Hi all,
A little while ago I mentioned that someone involved with Chihuahua breed rescue advised me that KC papers were often witheld by by breeders. (In an apparent to discourage breeding.)

However, I was then informed that this breed rescue does not routinely neuter their rescue dogs. Now, surely if they are so keen to prevent irresponsible breeding, they would want to neuter the rescue dogs that they re-home?
Let's be honest, it is the only reliable way to prevent someone from breeding from an animal.

I just wondered if it is common for breed rescues to pass on entire dogs?
As someone with thirteen years experience with local animal welfare, I find it
quite horrifying!!!

And where do you suggest that breed rescues get the money to neuter all the dogs that come through their hands? Many breed rescues struggle to survive as it is. Sometimes all their hard earned resources are taken up with caring for the dogs in question. Have you stopped to think that maybe they do not have time to fundraise or the facilities to care for the dogs after they have had an operation? Not all rescues have a bottomless pit of money. If only!

I guess the larger rescues can afford it as they do it in-house.

I know a couple of local rescues around here that don't neuter dogs... they simply could not afford it.

I think it is not only desirable but a neccesity that all bitches and dogs are neutered before rehoming. Whilst I agree that some pedigree breed rescues may struggle financially, there are many others that manage to support a neutering programe. If pedigree breed rescues are in need of financial assistance then surely pedigree dog breeders should be doing more financially to support their specific breed. After all they have all helped in producing a surplus of unwanted dogs by breeding litters that they do not have homes for prior to mating. Not all breeders home check to try to try to ensure a good home is found. Look how many advertise litters of puppies for sale when trying to breed that one 'special puppy' to show - all the rest are surplus to requirement. Not all breeders are prepared to take a puppy back let alone an older dog, they need the specifice breed rescues but many individuals are loath to support pedigree breed rescues, why I would like to know?
Many of the general rescues are quite wealthy if they have charity status look at their incomes on the charities commisions web site, you will be surprised. Most can quite easilly afford to neuter and many do, those that do not are acting irresponsibly and really one should question whether they should be involved in rescue. To rehome a dog from a rescue without neutering is perpetulating the risk of unplanned matings and more unwanted puppies and ultimately dogs.
One rescue I know ensures that people neuter dogs that he rehomes by the new owner returning the dog to his kennels withing two weeks of rehoming when he will take it to the vet of their choice and ensure it is neutered but the new owner pays the cost. They agree to that at the onset and know that if they do not agree the dog will be returned to the rescue collected by the owner. It does seem to work.
It is not an easy one but with such a large amount of dogs being destroyed in the Uk for the lack of people wishing to home one some positive action needs to be taken. One being neutering, secondly positive compulsory identification for ALL puppies making the breeder responsible for this, many will not like it but that is what I would like to see.
Pat

The rescue local to me supports our village and the surrounding areas. They are ALWAYS filled to capacity with crossbreeds. They have 25+ dogs at any one point. There is no way they could afford to neuter all of them.

I agree it would be ideal if all rehomed dogs were neutered; but it would be ideal if a) all breeders accepted responsibility for their pups, and b) owners giving them up the dogs informed the breeder in the first place! Many times the first thing the breeder knows about a pup of theirs in rescue comes from the breed rescue society, not the owner!

The welfare service for my breed rehomes about 150 animals a year with about another 130 in foster homes, kennels, "pending" or helped to stay in their homes by hiring trainers/behaviourists etc. How much would that cost?

When I got my Flatcoat, almost a year ago. The understanding was, that at any time, should I be unable to look after my dog, the breeder would take her back, full refund (I wouldn 't dream of taking a penny should I have to return my baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!) My breeders priority were her pups, they will always be her pups, at the end of the day, what is best for the dog is paramount.

I'd like to add to that Pat re the identification aspect, I have now qualified as a microchipper and will be chipping all rescue dogs that pass thru our breed rescue free of charge even at cost the rescue could not afford it. So I am offering a chipping service to my fellow breeders at a reduced cost to help cover the cost of chipping for rescue - by hook or by crook I'll make em support rescue lol. In the last 48 hrs I have a list of over 50 animals to chip by the end of the mth, I am amazed as I thought most of them already chipped their dogs am begining to think it's only me!

Here here admin I help with my breed Rescue and believe me it is a very difficult job indeed, the kennel club do not allow us to be a part of our breed club we have to be a separate entity. Most BSR co ordinators are breeders, club members and or committee members who have to work to earn a living to keep themselves and their dogs etc. They do this on top of everything else, many don't claim any expenses from the Breed Rescue simply because there is NO Funds left to pay their phone bills or fuel costs! Fund raising is a nightmare especially within the minority breeds there just aren't enough of us to keep giving and Joe public don't have a clue what the breed is etc, we can't compete with the RSPCA and other larger local high profile charities.

We receive calls from council run rescue centres on the last day a dog is allowed to stay usually it's - it's been here for 6 days if you can't collect it by 5pm today we'll be putting it to sleep! We don't always have folk who can just drop everything to go collect a dog from a kennel several hundred miles away, they also expect us to pay them sometimes! We try to identify the dogs and return them to the breeders but what do you do if the breeder isn't a member of the breed club or isn't in a position to take their dog back say they have kennel cough in their own dogs they can't have a new dog in now can they? We then go to our foster home list and try to find someone who can take them for us until we have made arrangements for a suitable home from our waiting list, this sometimes fails too so we have no choice but to put the poor animal in a local kennel for the duration at a reduced cost.

We have to beg local vets to treat the sick or injured amongst these rescues and pay them over a period of time, fantastic you say but they will only do this with emergency or necessary treatments, there just isn't the money there to neuter every animal that comes thru our hands. Many of these animals also come without registration documents but those that have them we don't pass on in a bid to prevent further breeding, we tell new owners that they Must neuter these dogs but at the end of the day no matter what you draw up and have them sign will not stand up in court so it has to be on a good will basis. A large proportion of the dogs that come thru rescue have been produced by non members or even only vaguely resemble our breed and obviously aren't what was claimed but we take them anyway and find them a good home.

Hi all,
I fully understand the cost of neutering, vet bills etc as I am actively involved with anaimal welfare work, though small animals now.
Until fairly recently I was secretary of a local animal rescue, involved with all animals, including dogs. I too worked, ran a home, cared for my own and "foster" animals. I also found time to fund raise. All of the dogs and cats in our care were neutered, health allowing before they were adopted. New owners were expected to pay a reasonable donation towards the cost, thankfully our local vet neutered at a reduced rate.

Surely in breeds where the numbers going through rescue are relatively small and there is a waiting list to adopt and I should think this is true of most of the smaller breeds, genuine would be owners would be more than willing to contribute to rescue costs. Lets face it people unable or unwilling to make a sensible donation, aren't going to be keen to cough up for future vet bills.

It's mentioned that rescues struggle to meet costs, yet the rescue that contacted me, tells me that they don't ask for an adoption fee??? Simply a donation, sorry but it just doesn't make sense to me.

It would seem the obvious thing to direct owners with unwanted pedigree dogs towards their breed rescue rather than a general dog rescue. It seems however that the interests of the dog may be better served by reputable general rescue kennel, i.e. it would be neutered, vaccinated and chipped before re homing.

I know some dog rescue rganisations are reluctant to contact breed rescues, could this be the reason why? I genuinely used to think that breed rescues were the best people to deal with their dogs, not so sure now.

I think some of the time that general rescue societies don't even contact breed rescue for help in rehoming is that they don't know what some of the breeds are! There was the case (featured on Pet rescue!) where the RSPCA kennel had "a dalmatian cross" which was obviously purebred (you don't get good spotting on a crossbred one - it's the first characteristic to go) - they thought it must be crossed with a labrador because it was overweight!! It wasn't that long ago that a Gordon Setter went missing, and despite daily phonecalls to the kennels from the frantic owners it was very nearly put to sleep. (the vet recognised it for what it was and by chance mentioned the breed) The kennel had it logged as a dobermann/cocker spaniel cross

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your comments.
Perhaps it is time more breeders took an active interest in their own breed rescue and supported them in even some small way?
Or are most way to busy showing and breeding?
Anyway as I said, thank you for throwing a little light on the issue and for the interesting remarks, mostly worrying, but enlightening...

I run a PRIVATE rescue. I work two part time jobs and have over 20 dogs here at any given time. ALL my dogs will be neutered before homing. It's no use to do a job if you do it half ar**ed. I am sick of rescue orgs who home entire dogs, purebred or not.

Taylor

Well done Taylor, I thank heavens some rescue organisations see how important neutering really is. I have found that it is not just the larger organisations that neuter routinely but many of the small independant ones like yourself.
Good luck with your rescue work and continue to set an example!
Good luck and best wishes

So who looks after the 20+ dogs when you are out working Taylor? Is anyone on your premises when you are working or are you lucky enough to work from home? And do you kennel recently spayed bitches or do you take them into your home and care for them 'one on one' until they are fully recovered from their operations?

Ive been lurking on this one but taylor I want to know the answer to that one as you are either very well off financially or Im missing something here.
I am in Labrador rescue and at the last count have had thirty five labs in so far this year!!! we use a boarding kennel to housethe dogs so I would not put a bitch through the trauma of being spayed then going back into the kennel and be locked away for the night to her own fate.
In an Ideal world I would have a lovely big house and no dogs of my own to house and be able to nurse all the spayed bitches for ten days then allow them into a new home,the reality is we thoroughly home check our adopters and get a vet reference if we are happy they can adopt on the condition they do not breed and sign a form to that effect and spay the bitch when she is settled at the correct time as well then if help is needed with the cost we will help with that .A great deal of trust is needed but Ive been doing rescue ten plus years and Im happy to say the system has worked for us.
Also have you considered that it is only SAFE to spay in between seasons we had one poor black lab in who had been so badly treated her ear flaps cut off !! to make her look like a pit bull type she had had at leats three litters in her young life we found her the perfect home and they couldnt wait for a season and had her spayed straight away and she bled to death, so this perfect neutering policy is not always the answer.As for nuetering males I would never Have my males nuetered so I feel its a matter of personal choice and thats not for breeding either

sorry to be brutally frank folks but this is something that I feel very strongly about

Mattie,

Such a horrible story about the poor lab bitch who bled to death just when a good life was in the offering.

I wish there were more vets who gave their services free or at very low cost to rescue shelters. When I was very involved in Cairns in the States there was, and still is, a very active breed rescue program. We were always trying to raise money and did have dogs and bitches neutered before they were rehomed. My bitch had a litter and I donated the price of one puppy to rescue, which was the only way I could do it without feeling the pinch in my wallet. You can only sell so many cheap Cairn pins or homemade cakes ...

Neutering or not is a personal choice, however, I do not understand the reason why you are okay with neutering bitches but keep your dogs intact. "It takes two to tango."

Stacey

I cant really say why I never have my own males nuetered Ive only ever had four and its just something I havent thought of as they only ever go out with me do not roam the streets they do not have antisocial behaviour ie:bonking cushions or furniture or legs etc watering furniture etc.. ive been very lucky
There have been some very odd difficult labs in rescue who had a bad start in life and have had to be nuetered for various reasons.
Hopefully soon we are going to achieve our dream of a sanctuary for labradors its very close now so will probably then be able to realistically have a nuetering scheme funds & nursing provided.
I have always done things to the very best of my ability and I hope always put the welfare of labradors first and with the funds that i have managed to raise over the years I believe that people have the right to do their job to the best of their abilty without criticism and if we can get these dogs in decent homes by doing our homework first then at least thats something

Glenys

You do such wonderful work for Lab Rescue. Here's hoping your dream sanctuary happens sooner.

Pam n the boys
xx

Thankyou Pam.:)

Today i spoke to two different people one who adopted a bitch from battersea and no she wasnt nuetered they had trusted her to do it and she did.

The other was from RSPCA and that wasnt nuetered either so if the mega bucks RSPCA dont nueter there isnt much chance for small rescues perhaps we should all ask for a lottery grant for nuetering

Hi all,
The reality is that many of the smaller dog rescues are routinely neutering..and constantly fundraising to cover costs.

I appreciate that those doing "the donkey work" in breed rescue must find it a struggle, especialy as it seems they receive so little support from fellow breeders.
Perhaps it is time that all the caring dog owners who are breeding for the love of the breed, started to show some compassion towards the dogs that end up in rescue.

I thought that it was a lovely and generous gesture to donate the puppy fee from the Cairn puppy to rescue. Couldn't more breeders consider doing this? Or perhaps breeders who are refusing to give KC papers could donate the £12 KC fee that they are saving from each puppy to their local breed rescue?