After a little advice (I hope to confirm my own thoughts)

When would you think is the best time to introduce another pup to your household?

Have a Stafford pup aged 5 months at the moment she is GREAT, Sal is also the 4h I've had over the last almost 25 years now (started when I was at school Sam a present from parents for good O'level results) plus have always owned multi stafford households in the past. But unfortunatley due to the early and totally unexpected and much mourned early death of Gyp, this pup is an only dog at the moment.

When would you add another pup? Oh before I leave this open to debate, the new pup will be a bitch and a Stafford.

Thanks and will love to hear your thought experiences.

Karen

Hi Karen , you might like to have a look at this thread which was a similar one a little while back ..it may just help ;)

Old Thread

Melody :)

Thanks Melody, I have just had a look I think it mostly bears out my original thoughts and a new puyp will join us shortly.

Thanks Karen

Right HI Kazstaff!

First of all i would definately not add another Stafford until your girl is 100% mature and trained, ie. around 2 years old. At 5 months Sal is still all sweetness and light, but she will go through the teenage years and you wont want another pup around at that time! Also, it is much easier if your older dog can help train the younger one. You will also not find out wht pup is like with other dogs until she is 18 months or so. When you have 2 at a similar age there are dominance issues that could lead to them having to be seperated permanatly.

Also, i would strongly suggest that you do not get another bitch! 2 Staffords in a household does not always work anyway, but having opposite sexes you are increasing your chances of a happy ending. The standard rule is - never have 2 males, avoid 2 bitches but a bitch and a dog will work well together if they are far enough apart in age to understand who is the boss!

Even with a dog / bitch combo never leave them alone together - not even for 10 monutes while you pop out to the shop. Staffords can start a fight over almost anything and if you are not around to put a stop to it then they will not stop themsleves until one if not both are seriously injured. They can become easily jealous and are faily possessive.

I would suggest calling a few Stafford people - the club secretaries are good sources of information - i have found Jim or Barbara Beaufoy very helpful and willing to give advice (numbers can be found here)

Please do not rush into this decision because you love your dog so much - some staffords are happier in a single dog household cos them they get all the attention for themselves!

Alex (with 2 staffords!)

Hi Kazstaff
My father in law has 3 Staffs. Mother now 8 years, son now 6 years, and one that was bought from another breeder (bitch) who is now 4 years. They all get on perfectly and have never fought. They are never seperated at night or when home alone and there has never been any problems. They also have a very small cross breed a terrier type, she is about 12 years and she rules the roost. She snaps at the Staffs when they go near her, she'll eat from there bowls if she wants, but they wouldn't dare go anywhere near hers. she is totally the boss. My kids have nicknamed her the wicked grandmother.
Michelle.

HI Michelle,

Glad that it has worked out that way for your father in law, but i don't think it a good idea to say that if it worked for him it will work for everybody! All breeders, and pet homes who keep multiple staffords keep them seperated when they are out, because you can never tell what might happen and they are utterly capable of killing each otehr without a thought - even best friends, and mother and child. My first breeder used to leave her mother and daughter pair unattended and they got on absolutley fine until one day there playing got out of hand and they started to fight - veru lucky that she was there is all i can say!

Also, your father in laws dogs are far enough apart in age to realise the pack structure. If he had 2 bitches only 6-12 months apart they would have to decide who was the top dog - if they had complementary personalities then that would be fine - but how can you know that when the older bitch is not even into her personality properly?

I love my dogs - and they get on fantastically, but the older one (4) would have been just as happy as a single dog and i know that solo (1) really narks her off at times. It she was a dominant personality like he is then sparks would fly regurlarly in my household. As it is she is enourmously laid back, adn most definately the boss when it comes down to it...

But, this is only my opinion - please contact many more Stafford people who have been in the breed for many many years.

Alex

I have 3 Staffords, dog aged 7 & 2 bitches (mother & Daughter) aged 4 & 2. I would NEVER leave them alone together, even for ten mins. I know someone who does leave there dogs together & they've had a couple of scaps but didn't take it as a warning & a few weeks ago they arrived home to a dead dog!! Something which could have been prevented.

Hi
I didn't mean to sound like I thought it was the right thing to leave staffies together unattended I was just stating that, that is what he does, maybe he's been lucky so far. I have a Staffie bitch 3yrs and I have kept one of her pups (male). He is only 9 weeks old, at the moment I keep them apart at night and any time I am out the house, but the reason for that is because the bitch can't leave him alone, she justs wants to fun fight with him all the time, she drags him around by his leg and generally just gets too rough. she hasn't an ounce of aggression in her so she isn't purposely hurting him but he doesn't seem to enjoy it and only fights back because he has to. I was hoping a time would come when they could be left together, maybe when he was big and strong enough to take the rough play, but listening to all your messages it seems like it's the rough play that leads to the more serious fights. Or would that only happen when he is an adult? Or would I never be allowed to leave them alone together. I thought a dog and a bitch would get on better than the same sex.

Hi Michelle,

They will get on fine - but you cant be sure that one of them (your bitch probably) wont just push it too far! Fine if you are there to stop it, but what if you are not? When solo was a baby he used to drive cleo mad with wanting to play all the time, so we let her have somewhere quiet, seems your pup would benifit from this too - does he have a crate that he can go into when he has had enough where she knows is a no go area? Just while you are around that is...

Staffords love to be rough and tumble and most of the time this is just fine, but some times one may nip a bit too hard and the other retaliate and then its 3rd world war :p! But no probelm if you are there to calm things down...

Alex

Hi Kazzstaff
Agree with what Cleopatra says about never two dogs but disagree about two bitches, providing they are not left alone together.
We have bitches that all get on great together and with our 1 male.
However, like everyone has said NEVER leave them alone together when you are not there.
With staffs, and many other breeds, you need to be really alert and always ready for a squabble. Usually the worst fight has started from a small squabble, so if the squabble is stopped it will prevent the fight.
If you do have more than 1 staff would recommend crates for when you are not there. Also a tip: staffs are very clever and can soon learn to open various types of create so be on the safeside and buy a clip or padlock to be extra sure!

Hi,

Had no plans to leave the dogs together when we're out. One will stay in the kitchen Sal because she already sleeps in the kitchen and settles down there easily and happily, when she's either left alone or going to go out. (The kitchen is 30'x20' so not small)
The pup will stay in the dinningroom/tv room. All it has is a really comfy old sofa and a tv in it as well as a record (yes record player ;) some things sound better on record than on cd's) So this will be the pups bedroom.

They will be together in the day but Sal happily accepts her dog crate, curling up in there when we go away for a night. The pup will do the same.

Have had Staffs since 1978 and have had dog/bitch combo's in the past and for a while two dogs (SBT rescue had a dog they asked us to foster to see how socialised he was back in 1984 so we had him for about 3 months teaching him to get used to family/people/cats/staffords etc Sam my Stafford dog at that time was 6 and a fantastic dog) The dog still lives with the family that adopted him and I see him about 4 times a year. This is just to point out that I realise what Staffs are like and realise you need to be on top of the situation all the time.

I know bitches can live together in relative Stafford harmony, like yours do Staffie and like mine will in time with common sense and good managment.

Just one small point to add - all Staffys are different and have different temperaments , just like people. Because one is a sweetie does not necessarily mean another will be and that is probably why some people have had no problems while others have .
Lel

Hi Kazzstaff,

I have no doubt that staffie is right! But hse breeds and shows - and out of preference the pet owner would take one of each!

I am sure 2 females would work with a sufficient age gap and proper handling - but (and i am sure staffie will agree with this as well?!) not with only 6 months age gap!

Please get advice from other stafford [people not just the breeder that you are getting off (does he/she know that you are intending to add another female when yours isnot even in the teengae years?) and just listen to what they say.

And whats the hurry to add another anyway?

Hi Kazzstaff
From reading your last post you seem to have plenty of experience with staffies and I am sure you are a very responsible owner :-)
Therefore I think the timing of when you have your next puppy is entirely up to you and am sure you will be all too aware of the dos and don'ts.
I do breed and show but also my staffs are pets for the whole family including my three children eldest 14 youngest 5, so I have to feel confident with the dogs all together to allow my children to be with them. :D

Goes against all the other breeders that i have spoken too with up to 40 years of experiience - but still have to say be wary - you are obviously going to do what you want to do!

Staffie, Have you ever had 2 bitches fall out? What are the age gaps between the bitches that you have in your home? Are you happy to leave your kids on the floor and 2 bitches that are either nearing a season or just finished a season with toys around? And would you suggest that it is a good idea to get any dogs so close in age?
My point is i am sure that whatever sexes she decides to get she can make it work with enough time and commitment - but it would very much surprise me if you tought it a good idea to have 2 young immature staffprds in the same household... Not that i shall ever presume again... just interested

Hello Alex
Of course at sometime my bitches have had a squabble, usually when play fighting gets a bit rough, but we are always there to stop a squabble from becoming a fight. As I said they are never left alone unsupervised as we are too careful.
I have 1 bitch aged 4, 1 bitch 2 and a half and 1 bitch 9 months. At the moment we also have a bitch here that we are whelping and she is 18 months. Of course the bitch that is staying is not mixing with our bitches for obvious reasons.
My children are age 14, 10 and 5 so why would I want to leave them on the floor?
If you look at other posts I have said I trust my dogs with the children but with any dogs would not leave them on their own. Not because I do not trust my dogs but because I am a mother and would never take any risks regarding my childrens well being - am sure other mothers are the same. In saying that of course at this time I am not including the 14 year old who is responsible enough to be left with them on his own - well at 14 he is responsible to look after other children so I have to let go of the apron strings at some point :-).
As for getting the dogs so close in age gap - agree with you if someone is inexperienced but for an experienced responsible owner that is fully aware of the risks that COULD be involved then who are we to insult their intelligence and say they are not able to?
I know of some people that had a 5 year old bitch and then introduced a puppy. Everything fine until the pup had reached about 15 months. Then they got into a fight. Like you say the puppy bitch had got to those "teenage years" and was trying her luck at being "top dog". The other bitch was not a youngster so to be honest at any point regardless of age there is going to be some power struggle between any two bitches. As long as any owner is aware of this and and is very careful then all we can do is make them aware of the risks.
I have always said a fight can start over the silliest thing so always to air on the side of caution so cannot understand why you are questioning me to check my responsibility. I remember that I am the on on previous posts that tried to stress the risks of dogs being off the lead with strange dogs, but I was told I was giving the wrong impression of Staffs. As an owner and breeder myself I am fully aware of what a stafford is capable of -as many other breeds are too - and therefore prefer to be safe than sorry at ALL times.
Hope my reply has satisfied your interest :D

Exaclty my point - i would never keep 2 bitches together unlessi was breeding from them - i just dont see the point! I wanted another bitch as i wanted to show and breed but i was not wiling to run the risk of a fall out where hormones are responsible.. and yes i know that you risk this with an opposite sex pair but the likelihood is reduced! So i will wait until cleo goes to get another female...

And yes i dont see why it cant work if someone knows enough - but i wasn't under the impression that the original poster was aware of the "rule" of avoiding same sex pairings if necessary - and being a previous owner of staffords that have never fought makes you think that they never will! I was trying to give advice that you obviously think it patronissing - but i am fed up with people getting 2 staffoprds and then crying when it doesn't work out becasue they were not prepared!

As to the reference to the floor i meant that as alone! Not making myslef very clear again :) But if you do not trust your dogs with otehrs, how can you trust them with each otehr? I am not questioning your responsibilty at al - i just believe that people should be made aware of all the facts - and the huge possibility that things may go horribly wrong, and the written word can be easily misunderstood! I read your post as saying that there was no danger and no reason - i was just questioning the validity of tat statement!

I honestly believ that most staffords are more happy in a single dog household - i got solo for my own selfish reasons not becasue i believed that cleo needed a "friend"! An di also belive that the majority of stafford owners shoudl remain single dog people, or at least wait until they are fully aware of their dogs personality. But is you see that as patronising i apoligise it is not meant to be i prefer to see people fully eqquipped before they go ahead and do something - even if that means painting a very negative picture in order to make peole think there decisions through!

I am sorry if i have offeded you - i shall bow out of this conversation now as i have a feeling that i am talking to myself anyway! :D

Cleo

Don't be silly Cleo you are not talking to yourself as I am replying and I do understand the point you are trying to get accross to people.
I did not say there was "no reason and no danger" as I too emphasised NEVER to leave them alone.
I too on my first post was not aware of the original posters past experience with the breed, but on reading subsequent posts it appears they do infact have experience with them.
So long as people are aware of the risks then all we can to is hope they are as responsible as they say :-)
I trust my dogs with each other when we are there because they know each other and have been brought up together. I do not trust them with a completely strange dog until they have got to know them - they may be fine from the onset but I would rather be safe than sorry. Not presume my dog is ok with a strange one to then find one of them hurt rather than be being careful and letting them get used to each other first. Hope I have explained that ok:-)