Just a bit of advice as what to do. Novice dog buyer - but not owner. My 14 year old girl passed away a couple of months ago and my adult daughter is grieving badly..as am I, but have taken the decision to get another puppy as my late girl was my daughters emotional support dog.

Anyway, had an appointment to view a puppy with a breeder of ‘show quality’ puppies. She claims she is also licensed with local council. Her write up regarding how she rears her puppies is 5***.  We arrived at the breeders property yesterday..appears to be a bit of a small holding.

The breeders husband let us in to a parking area which just was a rutted, very wet and muddy area. When we got out of the car he said his wife is busy but we cant go inside as he has ‘German Shepherds on the loose’ so he will bring the puppies out. He then quickly disappeared.

My daughter and I were litterallt gob smacked.  He returned holding 2 tiny 7 week old puppies who were shivering with cold. Yesterday was raining and gale force winds and he thought it okay to stand in freezing cold, in mud to look at these poor puppies. We expected to see the puppies with litter mate and at least mum having some interaction.

We had driven over 2 hours to see these puppies. Told there is 4 to choose from the evening before but then told there is now only these 2 left,  the next morning. We didnt know what to do as he is stood with a puppy in each hand. ( last night she boosted the ad to say, still 4 puppies)

Thinking on my feet and concerned for these pups I opened my boot and asked him to put the pups inside out of the weather, which he did. In order not to be rude we made small talk as we just wanted to leave. He said if you hang on I will get the mother so you can see her. He got the mother..who was litterally skin and bone..I am aware mums lose condition when feeding. He said she is also feeding another litter of pups..not hers, who are 9 weeks old so have put her food back to twice a day from one but have cut back her own pups food to twice a day.

Her 2 pups began frantically feeding in my boot. Whist this was going on he said, hang on, I will get the dad. Brought out a ‘dog’ ..was it the dad? Said he is only 10 minths old. Didnt know he had it in him! But must have got to her.

We said, right, will have a think and left.

Now the breeder is messaging me and I dont know how to respond ‘politely’. It seems that this ‘licensed breeder’ has several liiters of puppies that all ‘special mixed designer breeds’ Dachunds x Mini Poodle is one he mentioned. BUT, having checked her license number and address it is not comming up on the council website.

My dilema is: do I just not respond and walk away and leave well alone OR, do I phone the council tomorrow to check if she is licenced and either way, report my concerns.  Surely this is not right what she is doing ?

do not respond to the greeder. if you utterly must respond make some excuse of 'family emergency' means you can no longer have one.  do not tell them what you think of them as if warned they may clear out all dogs before council can visit.  

  get onto the council asap.   you did exactly the right thing in not buying.  people buying pups out of horror and pity just lines these evil peoples pockets and makes them breed more.

ps reputable breeders do not have multiple litters at the same time.  its not normal, its not good practice. each litter needs breeders undivided attention. puppy farmers have multiple litters . puppy farmers don't let you see where the pups live. puppy farmers do designer crossbreds. 
one of the reasons puppy farmers like doing crossbreds is then there is no KC registration and they will breed the poor bitch every single season with no respite. KC restricts how often a bitch can have pups registered.  ie not every season and has mini/maxi age of bitch allowed

and when you do find a reputable breeder do not under any circumstances let the new pup in the boot of that car until you have utterly disinfected and flea sprayed it.   chances are that poor bitch and pups are crawling with parasites and disease

Oh thank you.

I had a removable, washable liner in the car boot otherwise I would not have put the pups there.

Thank you also for the advice of not alerting the breeder. I am so angry I could not trust myself to respond to her messages anyway.

take some screenshots of all her adverts, council will want that

As above but have you contacted the breed club of your chosen breed? and asked advice for puppy list etc?

Yes, I have done that.

Kazz, Thanks. Didn,t realise..or remember that such clubs exist.

I agree with the others. This is not a caring breeder! Ignore them and report. It's also one reason for why I very much dislike the licensing laws from 2018. Different councils interpret the rules in different ways, and most demand that anyone breeding gets a license. In the past you could tell high volume breeders apart from hobby breeders by the simple fact that they had a license. Yes there were some good licensed breeders but the majority were in it for the money so being a licensed breeder worked as a red flag. Now the puppy farmers and anyone else just wanting to make money get lumped together with the excellent breeders.

A good breeder will ask you a lot of questions, invite you inside (and their puppies will have been born and live inside) and in no way whatsoever push a sale. Fair enough if it's summer and nice weather, then I will often see puppy buyers in the garden as it's nicer for everyone including the pups, but that doesn't mean I'd not let them come inside.

A good breeder will ask you a lot of questions, invite you inside (and their puppies will have been born and live inside) and in no way whatsoever push a sale.
Definitely agree there.  I am only a pet owner (not a breeder or show person) and, over the years I have had 8 of my (toy) breed from 6 different breeders.  ALL have invited me into their home, some offered tea/coffee, and NONE pushed for a sale.  On one occasion many years ago I drove for over 2 hours to see a litter but found I really couldn't "take" to any.  The breeder was so sweet about it and told me I was welcome to a second cup of tea but she didn't want me to take a puppy unless I really wanted it.  I left empty handed.

P.S.  Not sure why the flag shows me as Germany as I'm definitely in England.

The breeder has not asked me one single question, and come to think about it has avoided..or swerved a few of my own.

I have had a lucky escape. Poor puppies but someone will buy them. Looking at the ad and photos of individual puppies, there is no background behind the puppy it has been ‘blued’ out with just the puppy face. It would appear to deflect the surroundings.

Also, I believe it is a breach of regulations for a licenced breeder to allow puppies to leave under 8 weeks of age.

What a horrible situation; the only polite response to the breeder is that "your circumstances have suddenly shanged and you're not is a position to get a puppy any more" and leave it at that. Definitely phone the council to say that the pups are being badly raised and the parent dogs are in poor condition. Take photos/screenshots of all advertisements; they might be needed in future.

Have you contacted the RSPCA? This is possibly the sort of case they might actually do something about. Also contact the breeder's council with your concerns and findings.

The breed club might well have a puppy list of breeders with litters available, and have you looked on the puppy list pages on Champdogs? Good luck in your search.

>I believe it is a breach of regulations for a licenced breeder to allow puppies to leave under 8 weeks of age.

It's against the law for anyone, licenced or not, to home puppies before they're 8 weeks old.

Certainly notify the RSPCA although I don't have much time for them in general.   But it sounds as if they need to be involved.  What a sad experience for you especially having decided to find a puppy after your sad loss.

It reminds me of a visit we made to see a litter of a breed we'd decided to switch to after many years with our first.  When we arrived we were invited in, but the place was full of flies with a crate sitting in the middle ofthe room with a few puppies in it.  I was handed one to hold and frankly it took me a lot to actually handle the poor mite.  The woman breeder was on the phone telling somebody she was something I knew she wasn't (KC Assured Breeder?).  We left as soon as we could.  Further enquiries of somebody senior in the breed, told me they'd been trying to stop these breeders for a long time, without success.

I think you probably had a lucky escape there.   And yes, go through the relevant Breed Club so you should avoid a BYB.

How awful and I agree with advice people have given .they need reporting
As for what to say.  I would go down the line  of thank you I have others to consider and will get back to in due course if we wish to go ahead or thank you for your time but we are now suited elsewhere.  We wish you well.
Short and sweet. If they still bother you block them

Dont know as yet if this person is genuinely a licensed breeder but the council have responded to say they have handed over my complaint and evidence to their Animal Wefare Officer to investigate.

Trixie The breed clubs are normally helpful although I would again say take nothing at face value and  "check and double check" before you go any further.

Breeders who want the best for their pups will question you, and expect you to have questions for them, you may not click with some people you speak to but others you may you may go and as has been said not "take" to a pup but that's life you don't click with everyone do you.

There is Crufts coming up as well with Discover Dogs.

What breed are you looking to get? Someone on here may be able to guide you to a breed club or similar.

Sounds like you had your head screwed on and walked away sure some people will not but you made the RIGHT decision based on what you have said.

> Dont know as yet if this person is genuinely a licensed breeder

I just want to make the point Trixie that all the good breeders I know are NOT licenced. They only breed when they want another youngster themselves, to carry on their line. A good breeder doesn't make much, if any money from a litter, because they've probably spent thousands competing with their bitch and getting all health tests done, then travelling sometimes great distances to the very best stud dog for that girl. All that means that they have no need to be licensed. Breeding should never be a business, it's a spin off from a hobby.

well done walking away from the puppy farmer.

Report to the council and Trading Standards.  The age and that you didn't see the mother with them.  Nothing about this is legal or good.

All that means that they have no need to be licensed. Breeding should never be a business, it's a spin off from a hobby.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, in England the rules are not as simple as the very sensible Scottish ones. Here many councils have forced even one time breeders to get a license. It's a crying shame as it has stopped many responsible breeders from continuing. Who wants to pay around £1000 or more in order to have the occasional litter, and risk being told that you can't keep your oldies as you have too many dogs for your license? Yet that is exactly what is happening. It's turned money grabbers into something believed to be respectable and you can no longer tell who is in it for the money or not. Even other breeders and exhibitors will now say that anyone that hasn't got a license is breaking the law. It's not true, the laws are being misinterpreted by the local councils. It's a nightmare.

> <br />I just want to make the point Trixie that all the good breeders I know are NOT licenced. They only breed when they want another youngster themselves, to carry on their line. A good breeder doesn't make much, if any money from a litter, because they've probably spent thousands competing with their bitch and getting all health tests done, then travelling sometimes great distances to the very best stud dog for that girl. All that means that they have no need to be licensed. Breeding should never be a business, it's a spin off from a hobby.

Absolutely - we were never licenced.   We only ever did a litter for the next generation.