Can anyone tell me why it is so difficult to be involved in the dog world I am a hobby breeder and so put off showing my dogs due to the cattiness of other breeders. I have been breeding for three yrs and cannot stand breeders thinking they are so superior to others when we are all into the same interests. A friend of mine bought a pup off a breeder in which the agreement was to follow the documentation through the post, but 6 mths later and many phone calls there is still no paperwork but many excuses are told. So as I have more experience in this I gave a polite call to the breeder on her behalf, the breeder asked who I was and I said I too was a breeder he replied "if you are a breeder then you'll know exactly who I am" then reeled off all his sh ch pedigrees then asked what status my dogs were. He then tried to fob me off with excuses and told me to phone the kennel club to put me in the picture my response to this is that if you are such a reputable breeder why can't you get you're a**e into gear on pups which you sold six mths ago.There are thousands of breeders in the UK so why does he think I should no exactly who he was? I felt so undermined by this breeder. I have read articles about obsessed breeders like this who have to use fertility treatment on their dogs as they are physically exhausted through being shown with all the travelling, waiting in crates then running their circuits to be judged when does the show dog have time to run in the fields, roll in the grass and jump in the lake for a swim? The truth in my eyes is in some cases their dogs are nothing but ornaments and some white coated breeds aren't even allowed outside in the sun in case the sun bleaches their coats. My six dogs go in the fields every day they love rolling in dirt and jumping into lakes for a swim. They are happy with their lifestyles so just because I don't want to be involved in the cattiness of showing why should I be judged?

Hi Guest,
All I can say is the Breeders I got my dogs from were very helpfull. All the documentation was there when I collected my pups; and the pups welfare was their priorty.
The parent dogs were happy healthy dogs who enjoyed a normal life, certainley not kept as ornaments. It seems unfair to tar all breeders with the same brush. There is good and bad in all walks of life; perhaps you have been unlucky with the people you've met.

Regards

Liberty

My definition of a Hobby breeder is someone who shows or works their dogs, and breeding is part of this.

I have had two breeds and all the breeders and exhibitors I met have been only too happy to add new blood to their ranks.

One does have to make the effort to get involved.

If you have a deep interest in your breed you would usually know of the main lines and current and past top breeders, and if you are breeding but seem not to know much about the breed then you may encounter hostility as someone who might be exploiting the breed.

Certainly it is in the Kennel Clubs Code of ethics that Registration papers should be available when pups are homed. At one time they were taking up to 8 weeks to get the paperwork sorted, but in the last 3 years Registrations have taken less than two weeks on average.

Everyone that i know who breeds and shows has dogs that lead a normal dogs life. Showing is only a small part of their life, as even the most dyed in the wool exhibitor would be hard put to show more than twice a week in the UK.

I have only been to For events this year, two special contests, Crufts and a Group Open Show. In a busy year I would perhaps attend 25 shows, 8 or 10 Chapionship, 5 to 10 Opwn and 5 to 10 Exemption (now Companion Dog shows). There are those that show most weekends, but that still leaves 5 or 6 days a week for the dog to be a dog!

Dogs do actually enjoy going to shows, those that don't do not do any good, and there is little point in taking them.

"I have been breeding for three yrs and cannot stand breeders thinking they are so superior to others when we are all into the same interests."
One of the reasons that people show their dogs is to prove that they good enough quality and typical of the breed standard to be bred from. So to breed from your dogs and then think about showing them is putting the cart before the horse to me. I wouldn't agree that "we are all into the same interest" as your interest is to produce puppies, without proving the quality of your dogs first. If you then antagonise and experienced exhibitor/breeder by trying to tell them what to do, then maybe that is why you were treated with a little hostility.

I agree that Kennel Club documentation should be available with puppies these days, or at least an explanation if there has been a hiccup. Even problems are sorted in a few days with the new system.

Judging should only come (if you are invited because your opinion is respected) after many years of experience of exhibiting. Try going to shows and listen and learn from people with years worth of experience in your chosen breed. You will certainly find nice and not so nice people at dog shows, as you do in all walks of life. But if you ask their opinion on the quality of your dogs, don't be upset if they say what you don't want to hear!

Quite right, Val. We all have to start at the bottom of the heap and gradually work our way up. After nearly 30 years in my breed, but not done a huge amount of showing or breeding due to many other commitments, I reckon I'm about halfway now.
:)

Would agree entirely Val - but do also know someone personally (a very pleasant and sensible person) who has an 18 month old dog from a very famous breeder of our acquaintance - and still has no papers, all she gets is hostility if she tries to deal with this. Not a good situation, nor a good reflection on our hobby to those who don't know it :(

How's the decorating going?

M.

I'm sure that I know who you mean Marina. It's "normal" for that kennel. Every breed has one!! ;)
Decorating starts tomorrow!!

Very unfortunate for people who go to what should be a high quality kennel though, and pay the highest prices in our breed at the moment, and now have an unregistered dog - I certainly don't send puppy enquiries that way any more .............

M.

If you are involved in the same breed as the person you rang, and he has bred loads of champions, it would be expected you would know him, from pedigree research if nothing else. Of course, if it is a different breed possibly not. Perhaps he actually has a genuine reason or problem? Did you actually ring the KC as he suggested? We often dont register pups until they are approaching 6 months, as we hang on to find out which we are keeping, and which names we want ourselves. In our case this does not interfer with the pet puppy buyer, as we dont allow our pets to be sold with papers (we have previously discussed this on the board) but sometimes show puppy buyers have to hang on. However, this is made clear at the time of purchase. Any number of problems can occur, and whilst the KC is now really quick in processing registrations all sorts or proceduarl things can crop up (eg, affix holder details changes, needing transfers signed and other party away, waiting for export/certified pedigrees if dog or bitch not UK etc etc to name just a few hold ups we have had recently) So not wanting to seem too partisan to either side, without the full details people on this board answering you can only give general ideas as we dont have the full details.

However, your sweeping generalistation about show dogs being exhausted is just not true! Any dog who was treated like this, (and ther are not enough shows in the UK to make it feasible anyway, is anyone was loony enough to want to tlry it) would not be a show dog long! The essence of a succesful show dog is that he loves it, a reluctant or tired dog simplly wont show at all, or wont show his best so wont win. And all the show dogs I know (apart from some of the toys who couldnt cope with it) get loads of excercise, both off the lead and on it - it is essential for muscle tone and a happy frame of mind, leaving aside the fact that for most owners this is one of the joys of dog ownership. We have a long coated, heavily groomed breed, but from 14 weeks old out dogs and pups go to the beach, to the park and through fields with muddy ditches and puddles. They run, roll and generally have a wild time. Just means we have a lot of bathing and drying to do when we get home. With the toys it is a bit different, cant take the Pugs to the beach as the sand can be dangerous to the eyes, but they thoroughly enjoy running in the park and through the fields - recently had one of our promising 8 month old Pug pups up to her tummy in the muddiest ditch you have ever seen, with Mike wading along the bottom trying to catch up with her and 6 other pugs hovering on the brink, all obviously think it looked enormous fun and wondering if they should jump in too - just wished I had had a camera with me.

Reputable, responsible breeders are often wary of reeders who "just breed". I dont know enough about you to make a judgement, but you say you are a hobby breeder. Most hobby breeders I know are also exhibiotrs too, and want to breed better, the improvement of the breed being the goal, with the improvemnt on ones own stock being the bonus! People in this category dont tend to make much money, as the cost are high, what with keeping the dogs in the best condition, travellin to the best stud, whelping and rearing cost, then keepin best pup to show, run on, breed on from etc, and often giving (or selling for a small amount) other promising pups to friends so they too can show etc. Consequently, they can be forgiven for being wary of those who title themselves "hobby" when waht they mean is "pocket money" breeders, taking a few litters each year purely for the sales value. Dont know which you fall in to, perhaps you would like to tell us your breeding reasons and ethics?

I started showing dogs about 8 or 9 years ago, and like any new interest was met with open arms by many, and disinterest by a few. This is human nature, I think. Have recently moved to exhibiting a new breed (pugs) which I am actually handling myself for the first time, having had top dogs in my original breed. Having just exhibited at my first Ch show among a whole lot of strangers I was met with a "cautious" welcome by most people, no one was effusive, but everyone was polite, helpful where needed, and supportive when my pup was being a little difficult, just what I would have expected as a "newbie" in most walks of life, from starting a new job to taking a college course!

I hope you feel a little better from getting your complaints off your chest, but please dont berate showing and show dogs without some in depth knowledge.

Gwen

Put so much better than me :D

Brilliantly put Gwen:D

Pam n the boys

Funny isn't it, how people's exeriences can differ so much - I've just posted on the Breeding forum about how much help the top breeders do give and then come across this one! Don't be discouraged - we've found that every encouragement has been given to us with our selected breed - and we are SO green!! I think that so long as you are doing the best you possibly can for your chosen breed, encouragement comes along - that has been our experience.

Just keep in there, asking the questions, and someone will give you the encouragement that you need.

somehow I doubt that this guest will be trip trapping back across the bridge to reply to her answers!

You might be right Sam, probably gone trip trapping somewhere else, but at least Gwen has written a thoughful and interesting piece for anyone else who is interested!

Thnks for the appreciation, everyone.
Gwen