My question is - how do you judge ?

What do you usually ask your dogs/handlers to do in the ring ? How do you approach the dog you are about to go over ? Do you always ask the age regardless of the class ? Do you ever speak to the dog ? Would you always have the whole class running round the ring together regardless of the numbers of dogs, size of ring, slippery surface ? What do you do if a dog is scared of you ? If a dog appears nervous of you but is overall a good, well constructed dog would you still place them ? If you are judging a breed that is not yours do you do any research prior to your appointment ?

These are not trick questions. I'm not asking them so that I can judge you! I am asking them because I have come across some judges that I'm not too keen on, they have done things which I think are stupid, in particular the way they approach the dogs and go over them and I'm just trying get my head around it all. Everyone has different opinions/ways of judging and I'd be interested to hear them, if anyone would like to reply.

Thanks! :-)

Well I'm not really surprised that I have so far had no replies to my posting :-)

Let me expand a little and see if some of you judges can explain why this might happen. :-)

You have a small ring, slippy surface, large class of large dogs and yet the judge still asks you all to run round the ring Difficult with a young daft puppy !!

When approaching your dog to go over him the judge will kneel down so that they are at eye level with the dog making direct eye contact. Is this not challenging behaviour

A dog backs off from the judge, obviously spooked for some reason, exhibitor explains to the judge that they will re-stack their dog. Judge proceeds to crowd the dog, not giving exhibitor much room to restack and stares down at the dog while exhibitor is trying to restack

Dog backs off from judge and tries to stand behind owners legs, judge proceeds to chase the dog trying to get their hands on it

Dog appears nervous so judge talks to dog in silly high pitched voice - surely enforcing the fact that the dog has something to be scared of ?

These are just some of the things that have either happened to me or someone else and when their dogs are a puppy and an adult. I don't understand why some judges behave in this way. Am I being picky or is it my lack of knowledge ?

Am I the only one that thinks if we are asking our dog to trust us 100% and stand in a show ring and allow a complete stranger to run their hands over them, then surely the judge must understand just a little of canine behaviour and body language and not approach in a threatening or challenging manner ??

Am I expecting too much then ? Cos I know that if I ever decide to go down the road of judging I know I won't be perfect but I'll do everything I possibly can to learn how to and how not to approach dogs, treat them and the exhibitor and MOST OF ALL research the breed I am judging !!

Sorry if this is long winded, I will eventually get off my soapbox :D But judges who don't give a damn what they are doing to other peoples dogs and how they are doing it is a real bugbear of mine. :-(

Most of your queries seem valid to me, Claire; all apart from the "silly, high-pitched voice". Many nervous dogs find a high-pitched voice much more reassuring..a deeper voice can be interpreted by the dog as a growl.

A judge should always say "hello" to the dog in a friendly, matter-of-fact voice....a well-trained dog with the right, confident attitude will respond to this. An exception may be the 'green' young pups who always need careful handling by the judge so that they are not spooked.

A judge crouching down will often be seen as less threatening than one looming over the dog, which is why some will do this.

Just my opinions. :)

Claire I always, always talk to the dog before handling and if its a pup I am very patient with him if unsettled ie wont let me see teeth i allow the handler to move him and try him again or allow handler to show dogs teeth.you can ruin a puppys confidence & show career in a short space of time with rough handling.

Umless I had a large area to move the dogs I would never have them running round all together.
I would not get down on the level of the dog bot look and access the dogs front on then side on then whilst speaking handle him etc..
I would only ask age in puppy,junior and novice no other .
It has not been unknown for me when judging junior handlers to allow them to move them to best advantage.

Hi Claire

I'm not a judge but I do take Ringcraft Classes occasionally so don't know if this will help or not.

When I'm going over the dogs I always approach in a friendly and confident manner saying hello to the dog and of course the owner. I gently check teeth and check over the whole body of the dog. If a dog doesn't like their teeth being checked I might try once or twice more then get the owner to do it. I never force the dogs to do anything or make them feel uncomfortable when I'm checking them over.

HTH

Dessie :D

Thanks everyone!

With regards to kneeling down in front of the dog, it didn't occur to me that some judges would consider this less of a threat My opinion is that kneeling down brings you in direct eye contact with the dog, therefore challenging.

I know all about judges who can scare a young puppy for life. I had no problems with my boy at all, he stood like a rock, then when he was 7 months old we had a rough judge who unfortunately was rough with my dogs *bits*. My boy jumped well out of the way! Then a few weeks later he got a scare when in a hall that was noisy and echoing and he jumped back from the judge, the judge then proceeded to chase him to try to get to go over him. :-( Since then I have had the occassional problem.

For example, if I have a confident judge, someone who approaches the dog very matter of a factly, goes straight in to stroke the head and look at the bite, at the same time saying something like "hello there, and how old is he" then proceeds to move round to the dogs side in order to go over the rest of his body then I know my boy will be fine. If I have a judge that kneels in front of him, getting real close, phaffs on for ages with his head, then proceeds to lean over my boys head in order to feel his shoulders, this will worry my boy. Depending on how he is feeling will depend on how he reacts.

Why do judges show the back of their hand ?? I know that people say it is to allow the dog to smell but surely you have more of your own scent on the palm of your hand. For example, you have just been to the loo and washed your hands, you are then touching things and doing things with your hands, then you come to show a dog your hand. What is left on the back of your hand ?? The scent of the soap because the back of your hand has come into very little contact with anything. I know people say that if you show the palm of your hand the dog may think you are going to hit him, but surely if your dog was that wary you wouldn't be showing him ?? So why not just go straight in, confident, give the dog a pat on the head and look straight at the bite ?

One judge lifted my boy up from the brisket and dropped his feet onto the floor to see how they landed. I thought this was mad until someone explained it was to see if he had good feet or not, because experienced handlers can position the feet to make them look good. Because this judge in particular did it so confidently my boy couldn't have given a toss and it was me who was surprised. I thought it was a pretty good idea too :-)

Hi,
I was told many, many years ago to always offer the back of your hand to any dog you've not met before - because if he bites, it'll be the back that gets hurt and not the sensitive palm which is much more difficult to heal successfully.

And to never pat a dog on the head - most hate it!! :)

My question is - how do you judge ?

What do you usually ask your dogs/handlers to do in the ring?
In breed classes stand at one side of the ring while I have an initial look over the dogs and then ask the owners to move their dogs around the ring finishing at the judging table.
How do you approach the dog you are about to go over?
Slowly and from the front with one outstretched hand palm downwards and back of hand approaching the dog
Do you always ask the age regardless of the class?
No only in age classes unless I suspect a baby in an adult class eg in Novice or Maiden.
Do you ever speak to the dog?
Usually I say ‘hello’
Would you always have the whole class running round the ring together regardless of the numbers of dogs, size of ring, slippery surface?
No. Maybe split the class but can see no reason for not moving around the ring, at this stage it is more an overview as the dogs settle in and the flooring is constant for all dogs.
What do you do if a dog is scared of you? HIDE :D
Go back later and see how it is then and judge on appearance and movement.
If a dog appears nervous of you but is overall a good, well constructed dog would you still place them?
Why not? If it is well constructed and moves well the nerves would be part of the overall interpretation of the dog.
If you are judging a breed that is not yours do you do any research prior to your appointment?
Yes research should be done prior to the show irrespective of which breed one is judging this may be an in depth study of the breed standard or, for your own breed, a refreshing of the breed standard.

Thanks again Guys. This is really interesting - well for me anyway :-)

I have only ever judged junior handling but I do show my dog just about every weekend and I have had some appauling judges. Not just the way they judge but the dog they put up. It wasn't that long ago that a judge who is not a breed specialist and infact no longer has gundogs gave a very good placing to a dog with so many faults it's unbelievable. This dog, bless him, is really no more than a pet, his construction is terrible which of course means that so is his movement. It's frustrating because I couldn't do or say anything about this judging because it would just look like sour grapes. As it happens I wasn't particularly happy with my performance so certainly didn't expect a good placing but one of the dogs that got placed behind this one is very well constructed and comes from very good breeding stock What an insult for that owner :-( All because the judge didn't have a clue. :-(

One good thing for me having been under some very good and very bad judges is that I will learn a lot. And hopefully, eventually, be a better judge for it. :-)