Wondering if anyone can help me. Owner of a 6 month old puppy and I'm worried that he's not getting any playtime with other puppies or dogs. We've been to puppy classes wasn't let off lead bit bigger than other puppies (late starter to class). Obvioulsy seeing other dogs when out and about but he just doesn't get to have a good run around. I want him to be mixing with as many other breeds as possible so that he does'nt get any problems as he grows up. Don't know any other dog owners, any suggestions?!!!

This reads like a right dumb post :p

Rachel

Do you still take your puppy to classes? Bailey started at 13 weeks and we have never stopped we just moved up in to the more advanced classes as he (and Me;)) got better trained. He is now 16 months :D.

Because of where i live he doesn't really get to mix with many other dogs so taking him to classes every week beens he still gets to see some other dogs. We both really enjoy our evenings and we have just started agility as well now.

If you have stopped I would consider finding going back or finding suitable class for his age/ability :).

HTH

Tracy

Rachel
You say you do see other dogs out & about - have you started talking to these other dog owners to see if they would let their dogs play with your pup?
Most dog owners can't resist a pup & most are ready to talk 'dog' at the drop of a lead!
Good luck Steph

Hi Rachel
our trainer arranges regular dog walks in one of the larger parks on an early sunday morning . People turn up with all sorts of breeds and its up to you whether pup goes off lead or not ( depending on behaviour and recall etc) . Its great for them and you have a chance to chat with other people too . Maybe your trainer knows of any such walks .
Lel
:)

Hi Lel

Great idea, where abouts is this out of interest? Nowhere near to me I guess! I've been thinking about trying to organise something like this as it would be ideal and good to chat with other dog owners (first time dog owner so any advice is always greatly recieved)

Well if there's anyone else wanting to get this going in the Lincolnshire or surrounding areas let me know

Rachel :)

Hi Rachel
we are on the Wirral in North West .
We didnt originally plan to let him run loose but he was brilliant when we did . He came back when called and had a good run and learnt a bit of doggy etiquette during it . Actually they all behaved well , considering the amount of dogs there . There was the odd grumble at first but they all settled down and enjoyed themselves .
It would be a good thing to arrange but obviously make sure it is somewhere "out the way" or somewhere not too busy with cyclists or children etc
Lel

I stopped my puppy classes at 6 months with my dog (because I just wasn't getting anywhere with him) and he is really good with other dogs. I think aslong as he can gets walks where he meets other dogs on a regular basis he will be ok. If you see another dog and its owner go to them and ask if its ok if your dog says 'hello' and most of the time they will say yes(hopefully!) This is what I did with my dog and still do when I see other dogs. I have a english bull terrier and he is brilliant with all animals. I don't know any other dog owners but this is what I did with my dog and he is fine........hope this helps

Madbully
yeah I agree with you there . Usually people are only to happy if you are with a pup to stop and chat or let the two dogs meet and have a sniff . I always ask if their dog is ok with meeting Gus and the majority say yes - the odd person may say their dog is a bit intolerant of puppys so do always ask first !
Gus isa Staffy and he too is brilliant around other dogs . He has only ever had one dog growl at him and he was pretty shocked .
Lel

Why do you want you puppy to interact with other dogs? If pup is not dog aggressive, then just being around other dogs should be all that you need. Interacting with other dogs can lead to fighting, which would cause your dog to become dog aggressive. Not all dogs are predictable, that friendly looking lab could suddenly decide that your dog has offended him and before you know it, your dog is dead. Pack instincts run high when dogs are put together. Running loose is a good way to lose your dog if he is not in an enclosed area. I firmly believe in socalization, but not to interacting. There simply is no good reason for it.

Meeting and interacting with other dogs is half the pleasure of dog owning for many of us. I have found far from causing fights it teaches them interdog etiquette and they are less likely to to. Meeting and chatting with the owners is nice for me too :D

Frankly, I've never understood why people take their dogs to dog parks. I understand they want to socialize their dogs, but why take such a risk? Take the dog to the pet store and let him see other dogs and meet people. Let the people pet him and maybe sniff noses with another friendly dog. I value my dogs too much to put them in any kind of danger. They depend on me as their pack leader to keep them safe. Not long ago, a 10 month old boxer was killed when two large dogs teamed up and went for him. The owner was too far away to help. This happens far too much. When you have more than one dog running loose, you are just asking for trouble. The average person does not understand how strong the pack instinct is in their pet. These drives click into high gear when a dog is taken into a park with other dogs. Dogs instinctively try to make a pack order. This can very quickly leads to fighting. Although your dog may be well behaved, you cannot assume that every dog in the park is a well-mannered, well-trained pet. I'm sure that these outings are great fun for the owner and your dog may never have to fight for his life, but why take that kind of chance? Keep your dog on his leash and only around other dogs that are on leash.

Hi Tirrya,
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you entirely! If a dog isn't taught how to interact with its own species (and that can only be done by other dogs - we don't speak the language) it is at a permanent disadvantage and is far more likely to misread situations and start a fight - and it is a known fact that on-lead dogs are more likely to be aggressive (because they can't escape) than off-lead dogs (who can).

I agree with you. I often meet the regulars at the country park (more careful with the fair weather walkers!) and there can be a dozen or so dogs interacting, some playful, some grumpy, some that ignore the others. They all know how to act with each other and accept being told where to go by the older ones who don't want to play, and the young element soon work out who is up for a game. The owners are all relaxed, only stepping in if someone gets a bit rough with an oi, steady etc. These dogs ranging from Lurchers, gundogs, collies, terriers and mixes, with different drives all have worked out how to get along.

It is those who don't let their dogs mix that have or cause problems as their dogs have not learnt how to, and often over react to a rebuke, or attack from fear. There are obviously some maludjusted dogs, and the owners are aware of this and take steps to keep them away from others, but if they had been introduced in a relaxed manner to others when young this is unlikley to have happened.

I must admit as a single dog owner it is the dogs that have made me all my friends, this would hardly have happened if I retreated into the distance as soon as I spied another dog walker. In a city park this would be impossible anyway, as there are lots of people and dogs, and we all have to learn how to rub along.

I'm sorry Tiyrra but you are wrong. It is by assocation with other dogs that a dog learns to behave in a natural manner with other dogs. Dogs are a social animal and just as humans like to be with humans so dogs enjoy the company of other dogs. It also gives the owner the chance to train their dog for control under these circumstances. There is always going to be the occasion when you come across another dog unexpectedly and then two things can happen, 1/ your dog, not being use to interacting with other dogs is frightened into attack or 2/ your dog is so pleased to see another dog that all your training goes out of the window and you have no control and must just stand and wait until he finally gets tired and comes backto you!

You are obviously in America by your talk of Dog Parks. In the UK we do not have such things. When we talk of parks these are open pieces of land where everyone goes, children play and dogs run free. Also over here very few if any shops allow dogs in because of health laws so we are talking about a different way of doing things.

Regards, John

It doesn't matter how big the park is, the fact is the dogs are loose. Some good information on this is at: http://www.leerburg.com

Yes, of course the dogs are loose! It would be cruel to not let them run free - they would not be fit and healthy mentally or physically.

Are you saying your dogs NEVER run free Tiyrra? If they do what happenes if they ever meet another?

John

My dogs never run free outside of my yard. We have leash laws that also prevent that. Dogs may be off leash only in a dog park. My dog is well socalized, starting when we was a puppy. He is allowed to touch noses with other dogs but that is all. If a strange dog comes up to us while my dog is on leash, I get between them and shoo the dog away. My dog will not attack other dogs unless provoked and I don't want him to ever have to fight. It is my job to protect my dog. I have a friend with a large dog like mine and they are allowed to play in the yard only. I know this friends dog and know what his temperment is. I know that my dog is safe with him. I would never allow my dog near strange dogs. Even if people say their dog is friendly, how can you be sure? Are you willing to bet your dogs life on it? I'm not.

I'm sorry for you having to live with laws like that but I'm even more sorry for your dogs never being able to run in the countryside! I think under those conditions I could no longer want to keep dogs. To me it is worst than caged zoo animals! After a (Very long) lifetime in dogs it is completely beyond my comprehension!

John

With you all the way on this, John. It sounds like hell for the poor dogs.

I thought we had problems Jan! My dogs are out free in the park, woods, field, you name it. Just very occasionally a dog will have a spat with another but after 40 plus years in dogs I have never seen blood on any of my dogs caused by another. I believe that is because of rather than in spite of the fact that the dogs meet and play with others. I have had a hall full of dogs off the lead at Christmas parties at the dog club, all breeds, playing retrieve the sausage and egg and spoon races, all having great fun.

Regards, John

You're right, John. Because they get a chance to learn from a young age about the body language of their own species they learn about other dogs' attitudes to them without it becoming confrontational. And because they are off-lead they can retreat when they want without 'losing face'. I'm sure they're psychologically well-balanced because of it.

Me too John. Even with an indepoendant hunting dog, which many people won't let off lead, I still feel that off lead time is too important, so make the effort with training, and choosing safish walking places in case of any awol antics. A lady well known in Ibizan hounds uses this same Country Park. She has had the odd hairy moment, and did loose her dogfs once when she made the mistake of letting her bitch off wioth her brother who had been returned to her at teenage stage (thereby not trained by her from puppyhood).

I would sooner take a slight risk than condemn my dog to life on a lead, and to only playing ion my garden. Actually mine won't play in the garden, as I am always teling them to keep quiet, and they tend to get a bit vocal when playing, so they don't bother and wait to let of steam playing in the country park, or a quick dash around int e4hmany recreation grounds near me that allow dogs off lead, and provide dog poo bins..

I try to get my dogs running with other people's dogs every day if possible. Where my husband walks them there are often over a dozen dogs ranging in size from a Great Dane to a Border Terrier all getting along extremely well off lead. Some play together, some just greet and walk on. Pups learn how to behave with older dogs, both males and females. This all happens in open country, where the dogs are all free to investigate rabbit holes etc. We all feel they have an ideal life.

You people have been the lucky ones. Your dogs have never been attacked and they may never be. But as I stated before, I love my dogs too much to take that kind of chance. I don't think you understand what I'm saying, my dogs do get to play with other dogs in an controlled enviroment with dogs that I know are safe, and never more than three dogs. These dogs all know their place in the pack so there are never any surprises. I understand that most of you are just average dog owners and have never dealt with pack issues. I will explain: When there is a group of dogs that are allowed to run together, they instinctively try to establish a rank order (or packing order). If there are several dogs that want to assume the role of pack leader there are going to be problems. If the dogs are left to their own devices, each dog will assume its rank within the pack. There is a good possibility that fights will develop to determine what order various dogs fall in. My dogs are highly trained working dogs, therefore I have more control over them then the average pet owner. But even, so I'm not foolish enough to throw my dog into a pack of dogs I don't really know well. Here there are leash laws to protect the dog and people, and they work. As for a pup learning to be a dog, his mother and litter mates already taught him that, something he will never forget.
I suppose that we can only agree to disagree and I hope I never have to say "I told you so". On that note I'm done with this subject.

I am not getting at you tiyrra, we all have to live withn the laws of the land in which we live. I'm also not going to go into my experience with you. You don't know me and I dont expect you ever will so that would be a waste of time. I think you are wrong in your summing up of the dog's nature and personally think you are asking for trouble by not properly socialising your dog and by socialising I mean training them to be "Bomb Proof" in all situations.

John

Part of my point is that the only dog who has attacked one of mine (picked up an adult dalmatian and shook him) was a dog that was usually kept on a lead away from other dogs and had got loose from his home. If that dog had been taught properly ......

Edit: No serious damage was done, Piglet learnt to avoid that dog (and all his lookalikes) when we see them but doesn't hold it against other dogs. People don't all get on well, and nor should dogs be expected to either. But they should all be given the chance. That's life. :)

Agree with you. I take all four of mine out together. Never have a problem. I make sure they don't crowd dogs they meet, and only one will sniff at a time, and I tell then to move on with reasuring words for the owner go on girls, one at a time, don't crowd, you'll frighten him, all very relaxed.

The girls (and their brothers that have visited) know how to avoid confrontation, even if another dog is hell bent on having a go, this is what socialisation teaches them. The pack thing doesn't really apply, as the ranking members are the owners! The dogs themselves are always subordinate to the alphas of their home pack, and take their cures from us. Now if ownere gets in a panic, then there will be trouble, as the dog/dogs will feel this and feel the need to respond in a defensive way.

Hi everyone who replied to my post

Thanks for all your suggestions and you confirmed that it's best to get him out their mixing as much as possible. More so for me as our boy is a large breed. He does sooo well on training with no distractions so now I really need distractions!! Not so good with recall etc but until I'm in the situations he's not gonna learn.

To give an example of how lucky we are not!! After reading the posts off we went for our morning walk in the fields. A couple where out walking there three dogs perfect opportunity for a chat and the dogs too. Oh no three rather unfriendly dogs and not so friendly owners. My little fella sat waiting nicely to say hello only for them all to walk past. I apologised to the owners and that was that great!!!

I know it's not always like this but just when I needed a bit of friendly interaction no luck. We go various places out walking, better luck next time :D

If anyone knows of good walking places that are safe and friendly in the Lincolnshire area let me know

Cheers Rachel

I was walking my dog last week in the park (off leash) I was throwing her ball and she would retrieve it. We go to the park about 3 times a week. On this day, another dog that we have seen before and has played with my dog suddenly attacked my dog. The owner ran over and helped me separate the two. My dog's ear was half torn from his head. I don't know why the dog did this, it always seemed like a friendly dog before this. I talked to the Veternarian about why, he said that my dog was in territory that the other dog now considered his. I asked what should I do. He said to keep my dog on the leash and report the other dog. I want to have my dog run and socalize with other dogs, but not if he is going to get hurt. The Vet agreed with tiyrra, that the mom and litter mates teach the puppy all it needs to know on how to act like a dog. From now on I will leash my dog on a long line and retreat when other dogs come near.

All I can say is that you must have some pretty poor temperament dogs in your part of the world and some rather strange vets! I dont think a vet in the UK would say that!

Apart from anything else I dont know how fast you can retreat but I would bet most dogs could advance faster!

John

I had my puppy on lead and a woman approached me with her two on lead and they "touched noses" as you called it.

The womans two smaller dogs then jumped on Darcy, and did a tug of war with an ear each.

During the mayehm the leads got tangled and It was bedlam. Darcy squealing in pain and the other 2 growling and barking.

If she had been off the lead she would have at least been able to get herself out of the middle of them!!!!!

Now she slightly more wary of dogs on lead but not of dogs off lead because she seems better able to judge what they're going to be like before she approaches.

She loves running around off lead and I think its a real shame that your dogs cant enjoy the same

If you're dogs are so obedient surely you can jst recall them if you see another dog and head of in another direction.

Having them on lead isnt going to save them if a dog is determined to follow you.
Infact its likely they would get hurt more if hte dog did decide to attack because they wouldnt be able to defend themselves as well

I'm so sorry about your dog. Unfortunatly this happens all to often. listen to your vet, he know what's he talking about.

I can see your point tiyrra, but if a dog was that unfriendly it is up to the owner to keep it on a lead and away from other dogs, and yes i know not all owners do that. Just because they are domesticated don't forget that they are dogs. They are not human, andwhilst you have taken it upon youself to be their leader, something all dog owners do, don't forget that we can not interact with them in such a natural way as other dogs can. You may see it as being kind to them but whould you like it if you were prevented from having any contact with other people? It must be like being able to see people but not being able to interact with them. My dog loves to play and romp with other dogs, something she would do naturally in the wild. As much as i love her i can not play with her like she can with another dog. You can usually tell a dog that is unfriendly, as most dogs can and learn to stay clear. Do you not cross a road because you may get hit by one car? Probably not. I think you should give your dog more credit, they are not stupid and would be able to avoid a fight.

I can see your point tiyrra, but if a dog was that unfriendly it is up to the owner to keep it on a lead and away from other dogs

Let's see if we read the same thing: On this day, another dog that we have seen before and has played with my dog suddenly attacked my dog.

Looks about right.

That was the problem the dog was friendly. I talked to the owner she said the dog had not ever done that before. I just wonder why it was my dog.

As you said in an earlier post Tiyrra, I'm just an average dog owner so I bow to your greater knowledge of dogs and their behaviour. Hence fourth I will confine my dogs to the lead and lobby others to do the same. After 50 years of being lucky I guess you are right and my dogs are on borrowed time.

John

I'm now visualising you bounding over the heather with your dog on a lead, to retrieve the pheasant, John! :) And all the other dogs on the shoot on leads, too. However did you manage with all the fights that must break out all the time?

I've phoned my keeper, Jan. Told him not to worry. I'm going into training so by the start of the season I should be super fit! It's just my nose I'm concerned about, Whether with all the criss-crossing scents I'll be able to follow the runners?

Fights in the Game Cart? 14 men and 10 dogs in the back of a long wheel base Landrover? It was horrendous! Beaters attacking the guns! Pickers up arguing with each other! You should have seen it! But no more! we will all be on lead next season.

Best wishes, John

It must have been a bloodbath, John. Thank heavens you have at last seen the light.

No more dogs off the lead in my Gundog Training class either Jan. The leads can be tied to a tree whilst the handler fetches the dummy. (I know just the person I'm going to send for the water retrieve!)

Oooh, bad John !! :D :D

No more than one person in my pet dog club at a time and I'm going to canvas for only one dog per ring at shows. Best in Show will be the first dog to get into the ring! With no other dog allowed in whilst that one is in there can be no challanger! That will also have the effect of eliminating the need for benching at Crufts and therefore allow more room for the important part, the trade stands!

I suppose they'll have to get larger traps at the dog-racing for the handlers to fit into as well as the greyhounds.

And as for the TV programme, "One (exhausted) Man and his Dog".....

Please stop - I can't take any more :D :D

Daisy

I feel sorry for the poor terrier man having to follow his dog down the rabbit hole! Our keeper is going to have to go on a diet!

Or the ratman, having to go under the shed!!

But don't forget, it's for the dog's safety, John. It's far too dangerous to ever let them off the lead.

roflol :D :D :D

I'm sure "The Flower" will be so relieved that she is no longer expected to actually break into a run whilst out in the countryside. I feel sure she would much rather walk quietly at heel. I will also be able to protect her from the Squirrels. Some of the Grey Squirrels have really nasty temperaments!

John

That's because they're not on the lead, John ;)