Does anyone think that certian breeds are getting smaller.
The last few show i have been to, large breeds seem to be getting really small . ie The rotties that were there , lovely as they were seemed really tiny to how i remember them and so do the dobes.
My breed the newfs that are coming in from abroad all seem so much smaller than what we have here, they have been classed as a giant breed for many years but the litters that are out at the moment do not seem to have the bone or size of the ones i remember.
there are a lot of Italian and American dogs coming over and they seem tiny, like lab height but fatter, has anyone else noticed this?

Peanuts

It could be than in trying to breed sounder more active dogs excess size is being given up for a more moderate but within standard size. Also of course it takes a long time for a giant breed to reach full maturity, so the young ones will be smaller.

Sorry if sounded misleading but i am talking about adult dogs not puppies.

Peanuts

Rough collies went through this a few years ago, at some shows I thought that I was looking at bad Sheltie's, I'm glad to see that their size and movement have much improved in the last 2 or 3 years.

To be perfectly honest, I was amazed at the Rough Collies I saw at Discover Dogs. I thought they were Shelties.

They were much smaller than the rough collies I have seen before.

Well I don't know who was representing the breed at Discover Dogs, but the standard hasn't changed! Bitches 20"-22" at the shoulder and dogs 22"-24". Some of the winning dogs are small but most are within the standard. Maybe you are used to seeing a 24" male, which makes a 20" bitch look small??

Have a feeling that in the past, recent past, that there was a concentration on breeding for bone and size, with a bigger is better feeling. Now I think we all know better and try to breed for an all round fit dog able to do the job reguired of them. Breeders have been concentrating on things other than size and in some cases this has led to an overall reduction in size. In some breeds this change has not too much to do with the breeds health the change may well be an off shoot of breeding for coat or head or something else that has inadvertantly led to a smaller dog. In some breeds where the top winning dog has a remarkable coat, head or whatever, and does a lot of winning even if he is on the small side and throws pups who are small, will still be used, sometimes to excess, in the breeding programs of a majority breeders within that breed and if that happens within 10 years you have a smaller breed with lovley coats, heads or what ever.

I think size is something that swings about every generation or so. Even in my breed which has an ideal height, and therefore generally an allowance of an inch either side of this there have been trends in size in just the 10 years I have been involved with my breed.

It goes something like this, the current dogs in the ring appear to be getting too big/small, so when next breeding/selecting you try to pick a bigger/smaller one. A few years down the line the breed is swinging the other way,so off we go again trying to put this right.

So when the breed is tending to the smaller end, and those in the breed start thinking better stop this before it goes too far then breed specialists especially will be more forgiving of slightly oversized exhibits, but harder of those under the ideal height, and vice versa, when the breeed seems to be getting too bigf, then the opposite will be true.

The breed as a whole is probably still about the same with as many small too big ones born, but what is winning will change slightly from time to time.

I entered My friends Rough Collie in a couple of Champ Shows last year. He is 5 years old and never been shown. but I gave him a go as I felt he was good. When we stood in the ring in open dog he was much bigger than anything in there and didnt get placed. We measured him when I got home and he was 23 in at the shoulder.
My own bitch who people say is a big girl is just under 21in She always looks big in the ring !!!!!!!!!!! Both are in the middle of the breed standard size

In my opinion some Golden Retrievers are getting too small,especially the bitches
They are getting too short in the leg.Some I also feel are looking like small labradors
I went to one show and overheard a conversation when in Any variety Gundog
the poeple were trying work out wether the judge was going over alab or a Golden.
In fact it was a Golden but I nearly looked twice,worrying eh?

Briony :-)

Hi Briony

I agree with your comment about "too short" in the leg - I have seen a few like this.
Apart from them I'm not sure I've seen many too small as such (presuming you mean height). Phoebie often can appear as one of the smaller bitches (but leg length in proportion) - she is however a good 21" so smack bang in the middle of the desired size. We have to choose where we stand in a class as if we are next to a big bitch (maybe even too tall ;) ) she can look too small when she's not.

SaraW :)

So long as the breed is in the height range for the breed standard an experience
judge would be able to tell wether your dog wa s too small or tall .BUT short
legs on golden that is classed as a medium to large breed looks unattractive
and can throw the rest of the dog out of proportion and would have difficulty doing the job
it was originally bred for.My bitch Amber is at the upper end of the height range
for a bitch but within the breed Standard,certainly has no problems jumping a 5 bar gate
unlike some of the shorter leg varieties who don't have the correct height required.However some people thing she is too big
What I say is when compared to other dogs she is in the correct height range

Briony :-)

This must be one of those questions which swings across all breeds, large and small. Lot of cackling ringside recently with the American Cockers - who is too big and too small!!! We have an ideal height, top bitch/top gundog for last 2 years is exactly in the middle of this ideal, yet people still criticise her for being too small! This may be related to the height of her handler, of course. However, it has become noticeable recently that bigger and bigger are creeping into the placings - at a recent club show, in the dog challenge line up, the tallest present was the monor puppy! (and the othere wre not small dogs either). Personally, I dont object to biggish (but not enormous) getting deserved placings against lesser dogs in other ways, but get annoyed if they are put over correct sized dogs, and then the correct ones are slated for being too small. Lot of muttering going on about measuring being needed, and I know 1 judge who is considering it for his appointment this year!
Gwen

I have had exactly this problem, and it riles me!!:) My dog is a half-inch over the ideal height for his breed, and I get many comments along the lines of "What a shame he's so small". The 'old-school' judges are the ones who recognise the correct height - unfortunately with the passage of time there are fewer of these about! I'm the first to admit my dog has his faults, but his height isn't one of them!

GSP's, Hungarian Viszla's, Rhodesian ridgebacks...these are a few of the breeds I've noticed a bit difference in size & bone now...some Viszla's are tiny, they would be lucky to be able to carry the game they are required to in their native country.

Likewise in my own breed, we have some big dogs but also some "finer" smaller types. It seems to be the norm now, I don't mind them smaller infact my Curtis is a small Munster dog but I hate weediness with it, you can still have substance with a smaller dog.

One of my SWD's is too tall for a bitch, not that this really matters as most of the time the judges don't know what they are judging!!!!