Hi, just looking for some advice as to how breeders of litters of puppies do or dont commence house training before puppies go to their new homes. Not sure if houstraing is the correct phrase, but, To clarify: is it dangerous for puppies once up on their feet and toddling around (4 weeks ish) for them to follow mum into the garden..obviously weather etc permitting, to start eliminating, copying mum?

Are they likely to be more exposed to the canine viruses by doing this than if mum goes into the garden or out for a walk and brings contamination back to the puppies that way? One would assume that young puppies have some maternal immunity at least. What do you seasoned breeders do or think.?

All my litters have started going outdoors (weather permitting!) from 4 weeks old. By 6 weeks they're spending about half the day outside - being fed out in the garden so that they naturally toilet out there after their meal - and then the back door is usually open so they can go outside as often as they like. They have a weatherproof crate under a gazebo where they can go and sleep if they don't want to come inside. By the time they leave at 8 weeks they're just about housetrained - they take themselves out to toilet and then come back indoors to play. All they need to do in their new home is learn the way to the back door so they can continue their training. Only our own dogs, including the mum, who are going out for their usual walks use the garden.

I don't know how a breeder big a large breed and large litter can keep their puppies indoors when they are 6+ weeks old - they need lots of room and to explore new surroundings etc.  Obviously depending on the weather, I like to get my puppies outside from about 4 weeks - I'm lucky enough to have a covered patio area.  Even if they go out while their indoor accommodation cleaned it makes it so much easier.  They do have maternal antibodies and it's not as though they're being taken to areas where lots of other dogs have been. 

They definitely learn to go to the toilet outside, and it's relatively easy to encourage them into a particular area

Thanks to both Jeangenie and Els-Bells for your reply. Reason I ask is that I bought a lovely, small breed puppy 4 weeks ago. Breeder said she was 10 weeks old, but actually was 12 weeks and had never been allowed into the garden as breeder said far too dangerous. When I viewed by video the puppies were all free in the lounge and the lounge was covered in puppy pads.

I did an actual visit the week before I picked her up and some of the puppy pads had been removed. All the other puppies had gone to their respective homes but the breeder was holding mine as I was going on holiday and picking puppy upnon my way home. Breeder said it would give her that whole week with my puppy to really work on her house training.

When I arrived to pick her up I asked how puppy was doing going out to toilet and thats when I was informed she had never let her out to follow mum and dad because of the danger of infection despite having both vaccs. She said that she is down to only one puppy pad now!

This now leads me on to the struggle I am having to house train. Puppy can hold and hold and I can stay out from morning to night but she wont go. The minute I come back inside, before door is closed she goes on the floor as that is what she has been taught.  I have hard floors so not causing damage. I am at my wits end. Its a bit of a battle of wills particularly with the poos as she waits until I turn away. Rapid poo and she will gobble it up.????. I wonder if mum has still been cleaning up after her and it is learnt behaviour?

I removed all puppy pads but really stuck how to tackle it… She is now 16 weeks old. She will only go either in puppy pen or directly on to the floor. She walks very nicely outside. Wont go on walk. We go out and about with her in the car and she hold it 4/5 hours till we get home. Its draining me. Have tried soaking up pee on a paper puppy pad and placing it outside in the penned off area I have created outside the back door, but she thinks its just a play thing. Banging my head..????????‍????????‍????

The breeder I got my toy breeds from also does not allow her puppies into the garden.  She also said she thought it was too risky as they could "pick up" anything out there that a bird or squirrel had dropped.  She also seemed quite happy to keep clearing up puppy pee and poo the whole time I was there (at least an hour on each of 4 occasions).

Hi Trixie, like others I've put my litters outside from 4 weeks if the weather was favourable. But there's definitely a difference between our Toy breed and large Working breed puppies. The big ones 'get it' much quicker than the littlies. Whereas it's unusual for one of our large breed puppies not to be housetrained by 12 weeks tops, it can take anything up to 6 months for some Toy pups to be reliable. I couldn't believe it when I had my first Toy. I do now! You'll just have to persevere. Your puppy will get there in the end.

I had a Toy breed before this puppy and had no problem toilet training her. She got it quite quickly. This one, I am reverse house training and its an absolute struggle.

I suppose it was cold weather when your puppy was 4 weeks or so Trixie. No reason why she couldn't have had some short spells outside though. From what you write you're doing the right things. My experience with our Toys is that they take longer than our larger breed but they do get there in the end. Hope she won't take too much longer for you.

> Rapid poo and she will gobble it up.????. I wonder if mum has still been cleaning up after her and it is learnt behaviour?

This behaviour is often learned from being scolded when they poo indoors so they hastily remove the evidence. You're doing the right thing by putting a used puppy pad outside in her area; hopefully she'll start to get the idea. Does the breeder have a Facebook group or similar for the new owners? You could ask them if they have any housetraining tips - and the breeder too, of course. Good luck - they can be very stubborn when you want them to unlearn an undesired behaviour.