The breeder of my pup suggests that I get a crate for him, which I totally agree with. However, she suggests that I put his bed in half of it and paper in the other half so that he has somewhere to go to the toilet at night. I have read several times on here that you should block off half of the crate so that he is more likely to wait and is housetrained more quickly.
Another point, I was thinking of sleeping in the lounge (where his crate will be) for the first few nights and take him outside as necessary. I thought it would be better than just leaving him by himself or taking him to my bedroom as I don't intend to let him upstairs at all.

What are people's thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Sarah

definetly only put a bed in the crate, that is the whole purpose of crate training. Dogs don't like to soil their den. I think it's a great idea to have the pup close to you at night. Although you are still going to hear the whinning the first night or two.

Carissa

I would only add that if you only put the bed in then be prepared to get up and let your pup out to toilet in the night otherwise you are very likely to force him to have to soil his bed as he is unlikely to go through the night for some time.

I did this with my boys and it worked great.

Pam n the boys

Why is it a problem if they soil their bed ? My pup never made any noise at night to be let out. She did wee in her bed for a week or so - but was then dry at night. I have never got up to her at all in the night. She is now ten months old and is quiet and clean all night - she hasn't slept in her crate for the last 3 months.

Daisy

Daisy,

The problem is some dogs do not mind as much as others and they get used to weeing in their beds -- and they don't stop. And they don't necessarily draw the line at weeing either.

Stacey

Thanks - I can see what you are saying. I was advised not to get up in the night to her as it would discourage her from settling at night - fortunately, she settled very quickly as she was with our other dog :)

Daisy

We've always got up in the night with pups as they can't be expected to hold it all night. But as they get older we push the time we get up with them later and later until finally they are sleeping through.

Never had a problem.

Even now occasionally the dogs will need out in the night - not common, but occasionally.

Wendy

Sarah,

If you are not able to let your pup outside at night and the crate is much larger than the puppy needs it is okay to paper half of the crate. However, puppies grow quickly and they do not want to sleep near their own waste, so the crate method your breeder suggested really isn't effective for very long.

Ideally, the crate is the proper size for the puppy (or you block off the excess) and you take the puppy outside at night. If that's not possible then you would be better to set up a small puppy pen, put the bed in one corner and newspapers in the rest. Your puppy will then be able to go to toilet far enough away from its bed.

As tough as it is for a couple of weeks or months (depending on the age/breed of your puppy and how long you like to sleep) it really is better not to allow the puppy to go in the house at all. It would be a good idea to sleep with the puppy in the lounge for a few days. Once you know how often it needs to wee you can then set your alarm (eek!) and wake up to take it out.

Stacey

Stacey

hi i have a five month old westie who is crated and complety dry from night until morning.
i didnt put paper in his crate, but for the first few weeks he used to go to the toilet twice through the night (he would let me know by crying) so i would get up and take him outside this only lasted a few weeks and then he went through the night.
personally they are like babies eventually they will go through the night of their own doing and without force. when they do you will have plenty of un interupted sleep.
i dont feel there is a need to leave pups holding on all night if they cant.
once their bladder matures and are able to hold on then sleepless nights will be gone.
my advice take the pup to the toilet at night if he needs to go
i think it makes them secure to know you will take them if needs be.
maybe this is why they go through the night dry sooner (no pressure on them i suppose)
jo

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I am hoping to get quite a large crate so that he can still use it when he is full grown if he wants. You've helped me decide to put only his bed in there and block any 'spare' space until he grows into it. And I will sleep near him for a while and take him outside as necessary.

What's the best way to deal with whining at night? I don't want him to get into the habit of getting attention, but I do want to reassure him that this new strange house is nothing to be afraid of! :)

Thanks again,
Sarah

When he whines at night at first take him straight outside (perhaps on lead) and encourage him to go to the bathroom. If he doesn't bring him straight back in and pop him in his crate and ignore him. If he does praise him greatly then pop him in his crate and ignore him. He will soon learn that the only reason you will let him out in the night is to go to the bathroom, NOT to play.

Eventually he will stop whining unless he has to go to the bathroom.

Wendy

Hi,
I have been advised by my breeder and vet not to go to a whining puppy in the night, they are only doing it for attention and once you give in you will not get it to settle all night.
I was planning to corner of a part of my new pups crate with one of those training mates (basically nappy material) for it to go to the toilet in the night. Unfortunately we will not hear if she whines in the night to go to the toilet. Could you please advise me on why it is wrong to have the toilet area in the crate? All advice will be appreciated.
Thanks, PJB

I've always found that a whining pup (like a crying baby) needs something! If a pup whines to go out, then surely that is what we want - a clean pup that wants to go out! If it can't "hang on" - and they often can't last very long - we force them to dirty indoors, and then we get cross about it. Seems confusing and unfair to me.

Why won't you be able to hear her? Many people have the crate in their bedroom in the early stages of having a pup, and move it down to the kitchen when the pup is settled and clean, and find this works very well.

If a puppy whines during the night, it is very likely he needs to go out. Ignoring him would be very unkind - how else can he ask ?

I use a baby alarm so that I can hear if the pup makes any noise at night
Anne

Basically your breeder is telling you not to go to your pup and get it into the habit of playing during the night - if you follow my advice and the others who answered this same question with similar good advice, you won't get a dog who whines to play, you'll get one who whines because they have to go out. And that's actually what you want - you WANT your dog to go outside. IF you provide him a potty area IN his crate you are telling him it is okay to go in his crate and you may end up with a dog that just doesn't GET IT that he's NOT to go in the crate/house/living area etc. The object of crate/house training is to teach the dog to go outside.

Papers/training mats etc even when NOT in the crate should still not be close to their sleeping area so that they learn not to soil their sleeping area.

As for not hearing her you could set your alarm for 4 hours after you go to bed - take her out to do her business then put her straight back in to sleep. Keep this for a week or so, then make it 5 hours after you go to bed for a week, then 6 hours etc until you have her sleeping through the night.

You will do fine!

Wendy

I understand what you are saying but if the puppy learns that she can only to her business outside what happens when, for whatever reason, she can't get let outside, where does she do it? Surely if she has been taught that paper/training mat is acceptable she will do it there and not wherever she chooses in the house. Please don't think that I am being argumentative I am just trying to get it right. I do not agree with getting up in the middle of the night to them, I understand that dogs think in simple terms and any attention, good, bad, for 1 minute and 10 minutes is better than nothing.
PJB

If you are providing an alternative place for her to pee then it MUST be separate from her bed. If you are insistent that you won't take her out in the night then you need to provide an alternative arrangement for her. From what you describe you won't get up even though she is doing what she is trained to do and ASKING to go outside, so the only other alternative would be to buy a puppy pen, put her crate in the puppy pen and leave it open. On the OPPOSITE side of the puppy pen from the crate put the paper for her to go on so she can leave her bed and go to the paper. You CAN'T teach the puppy that it is OKAY to pee in it's bed, and then expect it to be clean in it's bed later in life. It just doesn't happen that way.

You have had several people now tell you this all with SEVERAL years experience raising, breeding and caring for puppies and dogs.

I think we/they know what we/they're talking about.

The idea IS for the puppy to eventually learn they can ONLY do their business outside.

If you want my honest opinions I DO NOT and WILL NOT ever provide papers for my dogs. I teach them that OUTSIDE is the ONLY acceptable place to pee.

In an emergency (if I've happened to be away too long in a day - something has come up and I can't get home) if an accident happens it's no big deal. But overall my experience with papers is mixed. When younger I had some that trained great and then transferred to all 'business' outside, and we had others that could never be trained to outside only and we were then forced to have papers available to them in the house for life or they would pee where they felt like.

I now believe that training to outside all the time means NO mixed signals. If you don't teach them that it's sometimes okay to pee in the house then you don't cause them any confusion.

You asked for people's opinions, and you have received them. It's not what you want to hear so you seem to be pushing us to agree with you and I'm sorry I just can't.

btw - when you have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night do you get to leave your bed or do you make yourself stay in it? When your kids have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night do you allow them to get up and use the toilet or do you make alternative arrangements in their room for them?

WHY can't the puppy be allowed to go to the bathroom in the place where it is to go for the rest of it's life?? YOU are NOT teaching it bad habits if you follow the routine I set out earlier and take it out when it asks and teach it that when you get up to it in the middle of the night it is for doing it's business only and not play. MANY of us have had success with this. It is UNFAIR to expect a puppy to hold it or to teach a puppy confusing messages.

Wendy

PJB

In my experience I got up in the night when the puppy whined - I took him straight outside and stayed with him until he pee'd etc. He then got praise and staright back in the crate. No play or anything else. No prolonged whining or anything ensued - he simply settled straight to sleep. The vast majority of puppies are restless the first few nights in a new home. I found letting them sleep in a crate in my room settled them immediately. They only whined when they needed the loo. They have never soiled their crate as if they wake in the night they are let straight out. Having said that they haven't woken in the night since they were about 16 weeks old. Now 2 & 3.

The knack is to ensure that you don't play or interact in anyway - other than to take the pup out to toilet, then out him/her straight back to bed. If they see they are only going to get put out then they don't whine - unless they need to go out.

They will try it on but in my experience only a few times.

If you are not prepared to get up in the night to your pup then you have to expect accidents. Where they do them will depend on how you decide to train them. If you use paper then that's where they'll go - but often puppies become confused with paper and find it hard working out if they should or shouldn't go on paper or not.

If during the day when I am out, either of my boys just cannot hang on any longer - which is very very rare - they go right next to the door that they are waiting to open. No paper - just vinyl floor covering which cleans very easily.

hth
Pam n the boys

PS - I also meant to add - do you intend spending a period of time at home when you get your new puppy? I suggest no less than two weeks for you to spend purely on getting the puppy settled in and to get a really good grounding with toilet training. If you put the work in at the beginning it does reap rewards. They are no different to children when it comes to house-training. Some take longer than others but all take time and will have accidents - but you can help reduce those accidents by putting in the effort in the first place.