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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Golden's First Bite
- By Mason824 [us] Date 08.04.03 19:14 UTC
Cinci, our loveable Golden of 2 1/2 years bit my wife Sunday. She's been very gentle her entire life. We have a 18 month old son, which he and the dog are best of friends, they play together without incident. Cinci not only bit my wife (we are all very close with Cinci) once but kept biting (much more than just a snap). We have no resonable expanation for this and we are sick to our stomachs. Thank god it wasn't our son because he couldn't fight her off. She has never shown signs of aggression, but I'm not certain we will ever trust her again, we would never forgive ourselves if it happens to our son or anyone else's child. It would be a lot easier to make a decision had she done things in the past leading up to this attack, she has not, and has been a model house dog. Has anyone encountered such a thing? We are still in SHOCK and searching for answers.
- By Carla Date 08.04.03 19:23 UTC
Hi Mason

I have no practical advice for you, other than that I would, without exception, keep the dog away from your son at all times. I am sure people with more experience will be along shortly - and I believe this is not new to this breed (unpredictable snapping)... If it were me, the dog would have to go.

Am so sorry for you
Chloe
- By Mason824 [us] Date 08.04.03 19:32 UTC
She is definately leaving the house, as of today she is into her second day of a 10 day isolation in the basement (per our vet). The only person to be around her since this time is myself, that is only to go outside to potty, then it's back to the basement. I just don't want to give her to anyone not knowing if this will happen to them or not. I have called a behaviorist, at this time we are still playing phone tag, but I'm still curious if anyone else has had something similar to this.
- By ilovecockers [gb] Date 08.04.03 19:33 UTC
If she has just had one aggressive episode which is completely out of character, get her checked out by a vet. Pain can make even the most gentle dog snap. I knew of a golden retriever who suddenly snapped his owner when he was 5 and to the owner there was nothing apparent but a vet check revealed back pain. If she is given the all clear, then discuss with your vet waht the next stage would be.
- By Lindsay Date 08.04.03 20:40 UTC
I agree about the thorough vet check if this is a complete change of behaviour, it could mean she is unwell.

I am a bit worried she is allowed to play with your small son, are you certain she has not been pulled about and become stressed?

PUtting the dog in the basement for 10 days is not going to help her behaviour wise, although it will keep her away from your wife. A behaviourist may help but please ensure they are reputable with a good track record.

Lindsay
- By John [gb] Date 08.04.03 21:49 UTC
I know nothing about the temperament of Goldens in the USA but there are some very "Iffy" dogs getting around over here. Definitely not the way Goldens should be.

I must agree with what others have said about a veterinary examination. This should always be the first port of call in any sudden or unexpected change in behaviour. The next place to look is any change of conditions. Has anything changed? Possibly something which could cause jealousy? Extreme over tiredness?

Regards, John
- By Dawn B [gb] Date 08.04.03 21:54 UTC
As John says, Golden Retriever temperaments are "suspect" in many cases to say the least. If she is not ill, then it sounds to me like the typical synario we see here, one minute ok, the next biting without reason. I know what I would do if she were mine, ultimately you must make the decision you think is best for you and your family.
Dawn.
- By Mason824 [us] Date 09.04.03 03:25 UTC
I did finally talk with the behaviorist, she told me to take her to the vet for a complete physical, if everything is negative to call her back. I have to video Cinci during her everyday routine, eating, playing, and greeting us when we come home. After that we have a 3 hour consultation.

I grew up with large dogs and they can be just as gentle as the smaller ones, I will always want my children to know that, my son has known this dog since day one, they are buddies. We would never let him hurt the dog at all, not even pull her tail. They hug alot and play but that is the only contact we allow by either, he shall not pull and she shall not be rough, those our are rules and will always be. I can't be anything he has done.

I have noticed a change now that I think about it, she is aggressive about her food (atleast it's the only thing I've noticed). I have always reached my hand in her bowl while she was eating, since she's been a pup, just to let her know I'm not taking it. It never bothered her until a few days ago, she showed teeth to me, she didn't growl, I scorned her for it and that's as far as it went.
- By Rooney [gb] Date 09.04.03 07:06 UTC
Hi there,

I'm not an experienced dog owner but have had a golden that we had to let go.
He was only five months old, different than your dog but he bit my son badly and we had to rehome him.
Again, there was no reason for sonny to do this and it was totally unpredictable. He was checked over by the vet and given a clean bill of health.
I know that there have been problems with this breed which do seem to be on the increase.
I hope that you get your problem sorted out. I know we were devastated when we had to let Sonny go but yu have to do the best for all concerned.

Ruth
- By Brainless [gb] Date 09.04.03 08:12 UTC
I have heard anecdotally that some Goldens have had aggressive episodes almost like the rage syndrome found at one time mostly in Golden cockers (thankfully something that is rarer now).

Temeperament problems in breeds previously considered above reproach are in most part due to bad breedeing practices by those breeding primarily to feed a market for puppies. They don't bother to select with temperament in mind, and eventually a bad apple turns up and is bred from, many of its offspring will be fine, and then they are bred from and the odd one with a nasty streak turns up quite unexpectedly.

The ame can of course happen in show or working circles when a particularly lovely dog is forgiven or has a temeprament fault explained away, and then passes this or worse to the next generation.

Try some searches on Cocker rage, and see if you recognise the scenariuos in the descripotion. You said that not only did the dog bite but kept on biting!
- By Lindsay Date 09.04.03 17:01 UTC
I'm just a bit surprised that the dog is showing this behaviour so unusually at the age of 2 and a half. I mean, why now and so suddenly? Surely the dodgy goldies start to show behaviour like this at a much earlier stage, either puppyhood or adolescence when the hormones are raging. i do agree that the "kept on biting" bit is worrying :(

I always remember the tragic case of the GSD who was put to sleep after attacking the toddler of the family, and a post mortem revealed a pencil that the toddler had shoved right down into the dog's ear canal. Poor dog must have been in agony.

Best wishes
Lindsay
- By thistle [gb] Date 09.04.03 19:13 UTC
I agree with Lindsay. Sudden agressive behaviour at 2 and a half doesn't sound like 'bad blood'. Sounds more like the dog is unwell or has had a nasty experience. Still either way s/he needs to be kept away from your son. What a horrid situation for you.
Jane
- By briony [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:11 UTC
Hi I have 2 golden retrievers with the most wonderful temprements,I also have
4 children eldest 11yrs youngest 5months and in my experience I would not any
18 month old play with a dog its so easy for a toddler to accidently hurt a dog.

Keeping the dog in the basement even if is only for 10 days I think is personally
cruel,poor dog can't understand what it's done wrong epecially up till now it's been
the perfect house dog.Maybe you know of a relative or friend to have the dog for a week
instead of basement??
Also try ringing Golden Retriever Rescue they are very knowledgeable people
and may be able to help and advise.
I have to disagree on the temprements I would say on the whole golden tempprement
are very good but there is always dogs in any breed that do slip through and we
end up with a bad through.

You could also ring The Golden Retriever Club for advice email if you require
any numbers.

Good Luck,

Briony :-)
- By briony [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:27 UTC
Forgot also to say if you had the dog since puppy perhaps you could ring
the breeder,if she is a good breeder she/he would certainly want to try to help
and advise,I would want to know if I was the breeder.

Briony
- By John [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:58 UTC
I have to disagree with you about Golden temperaments Briony, there are good and bad in all breeds but unfortunately some goldens are not what they were. I possibly come up against more Goldens than most having quite a few Golden breeders amongst my friends. The last Golden to "Have a go" at me was a 15 week old dog puppy! I still have the marks on my leg from a 2 year old one who was brought to me having temperament problems. There are plenty of good Goldens but make no mistakes, there are some real rogues out there!

I have to agree with Lindsay about the age of this one though. That was who I made the comments about if anything had changed in the dog's life. In my experience with the Rage type condition it would be apparent by a year to 18 months at the latest, Note the 15 week old one above and another brought to me at about 26 weeks.

Regards, John
- By briony [gb] Date 11.04.03 09:39 UTC
Hi John,

Like you know lots of Golden breeders ,I also show to be honest there are some not so good
temprements in any breed.BUT I stand my ground that most Goldens are well
bred with excellent temprements but of course will always except there will be
afew exceptions.
I was showing at crufts came out of the ring and had to pass the labrador benching
one blacklab suddenly lunged at us as we walked pass bareing all its teeth.
Unfortunately the owner was'nt there otherwise I would have said something.
It would have been enough to put anyone off,luckily Amber was'nt a child,
she just ignored the dog and walked on.That does'nt mean all labs have a
temprement problem.I also had a relative who put a labrador put to sleep but
because it just would'nt stop snapping showing its teeth.
The rule is temprements must come first when choosing a puppy or dog of
ANY breed hips come a close second and the same with breeding if we keep
this in mind and use good breeders we won't go far wrong.

Regards Briony :-)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 11.04.03 12:34 UTC
I would agree that the circles we mix in both breeds are pretty good (I have also had a black lab attack one of my bitches in passing at a show!) but with the amount of both breeds that are frankly bred only for profit, a worrying number are coming through with bad tempers.

Decent breeders I would hopw will always put tmeperment first and foremost, as without that you have nothing!
- By dizzy [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:12 UTC
or reaching maturity and taking a chance !!!! as someone else said, i know what id do if it where mine, providing there was no medical reason, and even then id probably worry too much to keep it with a child, your wifes probably terrified of it now too,
- By lel [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:25 UTC
Whatever the reason for the biting I would have thought that leaving her in a basement for 10 days would make her more anxious and upset than anything . Surely putting her in kennels away from the family would be better than that :(
It is a hard decision to make if you have a child especially -but would anyone consider it a one off or would you class it as one strike only ?
Lel
- By Wendy J [gb] Date 09.04.03 21:47 UTC
I was just about to say exactly the same thing. A bad ear infection can cause a normally gentle dog to go bullistic if touched wrong because the pain is unbearable. It sounds like a pain reaction from the way you describe it. Certainly have a full check done on her before making any decisions and in the meantime keep her away from the baby.

Wendy
- By marla [gb] Date 11.04.03 12:50 UTC
A dog who is biting i would put the dog down. No matter what. The goldens are phroned slowlu to biting out of the blue. It's also not only in the states. It's in germany as well. Golden killed a kid. Its about the breed itself. Inbreed and line breeding. Just rush rush making money. Goldens ar ean overbred breed. Number one.

I have heard one time that a RSPCA turned down a couple who wanted to get rit of a rottie. Why? Too agressive. Who wants an agressive rottie??

Good luck.

Mikki
- By briony [gb] Date 11.04.03 13:10 UTC
Sorry we will have to agree to disagree about Goldens,my bitch Amber is line
bred with an excellent temprement so is my dog and know of a vast many more.

Thhere will always be cowboy breeders and its these that give the whole breed
a bad name.
I don't know of any Goldens that have bitten out of the blue,thats not to say they're are'nt
any.
Just like there are so many excellent G.s.d's with fantastic temperaments,
some dogs get on the news and in the papers and suddenly all this breed is
bad, its crazy.Sometimes and not in all cases its not the dog its how it is
brought up very often its the owner that needs educating not the dog who
then gets blamed for bad temperament after its spent months being tormented
by children teasing etc,but not in every case.

On the whole Goldens make excellent family dogs,a dog for all reasons,
provided it was well bred and well cared for and with ALL dogs training,socilising
early on,education for the owner!!

Regards Briony :-)
- By marla [gb] Date 11.04.03 13:15 UTC
you have to find a very good breeder. But here too. You need to have the time for asking the breeder a bunch of questions. And the breeder will ask you.

It can take sometimes a year to find the right pup. Also is there some black sheeps by the breeder. And this does make look the intire breed look bad. I found several breeder where i would never buy a dog from them.
- By briony [gb] Date 11.04.03 14:39 UTC
I agree with you here Marla :-)

You do need to do your research on any breed of pup,wether you buy apup
from a certain breeder is down to you in the end if your satisfied with what
their breeding.You just hope the breeder is an honest person whose not
in it for the money this is where some of the problems are comming from.

It's unfortunate that the Golden Retriever in some ways is so popular,because
this is where we get people who are not interested in showing or breeding
for the good of the breed and just want to put any 2 Goldens together ,wether
to keep one for themselves or to make fast money without studying the pedigree
and temprement of the dogs and before you know it theres possible 8 suspect
dogs.This really appplies to any breed.

Briony :-)
- By briony [gb] Date 11.04.03 14:44 UTC
Forgot also to say some people are in such a rush for a puppy they don't do the
research,and some don't even want to wait2 months some times not always
its these people that don't give the time and thought to bringing pup up
properly.

Briony
- By vickydogs [gb] Date 11.04.03 16:19 UTC
Just my opinion, but prehaps it may be a good idea to look at WHY the dog bit, rather than the conquences, maybe the wife was using threating body posture, and the dogs only way out of being threatened was to bite as it couldnt flee? Hope people understand what I am getting at!
And one more thing, people go on about punishing the deed not the breed, but are writing about how goldies temperments are getting worse! Ok a bit may be down to breeding and raising the dog, but ALL dogs are capable of biting whatever their breed!
Vikki
- By Dawn B [gb] Date 11.04.03 16:43 UTC
If A Golden Retriever bites without provokation, I guarantee you it WILL bite again. If it were mine it would have been PTS by now. JMO
Dawn.
- By kao kate [gb] Date 13.04.03 13:55 UTC
Hi vickdogs
I see your point as to the fact that the dog may have felt frightened and bitten in deffence but this doesnt change the circumstances the dog has bitten and there is a small child in the house
I would have your dog examined by the vet to make sure she is not in pain and then i feel you would seriously have to consider what dawn B
has said no one should ever rehome a aggressive dog these dogs get passed from pillar to post and in the long run you are just prolonging the inevitable
But right now I would keep her away from tour sion and rule out any physical reason for this type of behaviour I would also contact the breeder she must be told of what has happened and she may be able to help you.
I belive some years ago golden coloured Cockers suffered from something called sudden rage syndrome but as im not a cocker person I dont know the details I wondered if there is anything simalar in the retrievers?
- By kao kate [gb] Date 13.04.03 19:50 UTC
Hi everyone
The only problem I can see with advising people that they should buy a puppy with a good bloodline to ensure a good temerament is that for the general person(me included as I have no knowledge of goldens) who has no knowledge of the actual blood lines would then presume that if a dog had 10 shch`s in its pedigree then it must be ok! not always the case as im sure you would agree but sadly most people who contact me regarding dogs have little interest in the actual pedigree just how many sh ch`s and ftch it has in it.
I think it must be stressed that people need to look for a reputable, reccomended breeder and hopefully the good bloodlines should be there!
and could I also ask the origanal poster if he has contacted the breeder of his dog ,they really do need to be told and to add that I really feel for them after two 1/2 years it must be like contemplating the future of your child/loved one.
May I also add that yes cowboy breeders do pay a big part in this type of thing but this can crop anywhere ,but its usually a cowboy who would jump at the chance of a cheap bitch to wang puppies out of regardless of the consiquences!
- By AMBER [us] Date 19.04.03 17:53 UTC
hi bryony,
must say i agree with you 100%, i have three golden girls, all of whom have a superb temperaments. i also breed and the first thing in selecting a stud is, their temperament, it goes without saying. Yes, there are unscrupulous people who are only in it for the money, but the genuine breeders involved with goldens are very careful in their breeding programmes. i have three children, ages 6,4 and 2, they have all been brought up with the dogs, i got my first when 1 was 8 months pregnant with my second child and there has never ever been any bad moments from any of them. They love the children and vice versa. I really feel for the decision that Mason needs to make and hope that things can be sorted out for the benefit of all. I just felt i had to add my voice here as it seems the goldens are being slated through this strain!
Di
- By briony [gb] Date 19.04.03 21:21 UTC
Thanks Amber for your support,nice to hear someone else things along the same lines

So many Goldens go to family homes because of their excellent steadiness,willingness
to learn and their wonderful temprements,as I said 'a dog for all reasons'
provided they are well brought up and properly cared for,and the dog was carefully
bred.

Also nice to prove that Goldens have a wonderful nature around children. :-)

Briony :-)
- By kao kate [gb] Date 20.04.03 09:22 UTC
Hi briony and Amber
I must say I was suprised when people seemed to think tepmerament was a problem in the goldens im certainly no expert on goldens but the few i have met have all been wonderfull temperamented family pets.
my friend has a bitch who she has bought up with her two small children and she is adorable, she is vey calm and loving around the children.
For that reason I was very suprised when I read the origanal post.
Personally I feel temperament problems can crop up in any breed.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 20.04.03 10:44 UTC
I think what those of us who have met less thqan good temperament in some Goldens were trying to say isw that the breed has become a victim of it's own popularity and good reputation.

The vast majority of Goldens, and especially tho9se bred by dedicated knowledgeable breeders who will have temperament up there as first or equal first consideration when making breeding decisons.

Unfortunately there are those who just produce puppies, and do no9t bother with any seclection criteria. In this scenario whe3n the odd bad apple turns up, and it is not weded out from the breeding pen, then this will be perpetuated. There is also the problem of a dog haveing it's basic good nature ruined by inapproipriate rearing practices. Often puppy farmed pusp have had too little human contact, and then are whisked away from their Mums at barely 5 weeks old and kept in such a way that proper socialisation fails to hyappen.
- By kao kate [gb] Date 20.04.03 10:54 UTC
I guess it the same old story that we hear in most breeds the unknowledable or uncaring breeders ruining the breed and its reputation for a quick buck!
I do think its awfull when this sort of thing is coming up in a breed which is so widely known for being a loving family pet!
Oh and Brainless I wasnt doubting that this is a problem in this breed and you obviously come into contact with this breed more than I do I was trying to say that not all goldens are like it (thankfully)
and that this problem can crop up in any breed.
And I agree bad rearing practice also has alot to do with it in some circumstances
- By susan5767 [us] Date 11.04.03 20:01 UTC
I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this awful experience. I agree with others who posted and the behaviorist - the vet and a thorough physical exam should be your first step. It is very possible that the problem is one of a physical nature. Call your breeder, if that person isn't available call the Golden Retriever rescue folks. They are a fantastic resource. Goldens have a wonderful reputation as good, solid family dogs. Sadly, when a breed becomes popular and demand rises poor breeding practices often arise. This is why doing extensive research is so imperative when purchasing a puppy. I believe it's much easier to get a "problem" dog when the breed is an extremely popular one. That said keep the dog separated from the family as suggested. Hopefully there will be a happy solution for everyone. Please let us know what happens.
- By emma [gb] Date 11.04.03 20:52 UTC
I am sorry but if a dog has bitten I do not agree that it MUST be put down.
I am a co-ordinator with golden rescue and have had dogs over 20 years.
There can very often be a VERY god reason for a dog bitting.
Now one persons idea of a 'bite' can be very different to anothers.
Now there is a bite where the dogs simply marks the skin and there is a bite where it REALLY bites and causes damage.
Now the only times that I have had blood drawn is when being bitten accidently i'e playing ect........
I have been bitten by a male dog who had very sore ears and HATED being held by his collar.
I had a phone call last week from an owner who had a possesive 10 month old male{HE knew the dog was possesive} so thought he ould buy him "aload of bones" and then wondered why the dog bit him when he went near him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This dog was PTS without even attempting to take or listen to my advice and couldn't wait over an hour for someone to go and assess the dog.

I put alot of bitting down to the owners not breeders, it is very tempting when a badly bred dog has bitten to blame the breeding.............

To the gentleman concerned.
If you need any help or advice please feel free to email me...
emma xxxxxxxxx
- By dizzy [gb] Date 11.04.03 21:52 UTC
emma, while some dogs may have an obvious reason to bite, -this dog went for the person and continued its attack, so it want a one off warning bite,
- By briony [gb] Date 12.04.03 06:58 UTC
So glad you posted Emma with your sound sensible advice :-)

I think I know who you are,are you at any shows shortly :-)?

Regards Briony
- By kao kate [gb] Date 13.04.03 14:08 UTC
HI Emma
Im afraid I have to agree with dawn B and dizzy on this one
I do think the owners MUST take profesional advice and have the dog checked ,but the poster made it quite clear this was a attack not a nip
personally I wouldnt want to wait for the dog to atack my child and then say OH YES THIS DOG HAS A PROBLEM!! by then it couldbe far to late
We are talking about a family dog in a home enviroment not a dog in a rescue that can be kenneled safely and assessed

I admire you dedication to rehabilitating such dogs but when you are putting people (children) at risk I feel it is time to step back and take a long hard look at your priority`s
The rescues are full of good natured dogs crying out for homes why add to the burden with a dog that is completely unsuitabe as a pet
Im sorry if this offends but I have personal experiance of this situation
We adopted a dog from a well known rescue for a family pet with no mention of any aggressive behaviour 2 days after he arrived he bit my son thankfully without causing any permant damage when I contacted the rescue they then informed me the dog had been handed in for that very reason but they had done a behaivoural assesment on him and found him not to be aggressive!
- By briony [gb] Date 13.04.03 18:39 UTC
Just a thought here when you look at Mason's post,What is everyone definion
of a bite??
Has this dog left puncture wounds,was blood drawn????
Or was it just mouthing which does hurt,which can happen in play.

I was brought up with German Shepherds,fantasticd dogs if well brought up and trained well
etc etc.I have Goldens by choice .
My daughter was bitten by a friend German Shepherd on the hand as the dog jumped
on her she used her hand to protect her face.Puncture wounds that showed a
set of teeth marks that needed treatment at the doctors.Luckily she was brought
up around Goldens and is not frightened of them or the Gs.D'S at shows,she
was 7yrs.
This dog was destroyed as the family also had 2 children,the dog attacked without pr
provocation.This was a deliberate bite leaving teeth puncture wounds.
I'm teaching my young Golden not to mouth peoples hands 9weeks.
My older GOLDEN puts his teeth around my hand in play but NEVER BITES OR
punctures my skin.Always supervise the children when playing and when they have friends
round I put my dogs in the crate so the children don't get over excited and the dogs sleep in peace

We don't know until the poster says was it a bite or accidental mouthing which does hurt
but is not a bite,To me you need clear punture wounds to warrant the dog being put to sleep

Briony :-)
- By rachaelparker [gb] Date 15.04.03 14:59 UTC
oH FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand that a lot of people on this thread are only thinking of their childrens safety but dont think you're asking a bit much of animals to be perfectly behaved ALL of the time!

Yes a bite is serious but surely everyone deserves a second chance.
Couldnt you just keep the dog away fom the child and vice versa!!!

The number of times when I've got really stressed and thrown things at my boyfriend are too numerous to mention!!!!

and my cats attack (bite and claw) whenever they're in a bad mood and I certainly wouldnt consider putting them to sleep!!!

Of course a dog can do more damage but then perhaps people shouldnt have dogs with such young children.

As I said above 100% good mood and behaviour is perhaps too much to ask!!!!!
- By tballard [gb] Date 11.04.03 21:11 UTC
In defence of golden retrievers
I suspect that when a golden retriever bites it is a big suprise to everyone as they are usually such good tempered dogs and it is newsworthy. if it was a dog without the reputation for being good natured not so much notice is taken. The numbers of golden retrievers are so huge that even if a tiny percentage have a bad temper that number is not insignificant but that shouldn't detract from the enormous number of wonderful dogs out there. Also in the defence of the breed as a whole, they are family dogs usually so are placed in more testing circumstances than many other breeds on a regular basis (ie pulled around by young children) Also golden retrievers have been popular dogs for a very long time and I am not sure it is accuratr to say they are being bred excesivley now in fact the numbers registered dropped by 3,000 between 2000 & 2001(not sure of latest figs)
Being the owner of 3 very trustworthy and loyal goldens I really dont know how I would react to this particular situation but agree that a thorough check up is the first obvious move. having said that even if a dog is unwell it still shouldnt attack unprovoked if that is what did happen.
I wish you well in whatever decision you make.
Ted
- By Wendy J [gb] Date 13.04.03 19:08 UTC
This sure sparked a lot of discussion, but I'm sure we're all in agreement that the first thing to do would be to get the dog straight to the vets and get it examined for any physical reason for it biting (ie pain). We've not heard from you since you posted this - I know I speak for a lot of us when I say we'd like to hear how you're doing and what's happening with your dog.

Hope all is well.

Wendy
- By Mason824 [us] Date 15.04.03 13:28 UTC
Here's an update up to this point in time. Cinci's vet visit concluded a respiratory infection, which the vet stated should not cause her to bite. The vet said she was entirely to hyper for a 2 1/2 year old, she recommended a medication (not sure of the name, my wife took her to the vet) or extensive obedience training.

I have been watching her close lately, she is a dog who NEVER barked, now she seems to bark when she see's neighbors outside, to me it's strange. I have noticed she is sleeping a lot lately, I just sense something else is wrong from an owners standpoint.

BTW I mentioned my wife took her to the vet, she made up to my wife and continues to lick that hand whenever she gets the chance. The weirdest part of the whole situation would be that she is acting like the loveable pet again.

Thank you all for the comments and support, it has helped greatly in our time of shock. I will keep everyone informed with what happens next.
- By Lindsay Date 16.04.03 08:03 UTC
From what you have said, it does seem that she is not "herself", especially the fact that she is sleeping a lot lately - at the end of the day, you are her owner and if you feel instinctively that she is not "herself" then I would bear that in mind. Did the vet check her blood? She may need a really thorough going over with tests to get to the bottom of whatever may be wrong (hopefully not too much).

Best wishes
Lindsay
- By Kacie [ca] Date 16.04.03 17:50 UTC
Hi Mason
I would suggest going ahead with training before medicating. There probably are many things you behaviourist could suggest. If you're planning on keeping the dog as an active part of your family for the rest of his life (a good ten years or so), I think you should look at the whole picture and try and to enhance the relationship between your dog and family instead of medicating him wich could mask the real problem. Not to cut down your vet but most behaviourist are better qualified in the area of behaviour problems something which not all vets receive specialized training. I would be curious to see what your behaviourist would say about the dog licking your wife's hand whenever she gets a chance, in some instances dogs lick to prepare for a bite.
Good luck.
- By Mason824 [us] Date 16.04.03 18:02 UTC
Actually this seems to be a loving lick, as in apologizing
- By alannewmanmoore [gb] Date 20.04.03 08:47 UTC
Hi, It is rare for a dog to attack without some provocation in its doggy mind. I have only encountered one dog who chased children on their bikes which the owner would do nothing except worry about it. Whilst I was having a meal with the family the dog and for no reason I could see it began to growl and show major aggression towards the owners partner. I was very concerned as she also let the dog dominate her while she though it was just loving her the way it pinned her to her settee. Three months later it transpired the dog had a cancer in the brain that had not shown up. Do check for everthing with your vet. Even he thinks she is to hyper for 2 1/2 and does have a respiratore infection. I ask what else is going on.
Your dog is not licking as an act of forgivness for the bite, that is over and done with in the dogs mind. This is because your wife views her diffently now and your dog is back to her normal stage again so wishes your wife to show the greeting of freindlyness she use to have and cannot understand her current standoffishness. You say you have noticed a difference and by all accounts she may be phasing in character for a medical or dietry problem.
Locking the dog away is not a good method as it does often create more aggression but in this case it does not seem to have had this affect but understandably the worry here is for your son and the fact the bite was not a warning but an aggressive prolonged attack. The question not answared here is why nor the fullest details of the attack. I would like to see just which type of aggression your dog is showing and again this is not shown in the posts. This needs a complete discection by an experienced behavourist recommended or at least approved by your vet.
You do at least have the method to produce signs of aggression by removal of the meal and though you have trained for this I would like to know how this is actually done as inadvertanly you can create a tease. As far as the behavourist is concerned they are able to see which type of aggression is at work and read the dog.
There are a whole load of questions like did your wife feed the dog and how was the dogs reaction and so many more that can home in on the reasons to the attack that I would ask before condeming a dog but I still come back to the protection of your son as the prime concern.
Last week I have a 14 year old daughter who was very bitten badly on the hand for trying to take a sweety paper away from the dog. They have tried to do the food removal and return but had held the collar creating a tease and the dog is also becoming dominent. All easy to correct and no reason for the dog to be put to sleep as we know why. For all these reasons and primaraly for your son why you need to know WHY and only a reputable behavoiurist will discover this by discussing all details of your family.
To me dogs are dogs, big ones middle ones and little ones. Any dog can have a genetic problem and yes some breeders can have loaded a bad trait into a particluar breed. Different breeds go through phases with problems and why I never relate a problem by stating the breed.
I trust you will find the reason for why this event happended and correct it but the saftey of your son is paramount.
- By becketts [gb] Date 26.04.03 00:32 UTC
It is worth having your dog tested for thyroid imbalance. Autoimmune thyroiditis can cause sudden aggression. We had a young Maremma sheepdog who suddenly and without warning attacked my partner, then myself (different occasions) - each time he kept coming and afterwards he was confused and submissive. In between these "rage" attacks he was sweet, affectionate and biddable. Blood tests showed autoimmune thyroiditis and soloxine improved things though sadly with him not enough to be reliable. He was PTS about 6 months after diagnosis. It was very difficult - but helpful to understand what was wrong with him.

You need to check T3 and T4 thyroid auto antibodies - not just levels. It may not be this but it is worth a simple blood test. AIT can be treated successfully in spite of our experience.
All the best
Janet
- By Lisa-safftash [gb] Date 26.04.03 22:10 UTC
I agree with Janet, thyroid tests are a good idea.

I just read through this whole thread with much interest.

I don't think that dog is nasty, there is definitely....from what the owner has said, some underlying health problem.
The fact that the dog has been the perfect family pet for 2 1/2 years suggests health problems, and not real aggression.

I can't remember who it was that said the dog should be pts, but I definitely don't agree with that. The dog deserves a second chance.

Extensive tests (thyroid/blood etc) are a must to get to the bottom of the problem, and I personally would get them done as soon as possible.

To the owner....I really hope everything works out for you, your family and your dog. It must be a very difficult time for you all.
Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes

Lisa
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Golden's First Bite

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