Loving the dogs bringing back rats and hedgehogs, it reminds me of a story I heard about a man who rescued a baby starling and it couldn’t be released so he kept it as a pet.

This bird had a habit of picking up anything and everything a bit like a crow or magpie with shiny things, and the man started doing the swap game - he’d take the object and the starling got a raisin.

Very quickly he realised that the starling was deliberately seeking out more and more objects to bring to him for raisins, so he’d actually made the problem worse!

Ah, Silverleaf, that's the Dog has Found a Sock game that my Beagle boy taught himself. The unplanned consequences of teaching track and search!

Frankly, we've painted ourselves into a corner with the current situation. We've encouraged everyone to spay and neuter their dogs. So all the responsible people have done that and don't breed. And all the irresponsible people don't do it - and breed.

Then we wonder why temperaments are getting worse. Hmmmm.... perhaps look at who is breeding the majority of dogs getting sold.

When the public finally realises that 'good' breeders are not The Devil Incarnate but are essential and should be encouraged, educated, supported and mentored, then temperaments might start improving again.

That sounds very similar voice as used on Freckles - only time really he actually 'did' anything was very very occasionally he would decide when out that another dog was getting in his face and would growl under his breath, you couldn't hear it but you felt a slight vibration from his collar and up the lead!  He didn't like the rain and would ask to go out, realise it was raining and dither then cross his legs, I would maybe get a bit sharp 2nd or 3rd time and Just GO, Hurry Up and he would then get the 'thrown out into a winter storm' look and just get off the doorstep - pee - and scuttle back in.

This fitted with taking him and Ziggy (GSD ) to beach, both on fully extended flexi leads - Freckles as far up the shingle as poss and Zig as far into the water as poss and me in the middle!, Zig would come out, shake, and Freckles would be grumbling about 'B---- kids, making me wet' there was only about 4 years between them.

With the Rott and the same voice she would have laughed, possibly waved one or two pads/fingers at you and carried on!

> I suppose that the large powerful breeds are the ones that suffer worst from this

Yes.  Dobermanns, corsos, other mastiffs, bullies.  The "dominant" breeds that you apparently have to be on top of every second or they'll take over.  Never mind that you can establish boundaries and control without the need for physical force.

On the picking up things front; from day one with Pod (malinois, so very much one of those breeds thought to need harsh handling) I have done swaps if he's stolen stuff.  I've built on that , and he will now pick up anything I drop and bring it straight back to my hand; and if he picks anything up generally, I only have to ask him what he's got and he runs to me with it to hand it over.  He'll try to pick up other things too - currently he keeps trying to hand me bags for life full of shopping that I've put on the floor I've never had to wrestle anything off him, we've never had an argument about it.

The only thing he's ever guarded is roast knuckle bones, and that's because Abe tries to steal them from the other dogs so almost as soon as he was here, Pod started guarding them from him.  One time I touched him and he thought I was Abe, so he snapped at me and then continued guarding from me from that point.  He was quite ferocious about it for a 2 month old!  So I just started dropping bits of meat to him when I was walking by when he had a knuckle bone, and when he was relaxed at that, I started to pause and talk to him, still dropping tasty bits.  I've built up from there and he doesn't guard the bones from me any more, at all.  If I were to ask him to hand one over, he would, but I don't do that very often.  Only if he's determinedly crunching away at night and I need to sleep!  And I still swap - I keep some dried sprats in my room just in case.

> On the picking up things front; from day one with Pod (malinois, so very much one of those breeds thought to need harsh handling) I have done swaps if he's stolen stuff.

River will refuse treats if he has something because he’s quite rightly figured out that if I offer treats it’s because I want the crisp packet or whatever nonsense he’s decided is irresistible right now. So I have to be like fine, I don’t want your silly crisp packet anyway and wait for him to inevitably get bored of it.

I think I need to practice more at home with items that are interesting enough to pick up, but boring enough that he thinks my treats are more valuable. (I do use super good treats, honest!)

They are all different. I had 2 weimaraners-one after the other-both bitches. One was super confident and a tad bolshy if you were not firm- not nasty but firm. Other one was a very sensitive dog who needed very gentle soft handling.

Training and trainers for a German Shepherd puppy 5 months old.

Dear all do you have any ideas or information about good training or clubs for German Shepherds in Hampshire or Winchester area?

Please do not recommend any other training facilities for small breeds as they are not suitable for us.

Thank you

You could consider the BAGSD, a single breed club who do basic obedience, working trials, competitive obedience & IPO training for GSDs only. If there isn't a branch need you, contact the secretary who maybe able to help

Thank you Ann we are searching for this and we hope to find some GSD classes outdoor.

We have tried Camberley Surrey and the space is so tiny in a hall for 6 GSDs and I can tell you Klaus is not yet ready to stay within 30 cm or 1 m from another puppy. He is much calmer outdoor with a bit of distance for now and getting closer in a progressive and safe way. Having said that the people and trainer ok but too tight there.

Hope we will find some outdoor classes for now and get back to they when this boy is calmer and not so enthusiastic in meeting greeting others dogs. 08th to 14th weeks socialisation missed due to Brexit regulations

Have you been to West End dog training in Southmpton? They know large breeds there.

Sounds like he is a frustrated greeter. Working at a distance from other dogs where he can cope is what is needed. Have you tried Dog Communication in Surrey, they are very good and have secure paddocks. They will properly assess him and work out an individual plan for him. They do group and 121 classes there

Does he spend time off lead playing a lot with other dogs? If so when on lead and he gets frustrated this is his main aim, so I would be holding back off lead play with other dogs for now. You need to be the most exciting thing, not other dogs which is where a lot of people go wrong. I would be avoiding city parks and the like where he will see lots of off lead dogs and will want to join in and thus creating further frustration.

Working trials & IPO train outside

Thank you Ann.

Klaus won't start anything until he will behave and be calm socially. He would love to but it is impossible without being quiet and not a barking frustrated puppy.

Thank you. Interesting answer. We have a group of 10 or 15 dogs where he can play very nice quiet not barking at all. His recent interaction with others started slowly improving.

Seems like the trainers from this country have a issue. Interested more in profit rather than guiding appropriately.

A behaviourist from dog com sent me an offer of 400 pounds for a zoom meeting which is completely unacceptable in order to use nice words.Her reason was covid regulation which is completely bullshit at this point and time.

We started based on previous owners advice and Germany trainers as much more reliable than others. We found really lovely people and very few on this website who are really kind and sensible even if they are not pro trainers as a profession, who are much more reliable.

I will try westend

Kind regards

As a trainer in this country, you can do a lot with a Zoom meeting. And each and every person has to decide for themselves if they are prepared to meet with other people in person at this time. I will only meet with people outdoors and socially distanced and frankly I don't give a flying f**k if you think that is "completely bullshit", my health comes first. You don't know if people have underlying conditions or live with others who are vulnerable/elderly or have weakened immune systems. How arrogant. You make decisions for your health and allow others the freedom to make choices for theirs.

If you are just going to do nothing other than avoid classes until your dog starts somehow magically behaving all by himself, you might have a long wait coming.

If your dog is frustrated being around other dogs, you need to be learning the skills to help him manage that frustration and seeking help from trainers who understand reactivity and frustration on leash. That is 101 for my own training classes and begun in the very first class (because I can't actually teach if there are barking dogs). If dogs will eat food, they will shut up - you just have to sprinkle enough of it around.

And if he is well socialised I wouldn't be recommending he socialise with a group of 10-15 dogs, since I personally find it is dogs which associate other dogs with fun and play who are unable to work and concentrate on their handlers in the presence of other dogs later. Because they expect to be allowed to play with them, since you have built these expectations by allowing so much play previously.

Anyway. What do I know, I'm just a trainer from this country who is so interested in profit I am giving free behavioural advice on an online forum.

Byeeee.

He needs to focus on you Dan not these other dogs. I wouldn't be allowing him to play with others regardless of how nicely he is doing it, this is what leads to a lot of lead frustration. Dogs don't need this play, it's something which has come about by a lot of pet people. Dogs need their main focus on you the owner, being social around other dogs isn't play its about going oh a dog, yeah so what, have a quick sniff and move on.
Dog comms are having people coming into their centre and most of it is outside. Is the £400 for a zoom and ongoing training? It wouldn't cost that much for 1 zoom call alone.

West End dog training do the kcgc scheme and then they also do high end obedience for those wanting to compete.

I'm not sure classes inside are appropriate for your boy, I would be more inclined to work with a 121 trainer to sort out his frustration issues. With this he can only go offlead in quiet places with long line trailing or a private rented field. I wouldn't be allowing any form of play. You need to engage with him on walks to believe and realise you are more fun than another dog, all this play means he's getting more from other dogs than you which makes focus and training much harder as these other dogs will always be a distraction to him and his desire to see these other dogs currently sounds like they are more fun and self rewarding than being with you. You need to flip that back the other way where he isn't interested in other dogs, sees them and isn't interested.

Thanks another example of "professional" advice.

I might see you soon and treat you via Zoom

Thanks Sue. The zoom online was 399 pounds for 30 minutes from a so called specialist afraid of Covid. What a silly stupid rip off from dog com behaviour.

We will try find more sensible approach and not from idiots online for 30 min

Their price isn't a 1 off for a zoom call. They price up and give ongoing help at their centre. I think you need to get that clarified with them as I know many who have used them. Basically it's a price which covers classes, 121 help in person as well. You keep going whilst you need their help.

I've been in touch with Dog Communication in Redhill. None of their packages are near £400 and none are done on zoom. Not sure you've been in touch with the right training centre here.
Their sessions are all in person at their centre. Needed to put this out there so no one thinks the place is taking liberties on pricing.
http://dogcommunication.co.uk/

This is the centre and you go with your dog in person to train.

Thanks I will email them again

That's  what I have found when I used them . 2 hour assessment in I  the field with their own calm dogs safely around the outside of the field .followed by a comprehensive report amd then u decide what I want to do with training thats on offer
And by a very nice garden centre and coffee shop that allows dogs

IPO & Working trials training is certainly not done for profit, a club my friends ar members of train outside 52 weeks of the year, regardless of weather conditions, unless the police advise against driving, this includes Xmas & New Year, the same as occurs in Germany.

My German friends are start their puppies off focus training from day 1 they have their pup. The IPO training in this country is exactly the same. They often have German fully qualified trainers over & of course, prior to Covid19, attend IPO competitions in Europe. The focus in IPO is the dog & handler bond

This is very nice Ann thanks. How can I find somewhere such place to start training outdoor only in a safe place as I m happy to drive if nothing close?

Many thanks to Chris, Sue and Ann Smith from this site amazing help and constructive feedback.

My Klaus is brilliant. No more barking based on mainly Sue and Chris invaluable advice and due to Ann Smith I found a very good IPO trainer who assessed and passed my puppy for future training with owners and Klaus.

Thank you all and hope to send beautiful pictures soon.

I m shocked how well behaved and meet and greet like a "gentleman" Klaus does in only 4 days.

Wow, I am moving to Scotland

I think it is a shame any dog has to be put on a lead for his walks and run.  Its like putting birds in a cage - they dont belong there !   it comes back to the point that there arn't bad dogs just bad owners who havn't taken time and trouble to train and socialise their dogs properly.   Ive had German Shepherds in my household all my life of 70 years and a Malamute for the past 12 years - Never had to put them on a lead in a park or field or wood (unless it was the rule) and on main roads were the only exception.

Interesting point bucksrocker but we do not live in an ideal world, for dogs or humans. Leaving aside the issue of ownership of the type of dogs that have been responsible for lethal and tragic attacks, many people took on dog ownership during the Covid lockdown and most of these dogs missed out early socialisation and their owners had a distorted perception of how it is to own a dog. Okay if the family were "locked down" in a nice home with a garden but when the owners had to return to work, the demands of dog ownership soon became apparent. As a result there are vast number of poorly socialised dogs in homes in which the owners are struggling to cope with the exercise needs of their dogs, and their behavioural problems.  Also, and certainly not least, many people have a fear of dogs, particularly large breed dogs  and, regardless of whether we consider this reasonable or not, we have to take account that such people confronted by one or more large dogs, off lead, are going to be very unhappy. The world is a much more populated place and we are all struggling to find our own space in it, together with our pets.

We now live on an idyllic cycling/walking trail but 99% of the dogs here are walked on lead. I am okay with that for my dogs. Cyclists go very fast and I would be concerned that my offlead dogs would be at risk. Mobility vehicles using the trail ditto. There are also horse riders to consider. We have a largish garden where my two girls run free. I do not feel they are as "birds in a cage". Thirty years ago my pack ( as we had then) would be running free in a local forest. Mountain bikers, often on high-powered electric bikes, have made it too dangerous to consider such freedom. But I reckon my dogs are happy enough. Which is more than can be said for many humans.

Electrically-propelled vehicles are dangerous anywhere, we have youngsters whizzing about on scooters. A big problem is that they are silent, and the riders have no means nor inclination to give warning of their approach (like non-electric bicycle riders in that respect), and they think “no cycling” notices don’t apply to them.

My old boy is completely deaf now, so off-lead is not an option for him, as he is always nose-down and seeking the next best smell. Off-lead and on a scent there is no way he would recall now. He is also still very fast, and would be off and away in a truce. But he loves people, and (if allowed, which he is not) mugs total strangers for cuddles, so he would rehome himself quickly.

This morning i was passed on the pavement by an elderly gent on an escooter.  He had disabled badges back and front and lights and helmet. Didn't look particularly strong . Would hate to know what would happen if someone got in his way

With dogs if you arnt lucky enough to live in open country local bylaws require dogs to be on leads.  Tbh no matter how well trained my dog is I would still want them on a lead. Never know when something catches their eye and you arnt quite quick enough
Also brooke is now almost totally deaf. Unless we are in a secure field no way could i have her off lead.she would be off doing whatever

I have an issue with the mobility vehicles. Some are the size of quad bikes or even small tractors where we live. They are permitted on pavements and in supermarkets. While I understand the need for mobility aids I do not understand why they have to be so large and driven at such speeds in pedestrian areas. Without wishing to give offence, many of these vehicles are parked outside shops/ cafes while the owners walk in to browse.
Escooters and Ebikes driven at speed along pavements/walking/cycling tracks can be lethal.  Having been runover by one I am now very afraid.

Worryingly, there is no requirement for registration, driving test, or insurance for mobility scooters, e-scooters, or e-bikes. There are restrictions in law as to where e-scooters may be used, but they don’t seem to be enforced.