Hello,
Recently I have looked in several animal rescues and it got me thinking. Almost all of the dogs in there were cross breeds. Now I do not think people should be breeding cross breeds as the majority of the time the dam and sire are not good versions of their breed. So why doesn't the RSPCA, in a bid to stop so many rescues coming in, forward a ban of some kind to the goverment/KC or whoever deals with this suggesting that for a start no cross breed should be registered on the working register with the KC, and maybe suggest that all dogs coming into rescue are put to sleep? Surely this would decrease the number of neglected animals as people would think twice before discarding their cross breed pet.
Just a thought,
Charlotte

Firstly anyone taking the trouble to register their dog on the KC activities register is hardly the kind of person who needs to be targetted. Secondly, what's wrong with cross breeds or mongrels? Some people can't afford to pay out large sums of money that some pure breeds cost. However, the main problem (I believe) stems from people who breed for money, whether it be pure bred or not. These people don't care who their dogs go to, have no intention of taking back any dogs they have bred and just don't care. These are the people who should be targetted not someone who may have rescued a dog, wishes to partake in KC licenced events and takes the time and effort to get the dog registered so they can do these activities.
Personally I think that all dogs (and cats and maybe even rabbits) should be permenantly identified in some way and every animal bred can be traced back to it's BREEDER in the event that the owners are not locatable. Making breeders accountable for everything they produce, whatever that may be, may stem the tide of abandonees.
Bec

>>maybe suggest that all dogs coming into rescue are put to sleep? Surely this would decrease the number of neglected animals as people would think twice before discarding their cross breed pet.<<

Sorry, but this is laughable, as if THAT would stop them. And in my Rescue 80% of the dogs are purebred and the pounds. Being purebred doesn't mean it's a safe guard against being abandoned. Think again.

Taylor

The only thing that I have against crossbreeds is that they usually came into existence through someones lack of care for their dog/bitch allowing them to breed. This is also the case of most of the poor specimins of popular breeds that I see in my local dogs home. these mostly being GSD type, Staffie Type, Border Collie type, Terrier type, and Lurcher Type, Lab type, and Springewr types the rest are out and out mongrels, and a real good purebreed sticks out like a sore thumb and is usually claimed.

The lack of purebreds other than the very exploited breeds is probably down to breed rescue taking care of most of these.

I have all my pups identified before leaving me, as it does happen that an owner doesn't get in touch with the breeder, and it is only luck that the breeder knows their dog is in rescue. This has happened to several people I know, and in two cases the dogs on return to their breeder via the rescues they found themsleves in went on to become Champions.

I think the owner who so easily wants to dispose of a dog should be made accountable in some way, and should certainly be made to contribute to the dogs expenses until it is placed. Maybe abandonment should be against the law, and proper provision and finding a new home should be a joint responsibility of breeder and owner?

Ooops that would include me then! :D The only crossbreeds I own I 'bred'. Still I own 2 out of 3 of them!
Abandonment is against the law, including temporary abandonment i.e being left all day without adequate food, water and shelter.
Bec

Hello,
Thanks for your replies. What also makes me wonder about some rescues is why, if they are full up, they don't put to sleep the dogs that are 8 years plus. I mean who would go to a rescue looking for an old dog! By putting to sleep the older dogs would mean the younger ones got a greater chance of finding a new home. It would be a good idea if everyone who bred a litter had to have a liscense, and had to pay for a liscense - the more litters they bred the higher the liscense. It might make people think twice about breeding dogs and stop letting people be so careless with their bitch-in-season. Last week at my dog training I was horrified to see two dogs mating, found at later it was because they wanted to experiment what a Border Collie x Jack Russel would look like, something that made me feel very angry. If there was a rule as to what you could breed, maybe their wouldn't be so many dogs in homes, abandoned etc.
Charlotte

PUT TO SLEEP THE OVER 8YRS !!!!! wash your mouth out !!! the oldies in our rescue are sedate gentle,lovable sweethearts why put them to sleep ? what about old age pensioners they sometimes want an oldie to keep them company and cant cope with a youngster. what about retired guide dogs? there is always a big list of people wanting them !
I admit it can be harder to home oldies but to put them to sleep would be a crime.
Sorry your idea is terrible :( :(

>>What also makes me wonder about some rescues is why, if they are full up, they don't put to sleep the dogs that are 8 years plus. I mean who would go to a rescue looking for an old dog! <<

WHAT TRIP ARE YOU ON?????

I wont write anymore because I am ready to explode. Grmpf.

Taylor

I just hope my 10 year-old and 8 year-old never get lost and taken to kennels, then. That would be the end of them :(

OAP's have a great chance to be homed as a lot of people look for older dogs. I have just had a query concerning an old BC. So now.

Taylor

We have a lovely, elderly couple near us. They have recently acquired an elderly cocker spaniel. They lost their last cocker (also a rescue) a year ago. This latest dog's original owner died a year ago. It then went to some other people who gave it little exercise and overfed it, so it became very fat. Our lovely neighbours are now thoroughly enjoying themselves rejuvenating this dog - it is on a diet and is now having lots of exercise and is a very different dog :) :) The couple themselves are happy as they had missed their daily walks.

Daisy

Edited - Not very good on breeds - he's a springer :)

Same with two out of four of mine. :( In fact the older ones are seldom problem dogs, which a lot of the young ones are.

My parents decided they want another dog, but at their age they decided an older dog would be best. Where else would they get one?

Email me if you like im in rescue

<I mean who would go to a rescue looking for an old dog! >

I would - when the second of my bitches died I contacted my breed rescue to see if a bitch needed a new home & I had no worries about age - would have accepted a bitch at any age & I mean that - 10 or older would have been perfectly acceptable to me, so please don't assume everyone is the same as you.
Steph currently with 4 oldies all over 10 - one 15 next month

Oh dear, Char123, what are you saying? Are you advocating that purchasers of mongrel puppies should be supplied with a licence for a predetermined life span? For maybe 3, 5 or 8 years say, and at the end of this time the dog is put to sleep. Then when all of the over 8 year old mongrels are dead, would you then go on to extend this 'death warrent' to include all pure breeds?

Sorry, Char123, I don't like what you are saying in this matter. I think that nature has made a dogs life far to short as it is. I believe that ALL dogs (even mongrels) have a right to live a FULL life span.

Dogs are not to blame for being in a Rescue Home, it's owners.
:rolleyes:
Harry C.

PS. A 'mongrel' dosen't know that it is a mongrel, it is only 'people' who say that it is a mongrel.

Oh dear, my border collie will be 9 this year, and I would like to say she is as full of life as our one-year old, and does agility - she's not 'old' at all!
Incidentally, she is a rescue dog!

Disagree entirely!

I adopted an old (12-14 years, not sure) mongrel from our rescue centre 18 months ago (he's still going strong), and he's got to be the easiest dog in the world. There are loads of us out here with real soft spots for oldies, who need a peaceful retirement.

Crossbreeds, I prefer the term mongrels and feel no slight attached to the word, are probably the best dogs in the world (and I have a purebred GSD as well (my second) so I'm not biased). They have fantastic hybrid vigour, don't suffer the same hereditary problems that purebreeds have, and usually excellent temperaments (wide generalisation I know, but having seen loads of dogs in rescue - purebred and mongrel temperament wise there is no comparison. They also make a great first dog, which a lot of purebreds don't.

Giving some consideration as to how the human race has messed around with dog genetics and created so many problems, I think that mongrels are the saving grace of the dog world.

As for putting them all to sleep, well I'm gobsmacked. The dogs that rescue centres need to put to sleep are those that have been so screwed up by the people that owned them that they are agressive or have unfixable behavioural problems. Interestingly the dogs that have most of these problems in rescue are GSD's, border collies, and Staffs among other purbreeds.

Jilly Cooper wrote a book In Praise of the Mongrel, it's a celebration of their uniqueness and character, and I agree with every word she wrote.

I really don't know how you can have the point of view that they shouldn't exist. Elitism in the dog world isn't unknown I know, but I thought we were bigger than that. Look at pure breeds health and temperament problems before you condemn the mongrel.

Kat

Kat <Crossbreeds, I prefer the term mongrels >

these are two different things. A crossbreed is when two pure bred animals are put together - the pups are half X and half X. A mongrel is when you have a crossbreed bred to something else - purebred, crossbreed or "mongrel" so they are less than half and half.

Pam n the boys

I quite like the term Bitsa, or there is lways heinz 57!

My objection to the mongrels existence is that by and large they are accidents caused by their dams and sires lack of care for their dogs. Unfortunately many purebreds are also bred irresponsibly.

To me the mongerl can only be the sum of its ancestors, so depending on waht wnet into the mix they will vary in health temperament etc. The more mixed up ones have less liklihood of inheriting the same bad genes because of the wider gene pool, but I am sure many villages/estates have quite closely bred populations of mongrels, with the smew few males siring all the pups to the local bitches, and often siring them on thei own daughters.

This is certainly true in Poland where there is little or no ne3utering, and the local dogs look all of a type.

I know at one time ther used to be a mongrel type around her, the so called Bristol black.

Most of the crtosses will be of some of the more popular breeds around. We get an awful lot of Staffie crosses come to our classes, as well as the ever popular Lab, Collie or Terrier crosses.

Hi Pam

Yes I am aware of the difference, but having worked (and still working voluntarily) in rescue it is very rare that a dog stated to be a crossbreed is a true first cross. In a huge number of cases the heritage of the dog is unknown, but if it looks a bit like a border collie, it's called a "collie X". The term crossbreed has become acceptable (perhaps I should say is more palatable) than mongrel. If you term a dog a crossbreed in a rescue centre you have far more chance of re-homing it. People do generally seem to abhor the word mongrel. The Americans I feel have it right. They use the term "mix" which can be either a true crossbreed or an out and out mongrel, and it's a very "friendly" term.

I am sure that the poster of this original message wasn't only referring to first cross or "true" crossbreeds when she made her statement. So whilst I do fully accept your correction, my point was to defend non pedigree dogs whether crossbreed or mongrel.

Katrina

Funny enough, the German language for example doesn't distinguish. It's always a *Mischling*, a mix :).

Taylor

Maybe breed rescues have been intercepting some of the dogs destined for these rescue kennels you have looked in. I think anyone who has anything to do with rescues for their chosen breed will be able to tell you that they have an awful lot of pedigree dogs passing through their care annually.
Lara

In my local rescues, the crossbreeds and mongrels are probably in the minority (apart from the lurchers of course). Recently, I have seen Springers, Rottweilers, Weims, Yorkshire terriers and even a Cane Corso!
I also think that putting all over 8's to sleep is a terrible idea- apart from anything else, can you imagine how awful it would be for the staff at the rescue kennels, having to put all the dear old dogs to sleep?
I know there is no easy answer to the abandoned dog situation, but what right have we got to say who should be allowed to live and who should die, just because the dog is older/ crossbreed/ abandoned?
JMO
Liz

It is generally believed that Mongrels cross breeds etc live a much longer life than a pedigree so in fact at 8 would probably just be at their prime.
My dog that grew up with me as a child was 17 when he died

We have just had 1 elderly schipperked dog thru rescue when his owner died, he was 14 and has a wonderful new home. I was also sent piccies yesterday of a dog that had gone thru a rescue service when his elderly owner went into hospital with a terminal illness, the new owner was surprised to hear he was most likely a pedigree and he's 19 yrs old. Seems he's settled in very well even though he is almost blind and probably deaf, bit of a duvet and blanket hog by all accounts lol. The average life expectancy of a lot of breeds is 14 plus yrs in schips the oldest dog was a bitch that died just before her 22 birthday I think.

I cannot beleive that you think that any dog aged 8+yrs should be PTS!

I have worked in rescue kennels and the oldies are usually the first to go, they usually make better pets for people who want a dog but dont have time for toilet training etc, and personally I would rather have a lovely older dog, to make its last yrs special that a bouncy hyperactive teenager!

Im sorry but I think that is a very sad thought :-(

Vikki

PTS at 8yrs, what a horrifying thought Our previous dog was still full of life at that age and rapidly heading towards his ongoing midlife crisis :D

He was fit and healthy (only a little stiff when getting up) until the day he died, and up until that day I would still have put my on him beating a dog half his age to any dustbin of your choice!

Some of you have said in your answers that you the mongrels have no health problems and hereditary disorders etc. So what happens if a Peke is crossed with a Pug, which is crossed with a CKCS? Would you get a dog that had breathing problems and a heart problem or would you get a dog that was completely healthy?

Either or ...or even both ..or even neither ...and THATS the problem with deliberately cross breeding ;)

Actually I would say that is a problem with breeding full stop. Unless you have a long line and know exactly what is behind everything you own and have bred then you cannot really guarantee what will happen. Genes are strange things and the gene pools in todays breeds are relatively small and there could always be something lurking and you wont know about it till you put A with B.
Bec

Well that explains number 2 son then ;) :D

As Melody says, the pups could just as easily inherit the health problems of the parents as not. A wide gene pool also widens the potential to inherit illness.

Not wishing to pick an argument as I am by no means an expert on genetics :) - but I cannot believe that widening the gene pool causes more problems - as I have always understood, that one of the problems of the less numerous breeds was a small gene pool. Surely also, if you crossed a peke with another breed then the chances of getting a dog with breeding problems are reduced ? Now totally confused :( :)

Daisy

Edited - Having said that, son is doing a degree in genetics so will try to have a crash course when he gets out of bed :D

I've always found genetics a fascinating subject, and far from straightforward. Working on the theory that any animal (for example dogs) inherits some genes from it forebears, it is vital that as few 'bad' genes as possible are lurking in the 'genetic soup' from which an individual draws its characteristics. If a genetically healthy animal is crossed with similar, the offspring are also likely to be healthy. Put in an 'outcross' and the the chances are increased that something not so good is added.

Picking breeds that have already been mentioned, and not "having a go" at any breed, if a Peke with breathing problems is crossed with a CKCS with heart problems, you are as likely to get a pup with both heart and breathing problems as you are a pup with the peke's good heart and the cav's good breathing.

A small gene pool is fine if all the genes are 'good'! Until an outside problem crops up against which they cannot develop resistance (like bananas, which are likely to become extinct within 10 years because of a virus)

But all this is theory, of course! "Mother Nature" (in reality an evil old hag, not a benevolent granny-figure) doesn't read books! :)

Personally, I think that it is far too easy for anyone to own a dog. If any clueless Tom, Dick or Harry can pick up a local mongrel/puppy farm/petshop animal 'on a whim', it's no wonder so many unwanted litters are produced, and so many dogs taken to rescue. You don't even need a licence to keep a dog any more (showing my age there, hehehe :-) ). Our local council offers free neutering to people on benefits, but so many people just 'can't be bothered' to have it done, are afraid of the danger of surgery to their pet, or worse, want to deliberately breed because they think they can make a bob or two. Others, while providing perfectly good, loving homes for their dogs, just seem to lack knowledge - our dog Minx is a mongrel, produced from her mothers first season, because her owners didn't realise that the neighbourhood dogs would be quite happy to scale the fence around the back garden when she was let out to have a pee! They were then insufficiently well informed to know that they could have the 'morning-after' injection, and too soft hearted to take any other course of action. This wasn't done for money, Minx and her brothers and sisters were 'free to good homes', but when we collected Minx at 8 weeks, only 3 other puppies had been homed (from a litter of 10), the remainder had to go into rescue.
I would like to see a system introduced where owners are made accountable for their dogs, I'd even go so far as to suggest some form of 'test' before being granted permission to have a dog, to ensure a minimum level of knowledge. Of course, it'd never work, cost too much, etc, etc, but I'd join! Minx's breeders didn't ask us anything at all, so I assume the people taking the other pups were similarly 'ungrilled', I wonder what'll happen to those pups? Good breeders and rescue organisations at least take responsibility for what they are giving out, and do their best to check the knowledge and suitability of prospective owners, it's the rest of 'us' that are the problem!

It's not just the mongrels/puppy farm dogs though. We have a couple of examples round here where young, well-off couples/families own one/pair of smaller, fashionable dogs. The only exercise that they get is on a nice, sunny weekend, when the owners don their trendy 'country' clothes and go for a walk. We never see them in the winter or on rainy/cold days. If the dogs are let off they are a nuisance and cause havoc. One couple I know bought a pair of Llasa Apsos (can't spell !) because (as they told me) they don't need walking :( They were forever escaping from their garden and causing neighbours problems. Eventually, much to everyone's surprise (!) they had to be rehomed - just before they had a long holiday in Australia. These particular dogs came from a very good breeder :( Mongrels may not be everyone's cup of tea, but at least they couldn't be called a 'yuppy' accessory :)

Daisy

sorry I have come to this thread late but was so horrified by the suggestion that older dogs in rescue homes should be put to sleep after 8 yrs that I had to add my thoughts.

I used to work in a rescue home and our aim was that the next home these poor dogs would be in would be for life. Loads of people would actually prefer to take on an older dog who is calmer, house trained and might be easier to leave at home for a few hours than a younger dog. These older dogs have just as much right to a new chance as a puppy and any decision to reduce numbers in a home should certainly not be made based on age.

Charlotte, I wonder whether you have seriously thought about what you written? For a start the RSPCA already put to sleep too many dogs and other animals to suggest that they yet carry out more is just not acceptable. You then suggest that all X breeds comming into rescue are put to sleep to reduce the excesses of unwanted dogs. It is not only X breeds that are unwanted, pedigrees and mongrels are too.
The problem starts with over breeding, there are too many breeders breeding from their dogs without having homes for them, if this was not true then you would not see the ads in free and local papers or with the KC puppy list, pet insurance puppy lists and the internet etc. the ads are every where. This coupled with the puppy farmers and commercial breeders breeding in excess to supply the pet shops, impulse purchase often results in an unwanted puppy or dog.
No the only way to stem the flow is identification of the puppy by law making this the responsibility oof the breeder of every puppy pedigree, X breed or mongrel. This due to cost would discourage some breeders but not all from excessive breeding. At least it would ensure that every puppy born could be linked back to the breeder, making initially the breeder responsible for that puppy then the new owner. At least someone would be legally responsible for the ownership of the puppy/dog. Where as now anyone can put a dog on the street (it is illegal to abandon a dog) but no one is made responsible for it unless the dog can be identified. Anyone can deposit a dog in rescue for any stupid reason valid or otherwise again no one made accountable.
I agree, something seriously must be done, to be made law to decrease the numbers of unwanted dogs but euthnasia is not the answer, exspecially as was suggested at 8 years of age! - how hearless is that!! Neutering and spaying yes, that would curb the overflow of excessive breeding and so would banning puppies being sold from pet shops. Put identification, neutering/spaying and the banning of puppies sold from pet shops together then that will decrease the amount of unwanted discarded dogs immensly.
Pat

Hello,
Thanks for all your replies. The rescue near me puts all dogs to sleep if no one gets them after 2 months, this is mainly due to them always being booked with dogs coming in. I recently had my Afghan Hound pts, he was 12, not alot wrong with him but he was fitting about every week or so and it was causing me too much stress. Older dogs always seem to cost rescue a lot more money with vets bills because it's this age where things start to go wrong. I've got a 3year old BC and a 10mth old BC and both have never had a days illness.
At the end of the day nothing is ever going to change regarding rescues putting dogs to sleep and people breeding just for money. It costs too much. Just thought I'd mention it.

Hi, please can you email me off line giving me the details of the rescue that puts all dogs to sleep after 2 months? Thanks Pat

>>and it was causing me too much stress<<

You had the dog pts because it was causing YOU too much stress? What kind of a person are you? For whatever reason I think you sound like a troll.

Taylor

Maybe we should put the idiots to sleep who cant or wont responsibly look after a dog.
That way if we did away with all the irresponsible owners and unethical breeders we wouldnt have this problem in the first place ?
:)

( and i'm serious)

Lel for president :)

Taylor

CHAR123. Did I read that right? You had your 12 year Afghan destroyed when there was not a lot wrong with him, just because he was fitting every week or so???? I hope I have misunderstood your post but I await clarification on that point.

John

There John, that's quite clear, isn't it?

>>I recently had my Afghan Hound pts, he was 12, not alot wrong with him but he was fitting about every week or so and it was causing me too much stress. <<

Taylor - yuck

Owning a dog can be a richly rewarding partnership if you meet each others needs. A 12 year old dog who fits weekly needs support and stability, love and care in its dotage. A neurotic selfish owner caring far more for their own needs who can't cope with the given situation doesn't fit the bill :(. Disagreeing with probably all of you - I think this dog is far better off euthanised. However, I don't feel people like this poster make suitable owners to take on the responsibility of dog ownership.
Lara x

Sorry - I cant believe you posts on here! Having worked in rescue, I have never heard of a rescue who routinely put dogs to sleep after two months. You say that crosses/mongrels should be PTS, you say old dogs should be PTS, you had your pet put to sleep quote "it was causing me too much stress"? And you have animals still? What would you do if someone stole your dog/it got out, and it ended up in a rescue? Would you expect the same rules for them? 2 months and the blue juice? Huh! I really hope for the state of humanity that you are what internet boards call a "troll".

What is a troll (in internet terms I mean!) Is it someone who justs posts an outrageous statement (like the one I just replied to) to cause aggro?

K

Hi Katrina,

here is an excerpt of an Internet Language Encyclopedia:

>>troll

An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer. Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it.

Also, the person who posts such messages. <<

Taylor