Hi all
just a quick question-what is your opinions on dog aggression at dog shows?We went BOB today at an open show and stayed for Best in show.We went in behind the BOB doberman who was very aggressive towards any other dog within stricking distance .We gave him loads of room (at least 2 lead lengths)and my lad didn't even look at him(loads of nice smells on the floor) but he persisted in lunging at my boy big style throughout the whole proccedure.Luckily Asa was totally unfased as he thinks aggressive dogs are just a nuisance not worthy of so much as a grumble but if it had been a nervous dog or handler it may have been a different story.I can't help but feel that if a dog cannot be trusted to at least be sociable when there are no reasons to cause offence(eg eye-balling etc) that they should not be in the ring.Am I being unreasonable.
Archer

Hi Archer
Considering all aspects should be taken into account I think really temperament should be considered also .
No good having a lovely looking dog if it is too aggresive . Just my opinion .
Although I suppose every dog does have its off day - and maybe with the heat etc it may feel a bit grumbley and irritable ?
Lel

id of left a "HUGE" gap making it very noticable why!!!!!! , and no, its not on,

Hi Lel,
I think it was more than an off day as the owners seemed very aware of the dogs misbehaviour and seemed prepared(if inadequately) for the aggression.It was very cool if not chilly in the venue today and all other dogs behaved well in the BIS ring(so no provocation) with no response to this dogs antics.I am understanding of aggression if a dominant dog is given the eye by another male or if it is being crowded but I could see no reason apart from bad temperament for todays outbursts.
Archer

I think there is no excuse then
Lel

My mentor nearly 30 years ago told me that the most beautiful dog in the world is useless if it has a bad temperament. It's something that's stuck with me.

Just out of interest, did he do anything???

Also well done, which of the boys went BOB, the elder or younger?

I know a lot of Dobes, and they can be male to male dominant, but should not be firing up unless some other male is catching their eye.

Hi Barbara
Do you mean did Asa do anything to cause the aggression?I can honestly say NO.I have never met a more non-confrontational dog than Asa -he never so much as met the dogs gaze(he couldn't care less if there was another dog in the world as long as there are lots of people to stroke him!!-in fact he couldn't even be bothered with the bitch in heat whos owner was sat next to me )Or do you mean did he react-only with his look of 'whats his problem mum??'
It was the Older of my 2 who went BOB- I was soooo shocked when Lynn gave it too him since there were some much more mature dogs there and Asa behaved like a kangaroo on speed in his class(and then like a perfect angel with my 9 year old handling in the challenge!!)Typical.
Nikki.

I think Barbara means did the dobe do anything, ie get placed at all? At least, that's what I would like to know, out of interest. :)

Ahhhh!! Am I thick or what!No he wasn't placed
Archer

Yep, that is what I meant. There is nothing guaranteed to send the message home than for dogs displaying unacceptable behaviour being asked to leave the ring.

If these dogs don't place or win, then they won't be shown, and hopefully not bred from. A dog may have an off day, had a confronmtation with another dog, bitches in season, but if it behaves badly ansd is excused, then if this is it's usual behaviour the owner will give up showing it, if it is a one off, then the owner will just loose out at that show.

No I meant did the Dobe do anything winnind=g wise after displaying it's bad behaviour. I know Asa doesn't 'get' aggression, being as he lives with other males :D

Dont ever go and watch the Malamutes then ;) There is always a huge gap between the boys as they can be very anti with other males ;)

Melody :)

Theres a girl who knows her male mals ;) I don't know anything about dobes but its true that male mals have a big gap between them and eye balling is a BIG no-no. Its a dominance thing with mals but as I said my knowledge about dobes is limited, maybe he was a particularly dominant one or having an off day.

When judging at a recent open show I was aware of several incidents where dogs had flown at each other. It was quite disturbing and one spate brought the hall to a stand still. No excuse I feel for that sort of behaviour especially as the hall was not crowded. I saw a rough collie take not just one but two pot shots at the judge when it was being examined.
When I judged at a Lurcher show last year I was nipped by a lurcher which is highly unusual. As the owner left the ring they were told by other exhibitors to take the dog home and dont even consider breeding from it or bringing it to a show again!!!

At Alton show yesterday, there was a Tibetan Spaniel who kept flying out at any other dog walking past, minding their own business. In the end the owner had to wedge him under her chair to prevent him having a go, so he then barked and snarled from there! He then went in for Best in show and continued this behaviour.
I can understand the male to male dominance when a dog is eyeballed or crowded by another male, but to me this kind of agression should not be tolerated, no matter what size the dog is.
Liz

Hi
I think its different when a dog is person aggressive there is no excuse for this, but some males who have been used at stud are very dominant, this is not really a fault in temperament. However mine wont start first but will have a go back. But if someone knows they have an aggressive dog they should leave a wide berth and be totally aware and short tight lead, i'd go ballistic if another dog got hold of one mine.
Tracey

I do wish judges would be tougher on dogs with obvious poor temperaments and ask them to leave the ring. Other exhibitors, their dogs and the judges should not feel at risk in the ring and it would send a message to breeders to insist on good temp in their breeding stock. I remember a Crufts BIS a few years ago that visibly went for the judge when being awarded his ultimate prize!! Disgraceful. :-o

I think I know the exact dog you mean, WL, and those were mu thoughts exactly - disgraceful! The commentator if i remember even excused this which was even worse!


I attended a small local show on Good Friday, one dog had a go at 3 others and I nearly didn't go in for our Stays as I was worried that if my young bitch got attacked in the ring doing a Stay it would put her right off. Luckily the owners kept right at the end and it was fine (I kept well away!) but it wasnt very pleasant.

Later the dog lunged at a GSD who got seriously told off for retaliating which I personally felt a bit unfair, the GSd hadn't done anything and couldnt be expected not to defend himself.

At least I now know tokeep an eye out for this dog, but it's much better if it can be avoided completely. Of course, it is much worse if the dog is placed in a show and there is the possibility it may be bred from :(

Lindsay

Forgive me for being thick, but is it normal to take a bitch in season to a dog show?
Surely you're asing for trouble
Rose

No, it's not normal to take a bitch in season to a show, but if you have a bitch in season at home, some of the scent is likely to travel with you, either on you or on your other dog/s.

That said, sometimes people do take bitches either at the beginning or very end of their season, but they (the people) tend not to be very popular! :)

Th bitch next to me that was in season was a 6 month old puppy elkhound who was showing no signs of a season at the start of the day.She had rolled on her back several times during the morning and there was nothing but when she rolled over at 2/3 o'clock pm she was bleeding slightly.Her owner was apologetic and sighed saying that all the shows she had lined up for the next couple of weeks or so were going to be missed.
These things happen I suppose,Archer

Yes, these things happen! My bitch puppy did the same, and boy, did I get some dirty looks! Luckily the dogs had finished so it was only bitches in the ring, and I kept wiping her with a damp flannel etc, but it was sooo disappointing.
:)

I agree that aggression should not be excused but I do believe there are many reasons for it which can be missed by us humans, in particular dog body language. My personal opinion is that if a dog is aggressive to people then there is no way whatsoever this dog should be shown or bred from etc. Also if it has a reputation for being nasty with every dog it meets. However I think when it happens at a show you have to way up the whole scenario before branding the dog as being aggressive or the owners irresponsible. IMO shows are not a normal environment and we are asking a lot of our dogs.

I had my 2 year old male at a show. He can be a bolshy buggar at times but deep down a big softy. A male GWP was eye balling him and so he growled at him. I told him off big style, well as much as you can without making a scene. Whilst I understood why he did it, he saw it as a challenge from another male, I still felt I had to tell him I wasn't happy with his behaviour. Then another lady with a bitch GWP walked right past me and the lady with the male told her to be careful :-( Whilst I kept my boy distracted from the bitch because he still felt tense I wasn't worried he would do anything because there was no challenge. I just looked at the 2 lady's in question, feeling quite hurt. Then to my surprise the bitch GWP proceeded to growl at the male GWP !! So much for her needing to be careful near my boy :-( Not long after I walked past a group of 6mth old dogs, some of them male and my boy didn't batter an eyelid.

Last year I was in the ring and had my boy stacked head to head with another male. Stupid I know and now I'm more experienced I would never let this happen again. The other dog, unbeknown to me, had shown signs of being aggressive before. He growled at my boy who then growled back and the pair of them were pulling to get to each other. However, my boys lead snapped. He bolted out of the ring in fear. He only reacted the way he did because he was stuck on the lead, couldn't use the flight option, he won't freeze so he had to fight !!??!! The minute the flight was an option he took it. Now had he still been on the lead I bet he would have looked aggressive but he wasn't he was very frightened. Thankfully someone caught him but he was shaking so much that he didn't even recognise my voice for a few seconds. :-( I beat myself up big time for weeks over this incident. I blamed myself entirely and I was gutted at seeing my boy so frightened. I was also worried that people would think I had an aggressive dog. Then at crufts the very same dog decided to show his aggression in the ring, lunging at any dog he could get near and dragging his poor owner all over the place. I really felt sorry for her but at least it confirmed to me that it definately wasn't my dog who started anything.

I know there are dogs out there with not the best of temperaments but I really do think that to be fair, we shouldn't judge a dog or handler from what we see, unless we are seeing the aggression on a regular basis. Having said all this, I keep my dog on a very short lead when at a show, I don't allow him to sniff other dogs unless I know them and I won't allow him to go head to head with any other dog unless he knows them. Perhaps if other exhibitors were aware of their dogs behaviour and didn't wander round with leads as long as washing lines we might all see less bad behaviour at shows, with the exception of bad temperaments.

Claire,

I just read your post, and had to tell you....We took our male GSD to his first exemption show last year (started on Open now....so we're getting there!!!) We were in the ring, and there was another GSD, also a dog, going absolutely nuts. I remember thinking at the time, that dog should not be in this ring....as I was thinking that, the other GSD's lead snapped, and he ran straight over to my lad. Can you imagine the panic?? This GSD tried to attack my dog (who was being handled by hubby) Hubby managed to grab hold of the other dogs scruff....I don't know how...superhuman strength or something!! The owner eventually ambled over to my hubby after having a good laugh with his cronies outside the ring and got his dog back...Anyway, after all that!! What I was going to say was...my lad behaved really well, he growled, but didn't even try to retaliate. I was so proud of him!! Even more so when he got second!!
He got a lot of treats and fuss that night!!

Just thought I'd share this with ya!

Take care,
Lisa

Hi,
Just to add my little bit! - I agree that showing agression is unacceptable. Luckily rarely happens in my breeds (at least , never yet seen it with PUGS;)) aand only the very occassional American Cocker. I know a dog was imported a couple of year ago who turned out to have a very bad temperament - both towards dogs and people, and cause a problem in the ring a couple of times. He was promptly returned to the USA by his disappointed buyers. We did see him showing out there last year (looking a bit doped up) and have since heard he has been put to sleep. Of course an aggrssive Yankee is a lot less intimidating that some of the big breeds.

I go to a couple of training classes which have recently become frequented by a whole lot of Dogues de Bordeaux, and 2 or 3 incidents have broken out with them, not in the ring, but while sitting waiting. Luckily they have not reacted to either the Pugs or the baby Americans, but when a bigger breed (last week a Golden Retreiver and a GWP) attempted to walk past the Dogues reacted aggressively. We were very worried when towards the end of the class, when we had the pups on the floor, one of the Dogue pups (a very big pup!) was sitting just at the edge of the mat, his lead being held by a little girl, perhaps 8 or 9 years old. The pup was obviously quite a lot heavier than the child, and we decided discretion was the better part of valour and took the pups off the floor rather than having to pass under the Dogues nose. I hate to sound prejudiced against a breed - in fact, the individual Dogues I have met seem friendly and charming, so I dont know if it is just this particular bunch (there are about 6 or 8 at each class), but my sneaking suspicion is that it is the handlers, not the dogs. If you know your dog has a habit of lungeing at other passing dogs, dont sit with him in a position others need to get by! It takes so little to put a pup off, people could perhaps look at the bigger picture and not be so tunnel visioned about there own position. Shwoing should be fun, why make it miserable for others?
bye
Gwen

Hi Claire

I agree with much of what you say and agree that males will sometimes strut around and try to prove themselves! My male is good with other dogs and excellent with people but if a dog has a go at him, he will have a go back. Like you, I try to stop this on the rare occasions it has happened and he certainly never starts the aggro. There are certain dogs we avoid though that are known for being aggressive. Aggression generally though is a big no no in my book and aggression towards people is inexcusable.

I think I was at the show that you mention. Do you have a weim and was the show in the North of England? I certainly could see from the other side of the hall that it wasnt your dog causing the problem and I really felt for you and your poor dog when he bolted from the ring.

Abby

Hi Abby

Yes that was me - unfortunately :-( I was in for the challenge and the steward was trying to cram us all onto the mat which mean't the two males' noses were almost touching. In the end I had to stack my boy facing a young pup and away from the other dog and he instantly calmed down.

I brought him back in again a while later for another class because I didn't want him frightened of the venue or ring, hmmmm he was okay-ish but not great :-(

It was awful. I'm just thankful someone caught him because if he'd ran out of the building, well you know how busy that main road is :-( I ran over to him and he was shaking, I was wispering in his ear and had to say his name about 4 times before he would even look at me.

I do feel very sorry for the other owner though, especially when her dog misbehaved at Crufts of all places. The poor girl was being pulled all over the place but what didn't help matters was another exhibitor allowed her dog to keep eyeballing this other dog so no wonder he was hyper :-( This is what I mean when I say we should always be aware of what our dog is doing at the end of the lead and how little things like eye contact can be very easily missed.

Hi Claire

Im pleased your boy seems to be getting over it now. I was petrified as I saw him running towards the door and was so relieved somebody had quick enough wits to catch him. Hope it never happens again.

Abby

I suppose one of my main concerns is that my daughter who is 9 is very keen to start showing my older elkie.She handled him to his best of breed on sunday but I decided to take him into the best in show ring(thankfully).I know my boy is totally reliable and will not react but I am worried about allowing my daughter to take him in with dogs I don't know.In breed classes we are lucky that there is never (in the 2 years I've been showing anyway) any serious aggression so I am happy for her to show then but its different in a mixed breed ring.
Archer

Hi Archer

I think you are best to carry on as you are doing until you can be sure your daughter can hold the dog and handle him in the best way in tricky situations. Sad though for her as she probably feels a bit cheated that she cant finish the job off by taking him into the group rings but better to be safe than sorry. What a shame though that it has to be a consideration...

Abby