Hi. I really need help. I have had a dig for 5 years and we had recently got a new dog about one yr ago. The new dog was gotten into fights with my old one but tonight tey got into a huge brawl. IO was not sure that the old dog was going to mae it out of the fight. I tried whatever i coudl to pull the dogs apart but they would not stop. Finally i was able to get the new dog off of the old dog but only by hitting her with a book. I felt bad about hitting her but it was the only way i could get her to stop. Both of my dogs are medium sized and if i was to get into the middle of the fight i would have never been able to pick one of the dogs up so hitting her was the only thing i could think of as i paniced. Luckyly my old dog was fine and she was only bleeding in a few plaes and the cuts werent very deep. I love both of my dogs and i do not want to get rid of my new dog. I do not know how to stop them from fighting but i fear that if i dont do somethings soon they will get into another fight and i wont be ble to stop them. Please help me!!! I am very scared for my dog and i do not want to jeperdize her safty thankyou!

When bitches start fighting it can be very hard or even impossible to get them to stop. If you can discover the reason why it may help. If your old dog had a few cuts and was bleeding then the bites of the new dog are not inhibited and she means business :( What a horrible situation for you - and it is difficult to suggest anything really withuot seeing the dogs, home set up, and all sorts of things.

The standard advice tends to be to totally separate the dogs or to rehome one of the dogs. The problem is, if they fight again then one day your old dog may be seriously hurt or even killed. I do feel it is possible to keep such dogs in the same house but you have to be SO careful, set up a system of gates etc and also ensure both dogs get enough love and attention, sepaprate walks.....it's not easy and is it a life the dogs would choose? They may both be under a lot of stress :(

I'll be interested to hear what others say, I do wish you lots of luck

Lindsay

Hi

Sadly once bitches fight, and mean it, they can always do it again at the smallest provocation so they need to be separated. Using dog/child gates is one way of doing this to keep them in different parts of the house providing they are not going to jump over the top.

A prime time for fights between bitches when one is coming into season, is in season, or having a phantom.

The small holes sustained during a fight can often be very deep with extensive bruising beneath the skin - keep a close eye on your dogs as they may need anti-biotics.

Christine

Thank you for all of your help. I need as much as i can get. My dogs havent shown any anger towards eachother.....my older dog is just shooken up a bit. My new dog(mandy) really loves my old dog(sandy) and i think shw would b very upset to be seperated from her. I know that i have to be very carefull when they are together but i do not undersatnd why Mandy woudl attack Sandy. Mandy loves being around Sandy and they get along so well exept for the few times the fght which ussually are very easy to break up. This last fight has confused me a bit bcz Mandy wanted to seriosuoly hurt Sandy and now she wanst to be around Sandy. It is a very confusing situation. I know that Mandy woudl be unhappy if she was seperated from Sandy, but i doo not want to put sandy in a dangerous situation. I am so greatful for your advise and i could really use it. Thankyou so much but i could still use all the help i could get;
Samantha

Hi,
I hate to say this, but i have been through an almost identical situation.

I had a young bitch, and i moved in an older one. At first they got on really well. Then they began to have the occasional scrap.
It deteriorated over a period of about six months, to the point where they really wanted to kill each other sometimes.
When the fights started to happen everyday, i finally bit the bullet, and had the younger one rehomed. Despite teh fact that i had had her first, i beleived it was the best decision.

What struck me as very odd was the fact that after a serious fight, they would calm down and be friends again! strange.

However, i do believe, with bitches once they have disagreements regularly, they will NEVER sort it out, unless one kills the other one. It might be possible to sort it by getting the more submissive one spayed, but i wouldnt hold out too much hope.

Good luck,
Emma

If you really have dogs who are fighting seriously. It does not matter how much they like each other between fights, you indicate the problem is escalating, by the fact you say they were easier to separate before.

To be very blunt - separating bitches won't kill them. Leaving them together may result in the death of one of them when a fight really gets out of hand.

Christine

I would like to put my two peneth in here too,I totaly agree with Kerioak these dogs must be split up I have lived through this with my dogs and the trouble is you can not see trouble brewing dogs comunicate through body language and eye contact etc and you may not be aware of what is going on.
another thing is they will fight to the death bitches will not back off !! I saw a Lab I had nearly kill another bitch she went into such a frenzy I got bitten my husband got bitten and it took four people to separate them, the injured bitch had puncture marks in her neck which due to her heavy coat we didnt see and in a few days the bites becae badly infected you must get your checked up.
Lets remember that Dogs are animals not little people in furry jackets as we would like them to be and they have animal instincts,bitches never ever forget not like a male dog who usually defer to the victor of the fight.Hormones are usually to blame also .
You need to consider very carefully finding a new home for one of the dog. OMHO

Entirely agree with everything that has been said. Bitches IMO are far worse than dogs, because dogs will often sort out the pack order between them and one will become submissive. With bitches, once they start to fall out, its often for life.My mother has the same problem with her two bitches, they were fine until the second one was 9-12 months old then they started..and have continued ever since. Often on sight of each other with no trigger at all except the presence of the other dog. They have to be separated with a complicated series of stair gates etc. Its a nuisance but its the only way to stop them killling each other.

Do you think therefore spaying is an answer to this if the problem is in deed hormone related or will they still have the tendancy to fight after?

Lucy

In a word I would say no unless it is related to them coming into season. I have known bitches to become more aggressive after being spayed.

Ingrid

That's right, there was a study done by a Valerie o' Farrell on bitch behaviour and one of the things that cropped up was that if a bitch is aggressive before being spayed then there was a big possibility it would be worse after the operation.

i can't recall if the "aggressive" bitches in the study were like that because of hormones, or whether they were like it for other reasons though.

Lindsay

Well for what its worth, in my mothers case the older bitch was already spayed when the younger one arrived. Both dogs were getting along well at this point, then she had the younger one spayed as well and it was after this that they started to fall out. Each time a fight started it was always the elder one that started it until now they are both as bad as each other.

This may have been because spaying brought them closer together in 'rank' (for want of a better word.....)

To separate fighting dogs safely (for you) do not wade into the middle of them and don't grab them by collars, scruffs etc.. as you can end up being bitten.
If your dog has a tail then, keeping calm, walk behind him or her. Grab the tail firmly by the base and lift the back legs off the ground then walk backwards keeping the legs off the ground. Don't worry it won't come off in your hand. Dogs use the power in their back legs to fight and by lifting them clear you are disabling that. The dog also cannot spin and bite you as you are walking backwards and they are off balance. If the dogs are fighting indoors then back out through a door and kick it shut behind you to keep them apart or get someone else to close it before you release the dog.
If your dog is docked or hasn't enough tail then do exactly the same but grab the dogs back legs firmly and lift those instead of the tail.
Stay safe
Lara x

I thank you all for your support and relies. I just have one more quetion. Niehter of my dogs are spayed but do u think if i got one of them dome that it would help, and if yes,which dog should i get it done to? I read one of the resposes and it said that haveing one of the dogs spayed would set a dominant dog, which i am wondering if it would make a set dominant dog and the other dofg would understand her place and there would b no more arguments over who is more dominant. I thank you all and i really appriciate the advise on how to seperate the dgs rom fighting and if anybody else has anymore tips on how to seperate them would really b apreciatted. Thank you all
.::.~*~SaMaNtHa~*~.::.

Hi,
I think if it was to work, you should get the more submissive dog spayed. That way, the more dominant dog should see her as less of a threat.
However, as neutering can make bitches MORE aggressive, then it might actually make the submissive dog more reactionary, which would not solve your problem.
Also, depending on how aggro the other bitch is, if you bring your submissive bitch in, straight after the op, she might well be attacked, as she will be in a very vulnerable position.

Of course, they are your dogs, adn you will have to make your own decision, however, if it was me (as it has been in the past)i would rehome one of the dogs.

Em

Hello,
I would like to thank you all once again. My dogs have been terrrible today. i am thinking the worst at the momnet. They have both been fighting with eachother non-stop. I am not sure i f i am jsut over-reacting today bcz i am so afraid of them fighting or if they really are seriosuly showing agression. The dogs have not fought but they have growled and gone after eachother numerous times. The thing is that i am only 16 years old. The first dog(sandy) has become so attached to me that she NEEDS me. if she does not have me she becomes depressed and will not eat or go outside. The newer dog(mandy) is not as close with any one individual like sandy is, but my younger sister loves her more hen words could describe. She would be devestated if we were to get rid of mandy. I love her too but there is not much we could do. My little brother is only 6 and i fear that mandy may go after him one day. It is highly unlikely but it may happen. She is a great dog, she really is, she just fights with other dogs. She would never harm a person but i am jsut so paranoid now. It seams that the dogs only fight when there are about3-4 people in the room or if there is food involved. If there is any foo, anywhere, unless you are sitting on a high barstool at the counter, then mandy will bark. She will jsut persistantly bark. She does not stop and it will get sandy excited. They will both want the food and then they wil begin to bark and growl at eachother. We ussually try and put mandy outside, but sometimes hse just wont go out. The large group of people situation baffles me. I do not understand why they would fight when there are numerous people around. It confuses me and i have no way of fixing this situation because i do not understand why that will get them upset. My mom does not thinnk that useinga cage for one of the dogs would work. She says that if one dog has been raised without a cage, then it will never be able to djust to a cage. Sandy cannot leave because she was the first dog and she would never be happy with another family. Mandy is a beautiful dog with a beautiful story(she is a dog rtht my dad had gotten me for christmas from his precinct. He is a nyc police officer and one of the stray dogs that "live" in the precinct had puppies. The mother had bit a cop when he went near her babies so she had to be put o sleep. She is black with brown paws and a brown lower jaw. She has a white spot on her chest and she loks as if she is a rottie-shepard mix, b ut she must have some type of husky in her because odly, she has blue eyes). I love both of my dogs and i do not want to get rid of mandy. I am a huge animal lover and would never be able to part with her. I have decided today that i want her out of our house though. I think she is too much of a threat to sandy. My mom thinks that getting her spayed will calm her down(and sandy) but i am so afair it wont work. Ig et a feeling in my stomache that is so painful any time i hear ay ound that sounds like a dog growl, or if the dogs do growl. I fear for sandys life but it would be so ahrd to part with mandy. I am so upset and ifANYBODY has any more suggestions it would help me a great deal. NNO sugestion is to wierd or farfetch for me and i would love to hear from you. Thank you all so muhc and allthough u may not realize it, you help is greatly apreciatted and is really needed for me. I hope none of you ever have to go through wit this ype of situationa nd that none of you ever have to go through the pain i am experiencing right now.

*The mother had bit a cop when he went near her babies so she had to be put o sleep. *

that is so sad she will protect her babies why did she have to be put to sleep?

I'm sorry your having this trouble with your dogs but In my opinion you will have to split them up one day one of them is going to be badly injured or maybe even the young child you spoke of as when they are fighting they get in such a frenzy they dont realise what they aere doing I think you need to make the sacrifice for the sake of harmony returning to your home.And the dog s would be happier IMHO

Hi Lil

I'cw read and re-read all the postings here, and sadly, come to the same conclusion as the other posters: to be fair to BOTH dogs, you are going to have to separate them and re-home one of them.

You say at the moment they just fight when there are several people there: what will happen when they start to fight and there is no-one there? Are you prepared to come home and find one of them dead? What happens if your little brother is the only person in the house, and he tries to separate them - how would you feel if he is badly hurt?

Lil, I understand that you are only 16: it sounds as if you are a real animal lover and have done your best with your dogs. Sadly, owning dogs carries huge responsibilities, most good, some very hard to do. I think you are going to have to make one of the hardest decisions of your life and re-home Mandy, to a home where she will be the only dog, and preferably one without children, taking into account her background. Yes, she will miss you, and you her, but if in the end, YOU cand find a good home for her (I don't advocate putting her into a Dog Pound or Shelter first) you will have done the best you can for her - she has had 4 good years of love with you, so she should have many more with another family. Mandy will go back to having a gentle loving life with you. You will have done the best for both dogs. Be brave, love.

Margot

Hi Lil,
Sorry, but as teh others have said, you will HAVE to rehome her.
I can understand how much you love them both, but really u are not doing either of them any favours by keeping them both.
The younger one should adapt very quickly to a new home. If you dont do this, then im afraid i can see either one of the dogs killing the other, or a child getting bitten badly.

Please find a new home for your younger bitch, it is in her BEST interests, and at the end of the day, this is what you need to think about.

Emma

In the mean time you need to keep them segregated. A lot will depend on the layout of your house. If you have two rooms that have doors to the backyard/garden, say kitchen, and Patio doors from a living room, it should be possible by using baby gates to ensure their paths never cross.

They will then have to take turns being in the garden, and ytou will need to share your time between their respecitve living areas (assume kitchen and living room).

In this time you can start to search for a really good home for her, or you may find you can manage the strict seperation, but I doubt the latter, as in a busy household with children, and their friends coming and going, rmembering to close doors and gates can become somewhat stressful.

Good Luck!!

Just because the two dogs hate the sight of each other dosn't mean they will attack your little brother, particularly if they have shown no aggression towards humans before. My mothers dogs are murderous with each other but are quite happy with people. The system of gates they have does work. Its a pain to keep remembering to shut the gates but after a while it becomes second nature. You may ask why does she bother, but she loves the pair of them and would not part with either. Its a situation that she has accepted and has coped well with for several years.

I have two bitches (singletons in a litter) that hate the sight of each other. They are 7 months apart in age and both dominant. I have now moved one to my business premises and rotate them. It started when the younger of the two came into season. Closed doors and gates didn't help for me.

One day the older one (who was in season at that time) opened the door by jumping on the door handle. My other dogs (including the younger bitch) and pups were running together in the dog room which opened onto the dog run. One of the pups had brought in a young chick and whilst I was taking the chick back outside as I turned to come back into the dog room the younger bitch was at the gate and stood ridged. My stomach dropped to the floor since I was on my own and as is always the case no soon as I put one foot in the doorway when all hell broke loose. The younger bitch dragged the older one over the gate and whilst they were going hell for leather at each other the male I had was trying to mate the older one since she was in full season and the pups thought this is fun and was jumping all over the place. I managed to drag the bitches outside and at that point went balistic (I dread to think what the neighbours thought) when I stopped ranting and rageing all the dogs had separated the pups sat in their boxes and the dog in his kennel at which point I managed to separate the bicthes and throw one in a kennel. Since then there was no way they could be in the same vicinity. They smell each other through doors.

Your younger bitch appears to want to be pack leader and as previously mentioned by other posts they should be separated or one of them rehomed. You should forget your own feelings or those or your sister and think of the dogs because one day you will not be able to part them.

Samantha - since you want other suggestions, here is mine. But please know that this is what has worked for me and my dogs. It may not work for you and if it does not, then finding another home for one of the dogs should be done.

First - you must be pack leader, so to speak. Or your mother must be, if she is around the dogs most of the time. Right now, the dogs do not respect you, or your parents, as head of their pack. If there is an obedience school in your area, take both dogs to it along with yourself and one of the adults in your home, to train those dogs.

If that is not feasible for you right now, I highly suggest the late Barbara Woodhouse's book, No Bad Dogs. Please get that book, read it like it is the Bible, and do exactly what she says. If your bookstore doesn't have it in stock, please order it from here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671541854/104-4767417-4787164?vi=glance

Samantha, I am a cat person, have scores of books on cats, know everything there is to know about cats, still have and adore cats and prefer cats over dogs any day. That said, I now also have 4 dogs, all of them strays when I found them, three are female, one is male. I had the females spayed and the male neutered. It never occurred to me that they would NOT get along with each other. And they all got along with each other beautifully, until awhile ago when two of the females had a vicious fight.

In my dog's case, the fight was about who got to go out the door first. A pack rank issue. Number 2 female insisted that Number 3 female not try to move up in rank (which Number 3 tried to do by going out the door before Number 2). The fight ensued when number 2 whirled on number 3, and bedlam broke loose. It happened again a week later. I re-read No Bad Dogs by Barbara Woodhouse to see what she says, if anything, about this.

She suggests that the aggressor be muzzled.

I didn't see how that would work nor why but I got a soft cloth muzzle to have on hand. When the next fight occurred, after I broke it up I muzzled Dog #2 for about 20 minutes while I made both #2 and #3 walk in and out that door - in and out, in and out, in and out - with #2 going in and out in front of #3, to respect their established pack order. They did NOT want to do that, but I made them by leading them on leashes, while telling them in a firm tone of voice (Woodhouse is big on tone of voice) that I will not tolerate fighting, they are *going* to get along, they are family, #2 will NOT attack # 3, and you # 3 (I called them by their real names of course) will allow #2 to go *before* you, no fighting *ever again* between the two of you, have I made myself clear, do you *both* understand me!

Then I removed the muzzle and let the dogs be. Samantha, they have not fought again - it's been about 9 months. It helps, too, that the two other dogs watched all this, to know that they'd better not start fighting either. Barbara Woodhouse says in No Bad Dogs that muzzling the culprit almost always does the trick, but if it doesn't the first time, then the next time they fight, muzzle again.

Please go get, read, and follow No Bad Dogs. One of the oddest and most unnatural things to me is that we, the owners, must change so much of what is our nature if we are to have well behaved dogs in the home. You don't have to do that with cats. But with dogs, we must become - to the dog's mind - the leader of their pack. Barbara Woodhouse explains this in detail. From the things you wrote about your dogs barking then growling whenever you all have food around, etc, has me think that a definite pack leader out of your human family *must* be established in the dog's minds. Obedience training would be the best approach, but failing that, I swear by the methods in No Bad Dogs, and I can say that muzzling the culprit is what worked in my dog's fighting case. They haven't fought in 9 months.

More than that, they get along, all of them. Just yesterday at a Dog Fair in the Park fundraiser for the Humane Society, I took all four dogs. Several people remarked to me how nice it is to see all four of them happily get along so well and not bother me while I ate a hamburger in front of them. But one woman, with a bad scar on her arm she explained to me she got when she broke up her two fighting dogs, asked me what was the secret. I told her: you must be their pack leader in their dog minds, you must show them you darn well *expect* them to get along, and go get No Bad Dogs to learn what to do. I wish you luck Samantha. I hope this will solve the problem for you. It's worth a shot before you give one of them to a new home. EC Kostrubala

I forgot to say that since that day, not only did the fighting stop, but the attempt at moving up in pack order rank, and subsequent defense of rank, stopped. In essence, those dogs have behaved as if they understood every single word I told them, or understood my point when I led them - while one was muzzled - in and out the door in the established rank order. But I think the muzzle on # 2 is what got the message through to them that physically biting and fighting is not tolerated. Please have your parents try this, Samantha. Good luck. EC Kostrubala

hi,
I stick to the advice i have given, i think if you try the method described above, you could well end up in more trouble than you would sort out!!!!!!!!
Find the younger dog a new home, and do it fast, until then, keep them separated!
I dont think either dog would attack a human, from the sounds of your post, however, if a small child were to be in the way of fighting dogs, it could easily happen.

I shall keep MY thoughts on Barbara Woodhouses methods to myself, as for the main part they are entirely unprintable!!!!!

Emma

I hate to say it but i agree, the dogs must be parted for THEIR sakes as well as everyone elses. I dont believe that Mandy would go for anyone human, because dogs who bite humans do it for different reasons to biting other dogs, but the dogs themselves must be so stressed.

I think when you really love dogs you have tothink of them first and not yourself - it sounds harsh but really it is the same as we all feel when a dog is ill and has to be put to sleep. No one want that, but they love the dog enough to maek themselves do it.

Find a good home for Mandy, maybe where you could visit from time to time if that would help. Check the home out and make sure it is right for her.

I'm afraid your sister will also have to ve very brave and understand that the older dog must stay and Mandy must go.

Meanwhile be very careful and simply don't put the dogs in a situation where they can get to each other.

Take care
Lindsay
X

Just imagine two dogs/bitches and one is muzzled and the other decides to have a go at the muzzled one.


Ive read through all the advice given above and the sensible thing is to bite the bullet and find a lovely home for one of them not to do this is asking for trouble.
Its not the end of the world to rehome a dog if its in their best interests I take in dogs all the time for rehoming and they settle very well in a new home the most common phrase I hear from new owners of adopted dogs is "you would think he/she had been here all his/her life"
I think people have to try and understand pack instinct and no matter how much we try to humanise our dogs they are still dogs and not humans !! sometimes we keep far too many dogs in a home environment and expect them to get on,we need to educate more and research into animal instinct and general behaviour and also most important read/research up on chosen breed as well as a lot of breeds need very differing lifestyles.

Samantha, so that you know, Barbara Woodhouse is not some nutter. Before she passed away she was a professional, highly successful dog trainer in Great Britain. She appeared on numerous television programs: I learned of her when the very respected, serious investigative news report program, 60 Minutes, investigated her and gave her resounding approval (not the usual conclusion when Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes goes after someone). She had an enormously popular television series, 'Training Dogs the Woodhouse Way,' which was broadcast in the UK and the USA. She trained 17,000 dogs in her 30 years of professional dog training. Her success was due to the fact that her techniques work. I'll let her words speak for her: some of what she says in No Bad Dogs about fighting dogs and what to do about them: "Jealousy, sex and the guarding instinct are the three things that cause most fights; the dog's mind runs only on those lines unless he is starving and fighting for food.... The mind of a dog that fights always has at the back of it the wish to be the boss of the tribe.... Muzzle that dog and let him loose with the dog he has previously fought and nine times out of ten he will realize he is at a disadvantage and show no signs of aggression. That is why I muzzle fighters ... often, having muzzled, introduced and trained them for a short time together, I have formerly bad fighters lying side by side without muzzles after a few minutes. Your own personality needs to be strong to deal with fighters, because fighters are usually adult dogs...The cure is firm handling and training, neutering in really bad cases, and the treatment of the dog by freeing it with other nonfighting dogs under supervision...."

Proof's in the pudding: her muzzling technique certainly worked in my dogs' case. They haven't fought in the 9 months since I applied her technique. More than that, they get along beautifully. Samantha, whatever you and your parents decide to do about your fighting dogs - since your family owns dogs, please do read Barbara Woodhouse' book as it is so helpful in understanding a dog's mind and what the owner must do with them in order to have well behaved dogs. And in addition to that, I continue to suggest obedience training where you and one of your parents attend with the dogs. If this doesn't work, then again, rehoming one of the dogs should be done. But this gives you and your parents another option to try. Good luck Samantha. EC Kostrubala

mmmmm
I know that some of what Ms Woodhouse said did indeed make sense, however, i definately dont think ALL of it did, in fact, a lot of the things she did where in my opinion downright cruel.

Whilst i can appreciate the advice you have given EC, this is because i HAVE seen Barbara woodhouses tv programme, and read her books. However i think that making out that Woodhouse was the be all and end all of dog training to some one who has NOT seen it, or read about her, is dangerous.

What do you say about her methods for training using a choke chain? Especially the 'down' command. As i recall, this involved having the dog standing beside you, giving the command in a strong voice, and then the second it did not do as it was asked (and how could it, having not been trained to know what the command meant) stamping ones foot down sharply on the lead, which was attached to a choke chain.
A lot of Barbara woodhouses methods, to me certainly, smack of brute force and at times, ignorance. I would not reccommend to ANYONE that a dog be trained like that!

I realise, that with experienced and confident owners, bitch to bitch aggression in the house CAN be sorted out, however, i think that to give advice like this to a young person who is not so experienced, is to give false hope, and could end up with a serious accident.

Sorry, but thats how i feel, and i HAVE been in this same situation, so i think i know a bit about what i am talking about.

Emma

I think the most important thing Barbara Woodhouse taught was the importance of tone of voice. Dogs don't understand what you say, they understand how you say it. If you tell them off, you must sound really cross - the moment they stop, then the tone of voice changes to a light, happy, you're-the-very-bestest-thing-in-the-world voice.

Tone of voice - and timing!!
:)

I think some of her methods are somewhat dated, but a lot of her training did make and still does make sense. Some of the excersises where dogs were off lead, and ignored and shooed away by other handlers to aid recall to the owner were quite good, and were ahead of her time, and now are used in puppy socialisation.

Bearing in mind that her breed were great Danes, the authoritarian approach was probably needed and successful. Plenty of people still use check chains without being cruel.

Samantha, Jeangenie describes Barbara Woodhouse's emphasis on tone of voice perfectly, and Brainless' comment that some of her methods were ahead of her time is absolutely correct. Please be assured, Samantha, that Woodhouse is not some choke chain sadist. Again, I'll let her words speak for her. Some of what she says in No Bad Dogs about choke chains: "... a choke chain...very often has a devastating effect on the owner.... It takes me a long time to convince owners that if the choke chain never closes on the neck, which is my method, how can it damage?...In my opinion the idea that the correct choke chain is cruel and that dogs don't like them is nonsense. I can understand the wrong type being unkind, like the spiked collars or the very thin linked ones. Very large linked ones are quite harmless; in my opinion most choke chains are used incorrectly. I teach my owners to throw their hands forward, jerk sharply downward and immediately let go with the left hand, still keeping the right hand on the lead...." She includes photos of choke chains so that there's no question which kind she thinks is harmless, and which kind she thinks is cruel to use, and gives detailed instructions on the correct method for using one, so that the choke chain, as she says, "never closes on the neck."

Given the contents of your previous posts, Samantha, I rest assured you share this information with your parents and that they, not you, are the authority in your home on this issue. Best of luck to you on your dogs. EC Kostrubala

The best way to solve this is to make one dog the dominant dog. This one must be fed first, greeted first, put on the lead first, have its own sleeping spot and space, be allowed through doors first etc. Remember dogs have a pecking order, YOU are top dog followed by the alpha male/female then the other dog. Personally, I would make your original dog the alpha. Also be aware that as dogs reach maturity (about 12-18 months) they will challege other dogs for dominace so be careful. I have four dogs, they are always treated/fed through a pecking order, its so much easier for me and the dogs. Hope this helps.

Making the original dog the alpha may well do more harm than good - i suspect from what has been said that the dog/s are competing in fact for resources - human company, whatever - and the fights for this can be serious. If anything, the attacking dog should be made alpha in this particular instance, but to be honest i feel the whole situation is fraught with our lack of complete knowledge on here, also danger to the older dog :(

ULtimately the owner may be able to control things but I feel the only sane thing to do is to totally separate the bitches, by rehoming the new bitch, this seems to have got too serious for anything else.

Lindsay

Sometimes, we just can't sort things however hard we try. I had a friend with fighting bitches who could not bare to part with either of them. She did everything the books say and eventually believed things were improving - until she came home from shopping one day to find one bitch dead and ripped to pieces, the other badly injured. She could never forgive herself or the dog that survived.
When we take a dog into our care and into our heart, we have to do the best we can for them, even when it is hard on us. You, your family and your dogs deserve a happy relaxed home. If your dogs are fighting, none of you are happy or relaxed. Your young dog needs a home where she is the centre of attention and has no canine competition. Find her a good home. She will be happier then and in time, you can be happy for her because she has wants she needs.
Carrie

Regardless of the merits (or lack of them) of Barbara Woodhouse, the real issue here is that you have a young child in the house. It will be upsetting for him to watch the family pets fighting, not to mention dangerous, dogs fighting can, and do, injure people by accident.
If you really really want to keep both dogs, then ask your vet to refer you to a good behaviour counsellor who, unlike people on this website will actually have the advantage of meeting the dogs and getting a full and detailed history, and they will be able to give you a more accurate diagnosis, and advise you of what action to take.
If this aggression is as serious as it sounds, you need to take action straight away.
In the meantime, make sure that the dogs are separated, and adequately exercised (frustration is a very common cause of aggression).
Good luck, and please please please seek expert advice if you are not going to rehome your younger dog.
Jo

Hi all
Please keep the dogs Separated. My Sister had the same thing happen to her but it was mother and one of the 2 pups that my sister Had kept At first they was fine together But over time they started to Fight over the months this got worse my sister separated them by using gates and things got a lot better With them not being around each other. The other pup was fine with mum and also fine with the other pup so my sister find it very hard to understand why this was happening.

One day my sister went out leaving the Females dogs Separated as usual, but when her other half returned home what he find was the most horrifying sight Anyone could have find.
I got a phone call from him well I will never forget It all he said was the dogs Has had a fight and could I come down immediately he needed some help.
I went Immediately to him i will never forget what i saw. The mother poor Sham she was lying In a pool of Blood She could not move. I immediately got Some blankets to keep her Warm got her into my car and rushed her To the vets She was Admitted But she was in shock she died the next day The vet said that she had over one hundred Bite Marks over her body.
The pup had jumped the gate and got to the mother the pup had never jumped it before and my sisther had been using the gates for about 11 months so she thought things was fine but it only take once and something like this can happen.
It was the most horrifying experience that I've Had to deal with any Animal and I would never want to experience this again.
My sister cried for weeks she found it so hard to deal with and still now blames herself for What Happened. She then had to have the pup PTS because she was so frightened that it could and probably would have done this again.

Lorraine