I looked at a five week old pup with a view to buying it but it had a noticeable swelling on the lower joint of the leg, with little puncture marks on each side, like a bite. The swelling was firm and not hot and the injury had presumably occurred some considerable time before because the puncture marks had healed. The pup was slightly lame but cheerful and playful. Following my pointing out that there was an injury the pup has been put on antibiotics and I am told that the swelling is now gone (it was a week ago) and the pup is fine. I am at a distance so I can't check this myself. I now don't know whether to buy the pup or not. People are telling me that an injury like that at that age could have later repercussions because the bones are growing so fast and there may be bone or cartilege damage. Others say that it should be all right. I can't look at the pup again before purchase due to the distance. Does anyone have any comments on this? I am interested in the pup but I don't want a dog that might not be sound when I am paying a high price for it.

I personally wouldn't be to sure with this breeder. Y didn't they notice the sore leg at all and it took someone else to point it out? That poor puppy.

ttfn :)

if it got a problem,be careful,ask your vet advies first,beacuse if the condition it there when your vet see it will not be insured,i would think twice

My only reservation would be that the breeder didn't even notice the injury until you pointed it out!!! Personally I would find a more knowledgable breeder!

Thanks Sam, actually I'm sure the breeder knew the injury was there but hadn't done anything about it, probably hoping that it would heal itself and maybe not be noticed by potential buyers. But because I drew attention to it, and I am a potential buyer, the pup was taken to the vet. My problem now is whether or not to buy the pup, whether the injury is likely to have ongoing effects. Thanks.

Paddy,

I would not buy the puppy. It could well be that the puppy broke or fractured its leg and the effects of the injury will only show themselves in the months ahead.

Stacey

Thanks Stacey. I was worried about that. But the pup was using the leg. It had a slight limp but it was not favouring the leg. I was rather hoping it means that the injury is not serious. But I just don't know. In other respects the pup is what I want, and I don't want to show it. But I do want it to be sound because it will have an active life with me. I don't know what the situation is with a breeder if you buy a pup in a case like this and it ends up with some ongoing problems.

I think you should have this puppy. It needs to go to someone who cares and it sounds to me as if you fit the bill :) Maybe the leg will give problems in the future but just imagine if the breeder lets it go to someone who won't look after it properly.

We bought a pup with dislocated knees but we didn't know about it until a week after we brought him home. We could have returned him but he was such a lovable, affectionate little chap. We just think we were meant to have him, problems and all !!

(Sorry to pull at your heartstrings!)

Joyce

Thanks Joyce. Actually I do want the pup, poor little fellow, I did feel sorry for him with his leg and I did worry about someone getting him who didn't know about it. But everyone tells me you should never buy a pup because you feel sorry for it! But I have done this in the past and had some wonderful dogs as a result.

Paddy - Sorry, but I disagree with Joyce's advice. You should only buy any puppy if you are 100% happy with what you are getting. That may well include it having an existing illness or condition, but you take the puppy on that basis, not because you feel sorry for it. It's not your reponsibility to provide that puppy a good home, it's the breeder's. If you are looking to buy a well bred healthy puppy, and you don't think applies to this one you should walk away. If on the other hand you are happy to take on what might be a problem puppy, then you have to take it on those conditions and be prepared for everything that might go with it.

Good luck whichever way you go - but please make the decision either way yourself.

Pam n the boys

I'm with you Pam - if only because if there are buyers happy to pay good money for dogs not bred with avoidance of hereditary defects in mind, there is no incentive for breeders to take more care in the future :(

Marina

Marina - exactly. It is hard to walk away, but the more people that do will reduce the market for pups not bred with the welfare of the animals concerned in mind and might just stop one or two doing it. Instead of which, people let emotions rule and the problem self perpetuates:(

Pam n the boys

Pam, thanks for the good advice, I agree, and it doesn't really conflict with what I said in response to Joyce. I did feel sorry for the wee pup, he was such a tough little chap, but if I took him it would not be only because I felt sorry for him, it would also be because he has the potential to be a very nice dog, regardless of the leg. I have a rescue labrador, the wee runt of a big litter who never grew and has funny badly formed front legs and doesn't even look like a lab. I did feel very sorry for her, she was timid and the one at the bottom of the pecking order, but I accepted all of this and took her knowing that she could turn out well with a proper home, and she really did, she is a fabulous little character. I recognise the risks of taking any dog ONLY because you felt sorry for it. My problem is trying to gauge whether the injury will heal with no lasting effects, or whether it will give ongoing problems. And whether you pay full price for a pup under these conditions.

Paddy - what you pay for the pup comes down to what you are willing to pay for it. The breeder, if in it for the money, will probably try and get as much as they can for him. Again, this could leave you feeling emotionally blackmailed and paying more than you would want to pay taking this problem into account.

There is nothing to stop you looking at this puppy again, when you can (I understand distance is a little problem here) and then saying no to the breeder if you think there are going to be ongoing problems that you do not want to take on. You have that right. If the breeder is a reasonable person, they should see the pup, if not fully cured, should not attract a top notch price and reduce it to recognise this and the risk you take in incurring ongoing vetinary fees for further treatment. On the other hand, if the breeder genuinely hadn't seen the lump, has since had him to the vets and the antibiotics clear it all up, then you are in a more positive situation. Has the breeder given you any assurances of ongoing support for the puppy?

It is a real toughie - but I would not be willing to pay top notch for a dog that was not top notch. Perhaps when you see it next, all will be well and the leg healed. Have you spoken to the breeder recently? I know you said the pup had been to the vets and has had antibiotics. What did the breeder tell you the vet's verdict had been? I would use all that in deciding whether I wanted to go any further with this. If you have doubts, then you probably have your answer and seeing the puppy again would only make it harder to say no. If you do decide to go ahead then make sure you have a written agreement that details whether the pup is well or has an ongoing problem. That will help should anything untoward happen in the future that the breeder knew and didn't declare to you.

It is fine to take a puppy with problems, after all people and animals can and do have problems, but it just all needs to reflect the nature and severity of the problems.

hth

Pam n the boys

Paddy,

If you are in a real dilemna about this puppy then ask the breeder to have the leg x-rayed and checked by the vet. You will probably need to pay for the x-ray, however. The x-ray should show any congenital problems which will not go away, or any damage caused by a break or fracture. If the puppy is limping there is something wrong and you need to know whether it is transient, like a bad muscle pull, an infection or disease, or something permanent.

Personally, I would not take the puppy without an x-ray - even if the vet says the leg "looks" okay. It really is better to at least start off with a healthy puppy rather than one that might face a lifetime of pain and problems.

Stacey

Stacey,

Funny you should suggest this, I decided last night that this would be my course of action. The breeder emailed yesterday and said that the leg is now fine, and there is no lameness, but the swelling I saw two weeks ago was not a minor thing so I decided that there would have to be an X-ray before I took the pup, just in case there had been a fracture or something. But I thought that the breeder should surely pay for this, isn't it their responsibility to prove to me that a pup that I saw was injured is now sound? Especially if I am paying full price? Thanks for the comments, it helps me to make up my mind. I do want the pup, it's a breed I've had for years but pups are now hard to find, but I just want to try to think through all the ramifications.

A puppy that I was keeping for new owners because of a holiday booking took a tumble off the back step chasing it's mother and other adults. it screamed in pain and was lame. Vet said it was OK, and gave painkillers.

It was only after a week that it felt like it had two knees in the front leg, and there was still a slight limp. It was sen by an Orthopaedic vet and xray showed that thre was a clean healing fracture of both the tibia and Fibula. We then had the leg imobilised in a cast for a couple of weeks to stabilise it.

Of course it cost me an arm and a leg, as pup hadn';t been paid for or transfered to new owners, so had no Insurance.

It then had a clean bill of health, and new owners were then happy to still have her, but still had me trot her up and down on a lead to prove it.

Now 3 years later she has no signof any problem, though there is always an increased liklihood of arthritis in old age in the site of any injury.

I certainly think that any health checks should be down to the breeder.

Paddy,

I agree the breeder should pay for the X-ray, but she should have noticed the pup was injured in the first place. And you have not said that she took the puppy to the vet after you noticed. So, my assumption was that the breeder is not likely to pay for an X-ray. Should she -- absolutely.

Stacey

Stacey,

The story with the leg was that I drove down to look at the pup when he was five weeks old and noticed that the joint was swollen, a firm swelling that was not hot to the touch. The breeder did not mention it, although this was one of two pups that I had come to see. When I pointed it out she then said the pup had been trodden on by its mother the day before (it seems however that the injury was done long before because it was not hot, the swelling was firm, and there was a healed up bite mark on the side of the joint). When I expressed considerable concern about this she said she would take the pup to the vet the following day (still maintaining that the pup had been trodden on the day before). I went home and by email she then told me that she had done this and that the vet had said that it looked like a bite and he put the pup on a week's antibiotics and said that should clear it up. This is nearly two weeks ago now. The latest email report from the owner a few days ago (I am too far away to go to see the pup again), is that the leg is fine and there's no lameness. From what others have been saying though, on this site and elsewhere, it could perhaps have been a fracture. I should really insist on an X-ray and I will put this to the breeder. I don't have confidence that the pup has been brought up with care. But that in itself wouldn't stop me from taking it, the breeding is good, and once it is with me it will have the best of care and every chance to develop properly.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice, it has been very helpful. It will be resolved within the next week as the pup is ready for collection just after Easter. I'll keep you all posted. :) :)

Must be just me that has a soft heart, then. I still think it's better that a pup with a potential problem goes to someone who'll do their best for it than to someone who won't be bothered.

You've already proved this, Paddy, with your rescue lab.

You are right Joyce but the bill for treatment, if it is an on going problem could be very high. I think it best that Paddy finds out the extent of the problem before going too far. I know it is a dirty word but money must be taken into account when taking on a dog with an unknown problem.

Regards, John

Paddy you said you are paying a lot for this pup, how about asking for a discount?

Also the pup will have the 6 weeks free health insurance and if you buy him, on his KC papers is a box the breeder must sign to say the pup has had vet treatment for a problem, and if it is still a prob or not. Mke sure she/he signs it to cover yourself.

I am guessing his littermate bit him, my pups are 5 weeks old now and fight each other quite alot, I am always hearing them squeal! There are 10 of them too.

K9