relatively new people on the board at the moment who ask a question then try to shoot the person who answers Lady D. There is one who takes every opportunity to have a little go at me. Quite frankly I just settle for not trying to help them again! We seek no reward for the help we give and I make no apologies for having a chuckle at a post from time to time just as people sometimes have a laugh at what I write. Any one who does not like it can do the other thing.

Regards to you, John

Cheers John

I'll keep smiling :-D

Lady,

I understand why offense was taken at your comment with regard to questionning who would have sold a border to someone without a garden. It certainly is a lot easier on the owner of active breeds to have a garden, but I hope that you do not always exclude someone simply because they do not have one. Or exclude someone that may have a garden too small to provide the exercise needed anyway. Clearly, as in this case, there are other ways to make sure a dog has enough exercise and stimulation.

Small breeds, like borders, can get a lot of exercise just running around a house. My Cairn zooms around my house with her squeaky toy at top speed until she flattens herself out exhausted. She also gets long walks. I have a garden, which she does not yet have free access to - but the garden is certainly not necessary for her to get enough exercise. And my own experience with gardens is that they are used more for digging, chewing, squirrel hunting, bug hunting and watchdogging than they are for sustained physical exercise.

Stacey

Sorry Stacey but you have got me exactly right, there is no way would I ever consider selling a Border Terrier puppy to a home with no garden!! What you say about a garden is exactly right they are for digging, chewing, bughunting, watchdogging, all mental stimulation, I am not talking about sustained physical exercise I am talking about what is good for the pup or dog.

You have only had the experience of the last 7-8 months with a Terrier (a yorkie does not count as a terrier), whereas I have had the last 15 plus years of living with and breeding them, and I'm afraid I know what can happen when a BT's normal exuberance is restricted, they are not Toy dogs, they are (as it says in their breed standard) essentially a working terrier. The majority of BT's that come through Rescue, with which I am involved, are because they have picked up bad habits through boredom and then their owners cannot cope anymore. In no way would I ever put one of my precious pups into the situation of that possibly happening to them.

I saw the result only a few months ago of an 18month old BT being restricted in socialisation, stimulation and exercise, it ended up with him being PTS because he started to bite through frustration.

I am not necessarily talking about physical exercise here I am talking about their mental stability.

Regards

Jayne
xxxx

In no way is this aimed at how you are bringing up your Cairn. It is just a statement of my opinion and experience.

Have to agree with Dazzle here, Borders do not do well restricted, they can develop problems that are not disimilar to Border Collies that are kept in an unsuitable environment.
Dawn.

Agree with you, Lady D.
However nice the people are, if their living conditions aren't suitable, they don't get one of my pups. No slight on the people - they're welcome to try again when their circumstances improve.
A dog needs somewhere to go outside when necessary. Even kenneled dogs have an attached run.
:)

Jayne,

First, I know you have the best interests of your borders at heart. However, here is someone asking for advice who it turns out takes her dog for lots of runs, exercise, brings her everywhere she goes and I bet the particular pooch in question has more exercise and mental stimulation than most - garden or no garden. I certainly agree with you that boredom is a huge factor, for any breed, in bad behaviour of all types. So while you as a breeder may have developed certain rules, which I am sure are based on experience, there is always the exception to the rule - which in my view this case sure looks like one. I recognise that when you are parting with your precious pups that it is not only easier, but less risky for the pup, to always stick by them.

"You have only had the experience of the last 7-8 months with a Terrier (a yorkie does not count as a terrier), whereas I have had the last 15 plus years of living with and breeding them, and I'm afraid I know what can happen when a BT's normal exuberance is restricted, they are not Toy dogs, they are (as it says in their breed standard) essentially a working terrier. "

You've jumped to a conclusions about my experience with dogs. My Cairn puppy is not my first Cairn. I used to be active for many years in All Breed Clubs and Cairn Terrier club, know many terrier breeders. Yorkies are terriers, they were bred down in size but they still have all the characteristics that they were bred for in the first place. Where a Kennel Club then chooses to classify them is not in any way relevant to temperament. Nevertheless, without doubt I bow to your expertise with borders.

Regards,

Stacey

I was going by the information you gave in a previous posting, where you said:

"My first terrier - in heritage if not in breed classification -- was a Yorkie. Before her I only had a GSD, they were like night and day as puppies."

Yet again an example of where the written word can be taken in the wrong context!!!

But I will repeat again, and am not trying to offend anyone, not all terriers can be dealt with in the same way, and different breeds need different environments. In the job we do which is grooming, you would be shocked at the amount of dogs that are in the wrong environment for their breed, which strengthens my resolve to do the best for my puppies.

Yes you are correct in that Yorkies were originally ratters, but they in no way can be compared to a Border Terrier and its needs, they have been bred for generations now to be lapdogs and not ratters. A Border has not they are still capable of working in the way they were bred to.

To be honest with you, it terrifys me that they are becoming so popular, with registrations increasing at a steady rate every year, because that is the way that we will loose some of the breed characteristics, that I love in them. I personally average 5-10 puppy enquiries a week and I can tell you, that a fair percentage of them have not investigated the breed, they have just seen one and thought I want one! They are also becoming a very popular breed with the "puppy farmers" easy to produce and easy to sell!

That is the reason I am so protective of them.

Jayne

Hi Jayne,

Yup, with regard to the written word, it is easy to take something out of context. I am no Spring chicken. I have had a number of dogs after the GSD and Yorkie in question. Come to think of it, I forgot I had a Boston Terrier before that for a short while. A spur of the moment purchase by my boyfriend at the time, a huge mistake by him, and a really shameful example of someone who should never have had a dog. But, pet shops will sell to anyone with cash or a credit card that clears.

My Yorkie, BTW, was a terrible example of her breed with regard to the standard. She was a puppy mill Yorkie. She was so big and tall that my first Cairn used to like to tuck her head down and try to walk under and topple the Yorkie. She never managed to do it, but she never did give up trying. My Yorkie was a very able mouser - and did a good job of destroying many a wall trying to scratch her way through the plaster to get at them. The house I lived in at the time was overrun with mice, not a nice situation for me - great for my Yorkie. In the Winter I often had to drag her in from the garden, ice having built up under her chin and on her legs - all because she spotted a mouse moving under the dry leaves underneath snow cover. She was in no way a "lap dog" and in every respect with regard to her temperament a terrier. The Yorkie breeders I knew I think would agree, and the other Yorkies I came to know, would disagree wholeheartedly that Yorkies have lost the terrier temperament.

I noticed the Border registrations and they do seem to be hugely popular now, with good reason I am sure. But as you say, it often means that puppy mill and ignorant home breeders trying to make some quick cash will breed them as well.

Stacey

I think what you have said about your Yorkie really is the crux of the matter Stacey :-D

Would she really have been happy without the fun of a garden and what she could find in the garden, and how many people would have put up with her scratching the walls after mice :-) She sounds lovely and to be honest a totally different kettle of fish to the yorkies we groom, who have lost every vestige of terrier spirit and are thoroughly spoilt lapdogs, carried everwhere, never allowed to be a dog. But then they also went through a popularity surge here a number of years ago, maybe that is to blame for it.

Spring Chicken I'm not either :-D. and although I may bark a bit I don't very often bite unless provoked. LOL

Regards

Jayne

I went to 3 seperate breeders before choosing my dog who is now 16 months old. All of them knew I had no garden. Whilst as a family, we would all like a garden including my daughter, it was not possible to have it all. I decided that as I do not work, which was the pay off for no garden as we decided to downsize for extra quality of life. that I would be able to give a dog the stimulation it needs. She is a happy and content extention of our family. She is hardly ever crated, always comes with us wherever I go including all of our holidays and is played with each and every day when not out walking. She had never chewed a single thing in our house except the odd bit of toilet paper.I know of dogs that are kept indoors all day whilst their owners go to work and I am sure that you would not give one of your pups to them either even if they had a 150foot garden. All I wanted was a reply to the question I posed as I was concerned that my dog's excercise would be restricted considerably if I had to keep her on a lead. We don't live in a perfect world and whilst I can see that you have the breeds interests at heart, I was not asking whether you would let me have one of your pups so didn't expect your opinion on this point. I hope that clarifies the matter. Many thanks to all of those who have replied and given me helpful advice.

As you say <<<we all have to get on and respect other people's ways of doing things>>>>
Breeders are individuals, who have their own ideals about who should/should not have one of their pups. If you ask advice then the answer may not always be what you would like to hear, and that happens in all walks of life. I don't think anyone intended any offence, just advice. :)

Good luck with your pup

liberty

I was seeking advice in preventing my dog from stealing balls and jumping up. Nothing other than that. This is an excellent website and one I have used and recommend on various occassions. All I was seeking was advice and have now received what I was looking for from various sources. I think on the whole people are wanting to impart their knowledge but I have received a couple of private emails from people agreeing with the tone of some peoples responses in the past which is a real shame.

Hi i have a 14 year old border terrier and she used to be a little swine for jumping up at strangers whilst out walking when she was a youngster the worst case being a really posh lady with a cream coat . We were walking down by the river and poppy had been paddling then spotted the lady and headed straight for her and left her autograph(2 paw prints) on the lovely cream coat I could have crawled down the nearest hole was so embarrased . The lady was not impressed even though i appologised profusely. So i decided it was time to teach poppy some manners and also taught her to drop on command which is a really good exercise to teach ,it also comes in handy from a safety point of view And once she learn't to drop on command i could even stop her going after rabbits and things which isn't bad going for a terrier.

This really made me laugh as I can so picture it in my minds eye. The ladies I encountered yesterday were dressed in similar pale colours. Needless to say I think they avoided the park this morning. I did manage to let my dog off her lead today and only one ball was stolen and only 3 jumps on people she already knew.I am going to practice with the lunge line and will also have ago at a down command. She is very easy to train at home but like someone said, I am not the 'one and only' in her eyes when we are out. Thank you for your help

Don't go to the expense of buying long leads, I have used a washing line and coupling (rope type) and found it does the trick fine. You have to master the dog training in your garden/house first, before your border is let loose in parks etc. If he won't react to training on home soil you'll have a heck of a job elsewhere. Try the washing line trick, give him say 10', and call him back to you, if he doesn't come straight away, reel him in and take the ball of him. Once he 'learns' you can make the distance longer, but keep him on the line. Borders are very, very hard to train, they are after all, terriers with all the traits terriers have, so be patient.
Don't shout at him or put him back on the lead when he's been bad, he'll see it as a negative. Only use positive reinforcement treats/praise, he has to want to do it. At present I'm afraid, you are not as important as other more enjoyable things (ball). Training should only be about 5 minutes or so, and try to make it fun! Remember, dogs like order/structure and routine.
Hope this helps,
Davepu

isn't it wierd how other dogs balls are so much more interesting than their own, exactly the same type i.e. usually a tennis ball? Not entirely sure how to deal with this one as my border collie often takes someone elses ball. Ignoring it so that it doesn't turn into a chase game works quite well but as you say it can be a little embarrassing to say the least when the owner doesn't look too pleased. Have you tried offering food in return for the ball? If this works you can try to teach 'drop'. 'Leave it' is another good command that i use. Not entirely sure how to teach that one as megan just seemed to know. try with a ball (or food) at home hold it out in front of you dog. When he goes to sniff or take it command, leave it in a very stern voice. aif he moves back from your hand, praise and let him have the ball/food as a reward.
I'm not a professional though, i can only say what works for me. I understand how some posts can come across as rude, i must admit i have sometimes had replies that make me feel angry but then you have to think that without seeing facial expressions and listening to tones of voices things come out in ways that they weren't intended. Whilst i know many posters on here do have a lot of knowledge and experience, many of us are normal dog owners who are simply citing what worked for them and did not mean to sound smug. We are all really nice dog loving people honestly!

Thank you for your reply. I have tried food and another ball to get her to drop the other person's when we are out but she knows why I am doing it. she's a right monkey. I can get her to stay sitting at home whilst I throw a ball and she will not go after it until I give the command. So I know she is very trainable. She also does not jump up at any of the immediate family. She knows the command for sit and her recall is fine at home and some of the time when we are out but it just depends on whether she finds something else more interesting. I can't wait to get started on the long lead now but will have to wait until Saturday as I am busying studying for exams at the mo, well should be anyway. Many thanks for all your replies.

Thank you for your help. I will let you know how I get on.

ace - how do you teach your dog to drop on command? My dog has been going to classes since she was 6 months old and knows all the basics, like sit, down, e.t.c. getting her to drop on command would be usefoul. She rarely jumps up at family members but can sometimes jump up at others when out.

Lucy, not Ace, but since no-one else has replied yet, hopefully I can help! :)

"Drop on command" is just another way of saying "instant down". If your dog already knows the "down" command, then you just need to keep practicing it until her response is always immediate. Then put her on a lead and jog along with her and give the "down" command. She should immediately stop and lie down - but use the lead to enforce the command if necessary. Eventually, after much practicing on the lead, you'll be able to give the "down" command when she is off lead and doing her own thing, and her response should be immediate. If you can achieve a reliable instant down, then you could use it in an emergency situation, eg if she was heading towards a road, you could stop her with a "down" command. It is a useful exercise to practice because sometimes a recall would put the dog in further danger, so getting it to stop where it is would be preferable in that situation.

Most good training clubs would teach an instant down at some point, but they have to get through the simpler stuff first. Perhaps you could ask your trainer if/when your class will cover it, because it is very useful. :) HTH

Monty's Mum :)

Thanks Monty's mum, we'll give it a go!

Monty's mum couldn,t have put it better myself. At our training club we don't tend to expect the babies to do it but once they go up a grade then we start to teach the owners how to put their dogs into the instant down as you are so right that particular exercise could literally save your dogs life one day, it is a great road safety exercise to teach any dog,It's the one thing i teach all my dogs to do and spend the most time training the drop. My Afghan also drops on command and if he can do it then any dog can be taught and thats when he is free running at a distance from me.

Monty's Mum, thanks I'll try that as well.