im trying to trace the pedigree one one of my dogs back further than 5 generations, but have stumbled at one dog where i have not been able to find any information about, so if anyof you know anything about the flatcoat bitch HALSTOCK STARGIRL, inc parents i would be very greatful
thanks

Yes well you wrote to the right place! I have Halstock Stargirl in my dogs pedigrees way back! If you ever get stuck researching a pedigree for a flatcoat, then email:-

ronadixon13@btopenworld.com

Rona has every flatcoat on a data base going back to the 1800's. She also keeps a record of all eye testing results, hip scores and awards any flatcoat gets! She is always pleased to help anybody who is interested.
In the meantime,
Halstock Stargirl is sired by Nor. Ch. Halstock Lone Ranger out of Halstock Ambleside Star
Nor. Ch. Halstock lone Ranger is by Halstock Downstream Daniel out of Halstock Jade
Halstock Ambleside Star is by Ch. Woodway out of Charlotte of Roysia
Halstock Downstream Daniel is by Ch. Woodlark FTA out of Salik Donna
Halstock Jade is by Ch. Stolford Whinchat out of Sh.Ch. Halstock Black Jewel
Ch. Woodway is by Int. ch. Donovan FTA out of Ch. Woodpoppy FTA
Charlotte of Roysia is by Ch. Waveman FTA out of Downstream Medea FTA

Hope the above helps. What is the name of your dog?

thanks thats just what i was after,

my dogs are Hazelmere Cassia and Morrieland Storm, ititial I was Just doing Cassias but since they have the same sire and since the Morrieland line goes back to Hazelmere I will probably do Storms as well since the pedigrees are so similar

Heather

I know the Browns! I remember Howard showing his beautiful bitch Falswift Black Lace. Black Lace I think is the litter sister to Falswift Black Storm who is in my dogs pedigree! By Tonggreen Storm Petrel ex Halstock Primula of Ravenscrest. Johnwho posts on here has a huge data base of flatcoats and does really nice pedigrees for me.

THe Browns have been really helpfull to us in getting involved in the breed and without the we couldnt have done as much as we have without them (theres a bit in the FCRS newsletter about all we did at crufts this year),
I think I have seen Black Storm somewhere ours pedigrees although i cant find it know, but she does have the same parents as him. Whats surprising me at the moment is how closley all the dogs are related in that the same dogs crop up time and time again with very few others, and waht is going to be interesting is comparing both my dog and bitches pedigree together even though they have the same sire and both go back to Black Lace along their mothers side but the rest should be interesting.

Welcome to the forum Heather :-)

When you realise that at one time Flatcoat numbers were down to single figures it's easy to see why so many lines go back to the same few ancestors. Again, in any breed, out of every 1000 dogs there are possibly less than 50 pairs actively involved with producing puppies! Of course, this makes it so important that breeding stock is so carefully screened for hereditary problems as has been stated time and time again by the caring posters on this board.
If there are any other dogs on your pedigree you need info on please post and I’m sure someone will have the answers.

Regards John :)

I knew that eventually the number of dogs on the pedigrees would become limited but was expecting it to happen much firther back so when the same dogs started to crop up withint 7 and 8 generations i was a bit surprised. Although when you consider that the number of flatcoats after the last WW was limited it ist that surprising really.

There is another dog which keep cropping up which i cant find any more details for which is Hartshorn Sweetbriar - any ideas as to who her parents are?

Hi Heather,
Falswift Black Lace, Falswift Black Jewel and Falswift Black Storm are litter sisters and brother. Falswift Black Jewel was the holder of the Pewcroft trophy for Best Dual Purpose Gundog, having won awards in the show ring and at trials.
Hartshorn Sweet Briar is by Teal of Hawksnest ex Nesfield Stratton
Teal of Hawksnest is by Gaff of Riverside ex Pewcroft Peep FTA
Nesfield Stratton is by Pewcroft Page FTW ex Ch. Claverdon Miss Tinker
Gaff of Riverside is by Nobby of Riverside FTA ex Waaf of Riverside
Pewcroft Peep is by Sweep of Riverside ex Pewcroft Peg
Pewcroft Page FTW is by Sweep of Riverside ex Pewcroft Peg
Ch Claverdon Miss Tinker is by Ch Atherbram Nobbie ex Claverdon Celeste
I have more!!!!!!! If you get stuck again either I can help or Rona.
Hartshorn Sweet Briar is the dam of Rona Dixon's Suzy Wong FTA. Rona will always help out with enquiries on pedigrees. She has a data base going back to the 1800's, plus she records all health scheme results and awards gained by any flatcoat. ronadixon13@btopenworld.com
Hartshorn Sweet Briar had a litter sister called Int FT CH Hartshorn Sorrel.

Just to add, that it is true that flatcoats were down to single figures after WWII. The gene pool was so small that they were allowed to be interbreed with labradors, since before the war the labs had a small gene pool and were allowed to interbreed with flatcoats! In fact as late as the early 1970's there are records of litters being born and if the dog resembled a flatcoat was registered as such and if a litter mate resembled a lab it was registered as such. Somewhere here I have an old year book from that time and it is recorded in there that from one litter the breeder kept two pups. One bitch and one dog. One was registered as a lab and the other as a flatcoat. The breeder won both the Labrador Club and Flatcoat Society field trial open stakes with this litter bother and sister.
We probably have a much smaller gene pool than many flatcoat owners think we do!

In those days Retrieves were never classed as breeds! Rather Varieties and as such inter breeding was allowed under certain circumstances.

John