I have just been on a site (american toy/tea cup poodle breeders) who has stated that a reputable breeder 'guarantees' their puppies against genetic defects. My question is; Can you 'guarantee' against genetic defects? Even if you do every test under the sun on your breeding stock does this mean that the puppies will not develop a genetic disorder at a later stage? Also some 'problems' can be as a result of incorrect rearing by the puppy buyers such as over feeding, incorrect feeding, over exercise etc so how can you 'guarantee'?
Bec

I agree it is like guaranteeing your own children, I wish with a 10 year old boy and 14 year old girl, I wish there was a breeder I could blame :D You can Warranty that you will do x if a problem arises, but you can't guarantee a living creature! All you can guarantee is that the available tests for disorders have been done for the parents.

My sales contract always 'guaranteed' that I would do one of several things if the dog later proved to have a genetic defect. They were, of course, free to return the dog to me for a full refund; keep the dog and take a replacement from another unrelated litter; keep the dog and get a full refund less $50. However, there were also conditions that they had to meet to keep the 'guarantee' validated: proper medical care (including regular vaccinations, etc.), diet (no generic dog foods), exercise. It was my option to have the defect verified by a veternarian of my choosing at my expense if I wished. In the event of a dispute, a third veternarian would be consulted (again at my expense).

I also had a 'repossession' clause for neglect (inadequate food, water, shelter). And, yes, it does work because I have taken a dog back for such. I also gave a rebate of $50 for every show, field, obedience title won up to, but not exceeding, the cost of the dog. Yes, in some cases, it could mean that the dog ended up being free to the people after all the rebates -- but then it also was to MY benefit to have the dogs worked.

Hi Sierra,

That's an excellent idea to offer rebates for workign trials. ob. wins - I think I might do something like that if and when I breed my shep. bitch...as I will be keen to for them to go primarily to worlking homes nad this is a good incentive for people to continue with training - excellent idea !

I agree I would also refund for any reason , but what about neglet ? How do you establish this and can you legally take back a dog? How does it work as this is something else I would like to pursue.

What do you recommend doing in order to draw up a puppy sale contract? Do you need a solicitor ?

This is what Idid when I found out the pup was neglected. . I travelled 130 mls to see for myself . the place I had viewed ended up not being the place Iwas told he was going to live. when we got there ,it was an open field and pup was in cage with a sheet of plastic over it held down with 2 concrete blocks, he was covered in his own mess . I.knocked on door and explained to man I was giving him back his money and taking back my pup as I had been misled as to his circumstances, as I was talking my sons were taking him anyway (not legal i know ) he took his money and said he was going to sell him so it made no difference to him.Icould not believe I got him back so easy. maybe it was because I had my sons with me .he is now 2yrs and 4 mts .and with a lovely family .

Puppy Sales contracts can be very useful but do remember that English Law is quite different to US Law in some respects eg "respossession orders". Many breeders state in their contracts that any dog of their breeding must be returned to them should the need arise & some also include the sort of "repossession order" mentioned by Sierra. I have looked into this & have discussed it with a British contracts lawyer on another list & we both agreed that repossession terms would be unlikely to be upheld under English Law as they interfere with an owner's rights over his/her property ie basically a buyer can do what they like with their own property. If neglect/cruelty was suspected, then the only likely avenue open to a breeder would be to contact the police/RSPCA (& we know how helpful they can be!) I don't know of any case where this area has actually been tested in a court in the UK but generally, UK law gives v strong rights to buyers & v limited rights to sellers. Similarly, many US contracts require a puppy to be neutered by the buyer, but again, UK breeders could not force their buyers to do this (even if they wanted to!)
Sierra, have you looked at the English Sale of Goods Act at all? Does it differ to US legislation? From my own studies of it, it imposes v strict liablity on sellers which can't be avoided,stopping sellers limiting or putting conditions on their liability. This means that many US puppy sales contracts would not be upheld in a UK court eg where a breeder tries to state that full refunds will only be given within a certain time frame & under certain conditions. Unfortunately most UK cases involving breeders & puppy buyers go to the Small Claims Court & are not reported but the few that have gone to the higher courts have demonstrated that it is possible for a reputable breeder to have done all necessary health screening tests but if they are unfortunate enough to breed a puppy with a genetic defect, then they can be held liable for the full purchase price, damages on top of this (to cover vet fees etc) & the buyer can be allowed to keep the dog. No sales contract could limit this liability apparently

My own view is that Puppy Sales contracts are a useful way to clarify various aspects of selling a puppy (eg is it for show or as a pet?) & giving written notice of any KC registration endorsements etc but they can't do much more than that! I think they should be kept simple & easily understood & no, you don't need a solicitor to draw one up. The Kennel Club at one time were looking into producing sample contacts for breeders but don't think anything has come of that yet, though some breed clubs have done this already for their members.

No, since I don't practice law here in the UK and haven't had need to draw up puppy contracts here yet, I haven't really looked into English law which does differ in many ways from US law. But then each State has a different set of laws also, which can prove to be bothersome. I always indicated that any disputes would be legated in accordance to the laws of the state in which I lived.

One of the prime things to remember though is to thoroughly discuss the terms of the contract with the person buying the puppy. If I had any hint of disagreement or non-conformance during the contract reading, I simply did not sell the puppy. I tend to be very hard when it comes to my dogs and have a forceful personality if I need to deal with unpleasantness. Another point to remember is that most people have no clue as to what the law is, so if you take the contract and go to repossess the puppy, they may or may not argue about it. I would always have already drawn up a case of action to be filed in the event that the person did not wish to abide by the repossession terms. Pointing out that the action would be brought against the buyer for neglect and that appropriate authorities and local news would be notified normally made the person understand the advisibility of returning the dog.

Yes, my contract would have a neuter clause for pet quality puppies -- but I would also offer a rebate for neutering and would have the registration papers indicate that no progeny from the dog was to be registered. If I believed it to be a problem with the person, again, I would simply not sell the puppy. If you will remember, most shelters, such as Battersea, require neutering of the adopted pets.

I would really need to have an indepth look at the English Sale of Goods Act since it seems that if there are no conditions upheld on length of time many of the places which state refunds only after ten days or guaranteed only if used under stated uses, etc. would be not upheld. It would also make warranties invalid since they should be for the life of the product. If we are looking at puppies as commodities versus lifestock (which is how the US law views animals), I would say that we can limit conditions, timeframes, etc.

In any event, I have found that the harsher and more detailed the contract, the more likelihood that the buyer who signs that contract will understand the heavy responsibility of dog ownership and will be the type of owner that I want for my puppies.

I understand what you're saying Sierra - I do use sales contracts myself but I keep mine quite basic & don't include the restrictive terms that are commonly used in the US. You're right of course that many consumers don't understand the law & would happily sign contracts that contain terms that would be invalid under English law but on the other hand, many buyers are often v well informed about their "rights" today. more so than in the past. I don't practice law but did study for a law degree for fun (yes it's possible :-) ) - my special interest is in consumer law & I have worked for a Trading Standards Dept in the past so am used to looking at things from the consumer's view, which may or may not be a good thing :-) Certainly in the UK, buyers are well protected by the Sale of Goods Act & also the Unfair Contract Terms Act (which restricts what a seller can include in a contract) & when cases get to court involving dog breeders, most (if not all) are decided in favour of the puppy buyer, even if those breeders have used sales contracts. Some of the decisions made by Arbitrators in the Small Claims Court seem heavily biased against breeders but most breeders are not in a financial position to take things further even if they had the determination to do so (most just want to put the whole thing behind them) Another factor is that there are very few practising solicitors with any knowledge or experience of dog breeding which doesn't help if you are a breeder looking for good legal advice.

The law does not make it easy for a breeder to protect their puppies (or themselves) in my opinion & I haven't found that reliance on sales contracts has helped any breeder/seller faced with a determined buyer. I'm not saying that sales contracts are a waste of time - just that they have their limitations :-)

Jane