My wife and I took the children to see my parents in the New Forest today and it was decided that we would all take their dog for a walk in the forest. We were walking around an open area of shrubland when we saw a chap who had either 9 or 7 spaniels with him - too many to count!! Only one of them was on a lead and the pack included two Clumber Spaniels, both of these were loose. Our 3yr old daughter was walking ahead of us with our son when the Clumbers suddenly turned and ran straight at her. They bowled her straight over and trampled her into the ground. (As most of you will know, Clumbers are heavy dogs.) Our daughter was terrified and all the chap said was, 'It's alright, they were only playing.'

Well I'm sorry but it was not alright and I don't care if they were only playing. My daughter was terrified and cried for almost 3hrs about those nasty dogs that attacked her. She is 3yrs old and weighs 25lbs, less than one of those dogs, never mind the pair.

Our big problem now is that we are supposed to be getting a puppy next year, what should I do? Our son is really looking forward to getting our Toller but Ellie was so frightened by the Clumbers that I'm worried it's put her off for good.

Any advice????

Thanks,

Chris

I won't tell you what my wife screamed at the dog owner, but I'm sure you can imagine!!!

My wife and I have nothing against Clumbers - they're lovely dogs - just the stupid irresponsible idiot that was walking them.

Chris,
I'm no psychologist, but you could start by buying her a stuffed toy dog that looks as close to a toller as you can find and getting her comfortable that way for starters. Talk to her a lot about your puppy plans so she can get used to the idea of having a dog in the house. Can you visit the breeder before the pups are born? What about friends or neighbors who have dogs? In a quiet and controlled situation she might be able to overcome her new fears rather than taking her somewhere there are loads of loud barking dogs. If she has had contact with a particular dog in the past, and really enjoyed it, you might want to try to bring them together again somehow. One last idea might be to find out if there are any PAT (pets as therapy) dogs near you. These dogs are extra extra gentle and very well behaved. I'm sure any owner of a PAT dog would be more than happy to help you and your daughter work out her recent experience.
It's really awful when things like this happen. It could have been so easily prevented. Not everyone sees eye to eye on what constitues a responsible dog owner. :( I'm glad your daughter wasn't hurt physically, but I know it's often the unseen damage that takes longer to heal. Good luck.:)
Quinn

This kind of accident can happen at anytime when dogs are being free- run, unfortunately, probably especially when the dogs are very fit, as these (presumable working) dogs were. Not making excuses for the owner, but I do have a degree of sympathy. My flatcoats are very boisterous and people-friendly given the opportunity. They also need a reasonable amount of free-running to keep them physically 'satisfied' so to speak.

When I exercise on common land, I try to only take 2 or three at a time, and avoid anyone who obviously has small children in tow. I am also very aware of rounding corners and meeting folk with small children. I guess most sensible folk would behave like this. However, the odd accident does happen - probably the worst was some poor soul who had muddy flatcoat pawmarks on her spotless white trousers in the middle of two thousand acres of common where she said she was going shopping!

I hope I'm not trivialising your accident; Quinn has given you some sensible ideas. I think that also you should re-visit the home of your potential new puppy to see how boisterous (or otherwise) the Tollers are. Personally, one of the first questions I ask potential puppy people is the age of their children. I have always advised that our breed can be very boisterous around young children and fragile older folk, and have never actually homed one where young children were in the family, or with a couple who were maybe expecting in the near future.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hello again Chris! As you may remember, we don't live that far apart. Jon and I are in Wokingham and would be very happy to bring our border collie who is a certifiable mush over to see your little girl on her terms. Bri loves children, is super cuddly and is very low key, unlike some high energy border collies.

Plus you get the added benefit of Jon's years of experience in dealing in child psychology!!! Give me an email and we can set up a date.

Loki would like to apologise on behalf of clumbers everywhere. I'm a fully grown adult and she knocked me over once running into me. Once they've got into full motion, emergency stops are near impossible.

I hope your daughter will be OK. Clumbers do like children in general.

I think a PAT dog sounds like a really good idea:

http://www.pat-prodog.org.uk

If I didn't live so far away, I'd offer to bring Loki round, so that some confidence could be built.

I'm sure with time and a slow introduction back into dogs, your daughter will be fine. Sorry again.

Kate & Loki

Like Jo I have flatcoats and yes they are boisterous, I have to keep them fit as they are working dogs, free running is excellent for them. So can see both sides of this situation. I always try to avoid times when I think people with young children might be walking around. if I spot people with small children then yes, I do put mine on a lead. I find it equally annoying when dogs just run up to my dogs and the owner says "It's alright they are only playing", when it is quite obvious that their dog has run up with hackles raised and tail erect!
There are two things you must consider, and one is, that puppies when teething are going to nip and chew, which is perfectly normal behaviour for them, how will your child cope with this? Also how will you & your wife cope with it?
The second thing to consider is that if your wife reacted by "screaming" at the idiot owner, she has reinforced your daughters fear, perhaps a more laid back approach in front of your daughter might help her get over her fear. I am not saying nothing should have been said, but I would have made my point quietly and firmly to the dog owner.
I do think that the sooner you go and see Sierra or a Pat Dog the better, and I hope your daughter will get over her fright soon.

I have to agree with you - I should have been more restrained, but seeing my very small 3yr old (4 in January) being trampled by 2 VERY large Clumbers is terrifying!!

The thing that really got to me was that this man had absolutely no control over his dogs. He was shouting and shouting at them and none of them paid the slightest bit of attention to him. The dogs were running as a pack and the owner had no place in that pack at all.

We were very lucky that the dogs WERE just being friendly. Ellie has accepted that they were naughty dogs because they didn't do as they were told and that the man was at fault not the dogs but she is very nervous around adult/big dogs now. We had a police handler at the playgroup this morning and she was fine with the puppy but she was very wary of the adult dog. It's such a shame as when we went to the DD show in London she was pushing adults out of the way to get to the dogs and spent ages leaning on a Malamute having a cuddle!!

If only the Clumber owner had been able to sit his dogs down and let Ellie meet them properly, but he didn't get a chance as Ellie was led away by my MIL being told how awful the dogs were and that she was lucky they didn't bite her! Stupid woman!!

Ellie is going to spend a week with my parents and their spaniel puppy, Ellie is wary of her but in a 'healthy' way so we can see how she is with her. Our big worry is that Ellie is going to be frightened of strange adult dogs and that she'll find it very hard when we're walking the Toller. My dad is going to take Ellie with him to puppy class so she can get used to large numbers of dogs and, assuming she's there, let her meet the Clumber that goes. Ellie won't be coming with us when we meet the Toller breeder on Sunday as we felt that would be too much too soon - he has a lot of dogs!!

Hopefully Ellie will bounce back from this quickly and will be back to her normal happy self very soon. I think she just needs to get her confidence back and to have it reinforced that dogs aren't scary - somthing which we'll be asking Sierra and Jon to help with!!

We have warned the children that our puppy will chew and that she won't mean to hurt them but she probably will and they are STILL really keen to get the Toller. Both Chris and I are sure that we can manage with a puppy and that things will work out OK. We won't ever be leaving the puppy alone with the children, for her protection as much as the kids!!, and as the older two will be at school during the week I'll have plenty of time to devote to the puppy for housetraining etc. We have always told the children that some dogs are 'grumpy' and don't really like people and that if a dog growls at them they should leave it well alone. We'd never really prepared them for over friendly dogs which is why it was such a shock for Ellie when the Clumbers said 'hello'.

A quick question before I go - Should we talk about what has happened or not? I don't want to keep going over it, but I don't want Ellie to be quietly worrying about it. Any suggestions?

Thanks for taking the time to read this essay!!!

Fiona - Mrs Buggleywoo

Personally, I would play it down as much as possible and not bring it up unless Ellie were to raise the subject herself :-) I would also try not to *react* when in the company of dogs unless she see's you do so in a positive manner. Whatever you do, do not panic when you see a dog coming towards you. Ellie will feed off of your reaction so try to remember that. Be guided by her reaction. She might not react as badly as you think she will. Kids are very resilient and bounce back very quickly.

Leigh

Hello Fiona
It's Cathy here from Northampton. I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience with the Clumbers. It sounds as though you all need to have your confidence built up again, and that will take time. However you seem to have made some very sensible decisions. I hope your journey to Suffolk goes well on Sunday, and you have your mind put at rest.

You very kindly said in your main e-mail, to which I intended to reply soon anyway, that we might be able to visit you when you have your puppy. I don't know which part of Berkshire you're in, but my sister lives in Eton, so we do come down that far from time to time.

Cathy and Alan.

I think your puppy and your daughter will be fine. You are taking all the right steps. As Leigh says children do follow their parents reactions. A friend of mine had a daughter scared in much the same way, so she asked me if I would let her have a puppy from a litter I had, she was planning buying a puppy from me anyway. The end result is that having grown up with her own puppy she gained confidence and went on to become a veterinary nurse! So the experience did not put her off, children do bounce back, but they do follow their parents example so much.
Sadly clumbers like a lot of gundogs can go "Very deaf" especially when they see something they like, such as children. I do understand your view that the owner was in the wrong, as I said before it is very annoying when out and a a seemingly "ownerless" dog bounds up hackles raised and tail held high, to be followed at some distance by a "caring owner" who says "it's ok it is only playing", tell that to my poor bitch about a week out of season, who is being jumped on!

My feeling is that your daughter will be OK - but keep MIL away!!!! What she said didn't help at all and perhpas little Ellie is more scared by the adult reaction than what actually happened.

I was chased by an aggressive dog when i was Ellie's age and look at me now, can't keep away; my partner had his earlobe bitten right off, when he was small, but he always has loved dogs. Try to perhpas make it a "these things happen" rather than a "OMG that was dreadful" type of thing.

YOu sound so sensible that I am sure all will be well.

I visited my friend Sally's Toller pups a few weeks ago and they all seem very laid back, mum too! Although they can really work they seem to "settle" well. She is a well known behaviourist with many many years of expereince and she would recommend them as pets to an "intelligent" family so the Toller sounds ideal.

An idea might be to help Ellie know what to do if strrange dogs do run towards her, as she may feel safer if sh eknows what to do, and also as she gets bigger (and won'tit happen quickly) she will feel much safer. She will want to join in wiht her brother too!!! <g>

Have fun and I am sure it will all work out, lucky Sierra and John can help.

Who knows I may meet you all in the New Forest as it is my secind home....(I have a Belgian Terv)

Best wishes
Lindsay