I notice that on some threads where guests are looking for a puppy, that the KC lists are being recommended by regular posters here. I have always been led to believe that these lists are just lists of puppies recently registered and probably the last place I would look for a puppy as they possibly contain puppy farm puppies and have posted to that effect. I would value comments from experienced breeders/admin as I dont want to post innacurate/misleading info, but am concerned that these lists are being given out on this site as a good place to look for a puppy. Comments please.

As a matter of interest Westie lover ..and I don't want to stir things up ..but where would YOU suggest someone who isn't in the know in the doggy world look for a pup? I usually recommend the CD links but sometimes I will suggest the KC especially if there are no breeders listed here.

Im just curious ..not being confrontational at all :)

Mel :)

Hi Mel, no probs I'm not after an arguememt. :-) I would usually only suggest the breed club, preferably to join and find members with puppies that way, or to visit a show and speak to breeders there. As my email is not hidden on here those who want advice about westies can ( and do) s e mail me and I pass them on to breeders who may have puppies.
I am tentatively looking for a puppy of another breed and as I have no contacts in the breed, I posted on champdogs for help with joining the breed club, to ask if anyone would propose and second me for the club. Thanks to a regular poster who went to some trouble to help me with this, I am now in the process of joining the club and will hope to find a breeder/puppy throught the year book and visiting shows.
My concern is just that the majority of people not "in dogs" look upon the KC as the ultimate respected body to advise them about where to buy a puppy and find a reputable breeder , as they probably dont know about breed clubs and have only heard of the KC and may assume that a KC puppy list contains better breeders/puppies. :-) No offence was intended to you or anyone,I dont want to stir anything up either.

No offence taken at all :) I was just curious ...it is good advice to go to a breed club ..which , I have to say , is why I normally put the CD link and say *a list of breeders AND clubs* ;)

Mel :)

As far as I'm aware the KC now restricts the puppy sales register to those people who do not breed more than 5 litters a year. It used to be 10 but they brought it in line with the new rules that now apply. I think that as many possible 'sources' should be given starting with breed clubs. However, I have found that some clubs still require new members to be seconded by a member and if you know no-one in the breed then it can be a little difficult.
Bec

I will sometimes suggest puppy enquirers check the KC Puppy Sales list with the proviso that there is no guarantee that the breeders are reputable & that enquirers should check breeders out for themselves, as they should for any breeder. Since the KC changed their rules, as Bec mentions, commercial breeders & puppy farmers are now excluded from the Puppy Sale lists (since they produce more than 5 litters a year) Having looked at the names which appear for my own breed on the KC list, some are reputable breeders & some are people I've not heard of (perhaps pet owners having one-off litters) I know of enquirers who have been v happy with breeders they have contacted via the KC Sales List so don't necessarily see anything wrong with suggesting this as a source, along with the usual breed club contacts, provided we make it clear there are no guarantees.

I know they aren't checked in any way, but they do only allow people breeding less than five litters to use the PSR! So even if the breeders aren't brilliant they are low volume. Yes I know some large scale breeders register litters in different peoples names, so it isn't a tiotal fail safe.

I have never bothered with it since I found out you only got listed once the registration was completed (not when it was received) and as a couple of years ago they were taking 6 weeks or more to register the pups I was getting lots of calls for pups who had long gone to ther new homes.

I have to say - that my two pups were sold from being on the KC puppy list, this wasn't my intention, but the people who were on waiting list only wanted certain colours/sexes. I registered the pups and thought that the KC register was better then advertising in the loot etc - not that i would of done - don't see why anyone has to advertise their dogs that way. At least if people have looked at the kennel club website there is a possibility that they have looked at the breed standards etc. I was inundated with calls - still being phoned at least 2/3 times a day, and I have to say they are all asking the questions that i expected to be asked. None of them have been uninformed, misinformed etc. The ones that called after the pups were gone - i give them my experience to the best of my knowledge - if you know what i mean, even spending a long time discussing, docking, hips, colours etc etc etc, and recommending other sites - here, breed clubs, cockers online to name a few. If I am honest, the ones that contacted me from my details on here - knew absoloutely nothing about cocker spaniels, and i doubt i would have sold them one of my dogs.

As to how long before u get on there - i sent my registration off when the pups were 3 and a half weeks, i was being called by the time they were four and a half weeks, confused me at first cos people were ringing on my home number and on here i only gave my mobile, but i guessed, got a letter a day later saying i was on the puppy register, and had the pups registration certs a few days later. They don't wait until the pups registrations have gone through.

Nikki xx

I must add her that my negative experience of the PSR listing was four years ago, as my litters since then were fully booked or small, so didn't need to advertise. I didn't bother this time either as with a small litter I didn't see the point. I am glad that they now list prior to the registrations going therough, and if my last litter 18 months ago is anything to go by the Registrations take about a week or two.

My litter registration application 3 years ago sent off at a few days old barely got back the registrations by the time the pups left!

Hi westie lover
Im probally one of the guilty parties for telling people to look on the puppy list
I to was under the impression that only people that registered less than five litters a year could use the list!
and I was carefull to say on my last post that just because they were advertised on the list it didn`t mean they were from a good breeder the trouble is where ever people advertise puppies there are going to be bad breeders all we can do is hope the people looking for a puppy can spot the difference between a good breeder and a puppy farm.
bye kate

I would value comments from experienced breeders/admin as I dont want to post innacurate/misleading <<

I guess I don't fit into the above catagory but as a member of the board and certainly a very experince dog owner for 18 years I would say that there is no one right way to find a puppy but sometimes we know of litters and sometimes we don't. I personally know 3 people who are on the KC breeders list and they are all first class breeders and are exhibitors of the breed. I was also told , not by the KC but by another breeder that the KC had tightened up its rules greatly to prevent people who breed too much advertising on the list. So I guess they are moving in the right direction.

It goes without saying people come here also looking for a puppy as the title can sometimes/ or may make people think that it is only exhibitors on the board but this is understandably not true and likewise there is probably or could be some not so hot breeders on the breeders list here like anywhere. I believe when you register a litter born they charge you a fee also for each and every litter which helps the people in it for money only and of course brings in a pound or two for the KC.

I think that if we point people to places where they can find breeders and as long as they do the correct checks that is all we can do. A lot of people wanting a pet dog can and are sometime impacient and will not want to go to the trouble of joining clubs etc whether it is in their interest or not. It is also common to join clubs and still not find a puppy.

If we don't say something then the next place will be the local paper and cetainly in westies there are a few not so desirable breeders sometimes in there.

BFN Pam.

I'd just like to add that I used the KC puppy list to help find my pup.
The lady I phoned had no pups left, but was able to put me in contact with a breeder(after what I consider a severe grilling about the breed ...and me...and rightly so) who then checked me out herself, after several visists I was delighted to hear I was suitable for one of her pups!!! :)
Perhaps the KC should be viewed as a starting point for prospective buyers, if the Breeders don't ask the right questions, or are very eager to sell, then surely alarm bells should ring.
As a earller post mentioned, who would want to go thru rhe small ads :(

Liberty :D

What my Pap Club has is a Puppy Register where (only) member breeders place details of their pups they have for sale, as well as older dogs, so this is the number I pass on to prospective new owners enquring about puppies. As our members have to be proposed and seconded, it is quite hard for 'pet' (ouch<g>) people who breed the one off litter or breed to make money type of person, get on to the list. The members who put their pup details on to the Register pay a small fee for each puppy and this money goes to the Breed Rescue Fund.
The prospective people in the first instance gets my number from the KC. I would think it would be quite rare to see a member of the Club put their puppies on the KC PSR now. It was asked if the KC would pass the Puppy Register Holder's number on, but they don't. I have to say this system seems to work very well for our breed. I don't know if other breeds Club's have such a register??
Carolyne

Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit I didn't know that only unlicenced breeders could place their puppies on the list, which changes my view of the whole subject .

I reffer people to the pet plan list, this is where I found my Newfie Pup when I knew knowone in the breed. This always seemed a goodplact to start looking as these breeders will insure their pups (probably a good start) and also they can be put on the list as soon as they are born, dont have to wait until registered. They also do a kitten list.
Ted

Hi I hate to tell you but the pet plan list offers free insurance to breeders and is open to anyone with puppies no checks are made to see if the breeder if reputable or the puppies are evn KC registered and although it is nice to be able to offer your puppy owners extra insurance it is also a pretty good sales trick as well!! and to be honest although I have no doubt that your breeder was perfectly reputable they may well have fooled you if she hadn`t been
I hope this doesnt offend and as with the KC list most breeders on there are genuinly caring nice people but theres always one that slips the net