Just lately I've been watching Graeme Hall's Dogs Behaving (Very) Badly programmes, much to my better judgement.   Although he has on occasion been out walking with some of the dogs, very rarely, if ever, does he make any suggestion concerning a 'hyper dog' actually needing MORE EXERCISE.  It really bothers me that his 'training' almost always condems these poor dogs to a life of subservience.  As long as the dog sits quietly in a corner, the dog is a 'good dog'.  Is this right?

High drive"hyper"dogs need brain exercise far more than physical exercise, breeds like Border Collies, GSDs, Working Cockers etc. Physical exercise such as long walks, lots running, free running etc, frequently build up a need for more exercise & it becomes a vicious circle, with the dog needing more & more physical exercise.

So called"hyper"dogs, that TV presenters like Hall deal with, don't need more physical exercise, they need to have a "job"to do. The owners need to train their dogs & shape their natural instincts to utilise their intelligence.

If you have never owned a high drive breed, I doubt that you will realise this without doing research. TV presenters like Hall have no real qualifications(he bought his membership of the guild he's a member of, which is not recognised as a bona fide qualification) don't understand the needs of individual dogs & the correct way to ensure the dogs lead a well rounded life & how to achieve it.

The man just annoys me
Some of his methods are just wrong and he is iritating anyway

He was due to do a talk nearby, but local dog trainers organised a boycott as they disapprove of his methods.
I find him annoying because he makes it look like it only takes five minutes to train a dog.

I know someone who was featured on one of his programmes some time ago.  It was one of the couple's rescue dogs.  A few weeks later I contacted the person to ask how things were now with the dog.  Not as good as would have been hoped/expected.  The programme showed some small amount of progress but the long term result was nothing had really changed.

Does it remind anyone of Jan Fennell she had a series on tv about 20 yrs ago? The same methods for the dogs no matter what the problem was. I knew 2 of the people she supposedly helped. All edited for tv with no improvement seen. Graham Hall reminds me of that series. Does anyone recall watching the episode with a Great Dane who wouldn`t get off the sofa? He stood in front of the dog....hands on hips...direct eye contact while saying "no". The dog was growling at this point. If Joe Public tried this with their dog one can only imagine the outcome. I`ve seen him on Good Morning Britain doing a phone in giving out advice.....and I use the term loosely. All I can say is he must have a good PR  and was in the right place at the right time. Like most people on here I don`t rate him at all and yes he`s very annoying to watch!

Putting aside those who use inappropriate methods or ones that are just wrong.  These programmes give people.the idea that u can train dog in 5 mins or resolve issues just as fast
It doesn't show just how long and what hard work goes into training a dog or for that matter the owner.
I am still getting it working and still learning after goodness knows how mamy years

Mamabas I think majority of dogs don't get enough exercise.   people get lazy and just standing in a park (driven to) and letting dog run riot is not proper exercise. a good structured walk with attention on handler but allowing plenty of sniffs is far more useful.  its a real bonding session then to go patrol out together.

Fennel"Amichien"bonding is a one size fits all & is based on the very flawed Rudolf Schenkel Dominance Study of one on an artificial manmade wild packs in Basel zoo in the 1930s-1940s.

She believes that dogs conform to this theory & need an Alpha leader in human form. So doing things like going through doors, eating etc before dogs shows the dog that the human is the"leader"

Of course natural wild Wolf packs don't have "Alpha"leaders they consist of a breeding pair & their direct offspring from their annual litter. There's no fighting for food or the breeding pair eating first, there's no fighting over breeding rights either. There is a huge gap between Wolves & domesticated dogs in their evolution & whilst dogs retain some instinctive behaviours & needs, tens of thousands of years of selective breeding by humans have changed the behavioural patterns.

Growling is not a precursor to biting, it's a defensive behaviour that shows the dog is under stress & fearful, if ignored the next behaviour is lunging/air snapping, if this is ignored eventually the dog has to resort to biting(one reason Millan is frequently bitten)

None of these TV presenters actually understand domestic dog behaviours & so fail to grasp the underlying cause(s)of the so called"bad behaviour & therefore fail to address problems correctly.

>Growling is not a precursor to biting, it's a defensive behaviour that shows the dog is under stress & fearful, if ignored the next behaviour is lunging/air snapping, if this is ignored eventually the dog has to resort to biting(one reason Millan is frequently bitten)

I always think that a dog which has been 'trained out of' growling is like a smoke alarm without a battery. You don't know that something is wrong until it's too late to avoid it.

> I always think that a dog which has been 'trained out of' growling is like a smoke alarm without a battery. You don't know that something is wrong until it's too late to avoid it.

An excellent analogy.

> <br />If you have never owned a high drive breed.......

Hum    One might suggest the Basset isn't a high drive breed - until you are around one running a good scent!

I'm rather wishing I'd not started this thread and of course I'm aware that there is more to some dog's needs than just having more physical exercise - mental stimulation being equally important.  However the man seems to work round taking the 'fire' out of most of the dogs he works with.  So they end up being seen, but not heard.

He’s known in dog training circles as “the tw#t in the cravat”. He’s very old-school and seems unaware of modern science-based training methods.

I remember there was a huge fuss when he labelled a dog that was clearly uncomfortable as “stubborn” and forced her onto a slippery floor that she quite sensibly didn’t want to walk on.

I really wish more TV show emphasised the WHYS of behaviours rather than just focusing on changing it.

With you there on owners standing in park while dogs run riot. Seems it is just human socialisation time.Am in Eastbourne ATM and am frankly terrified. In one park dogs are allowed off lead which is great as it is a large open space but nevertheless there is a group of  owners that stand chatting while their large dogs just chase each other around. I am not against this per se but it can be scary for other owners and dogs. This evening I took Paddy (BC) to a park which is lovely and dogs are supposed to be on lead. There are signs threatening fines for not obeying this law. Huh. Two women standing chatting while two young labs were running free and in hooligan mode. I was scared because I am three months into total knee replacement and doing great but I know that if one of these dogs runs into me  the new knee will be undone..
I give my dogs as much exercise as I can but have found over life long ownership that the more you give , the more they want and mine are more than happy to accommodate my wish for shorter walks and to sit beside me while I play piano and write. They are okay with this.

Jan its why I have a whippet this time. I am not physically capable of doing the very strenuous walks my previous weimaraners required.  me and little one go for a couple of gentle strolls but they are needed then she has a good blast at full gallop in garden frequently.  even this little dot who doesn't need much exercise is pretty vile to live with if doesn't get what she needs.  All these people on dog training shows who buy athletic dogs who need LOTS of exercise and then don't do it well its clear why their dogs are struggling and displaying unwelcome behaviours. poor things have cabin fever

Sorry but Basset Hounds(even the hunting pack types as opposed to show type)are not high energy high drive dogs, their conformation is built for endurance. Having done clean boot tracklaying for both Bloodhounds, Bassets, plus other tracking hounds they do tune into the track & can be oblivious to anything else, but high drive isn't the same.

The aim of good training is to fulfill the dog's innate working ability, but also to teach an off switch. It's not to shut dogs down or produce robots, my dog's"off"time allows them to chill out, play & just be my beloved companions, who retain their characters

> Sorry but Basset Hounds(even the hunting pack types as opposed to show type)are not high energy high drive dogs, their conformation is built for endurance. Having done clean boot tracklaying for both Bloodhounds, Bassets, plus other tracking hounds they do tune into the track & can be oblivious to anything else, but high drive isn't the sam

Again "I'm rather wishing I'd not started this thread"  -   did I suggest the Basset is a 'high energy' breed?   And I'm not even getting into 'the hunting pack types as opposed to show type'. 

I wish there wasn't a time-out on editing a post on here........  

Just to add do you (KathrynK) think that having been around my much loved breed since 1972, I don't know a thing or two about the breed, even if my direct knowledge of all the other breeds (and mixes) isn't good.

It is an interesting thread to discuss his methods mamabas . So we'll worth starting .seems most are not in favour of him at all

High drive isn't the same as high energy. A good retriever is highly driven to carry objects, but not necessarily at 100mph!! A good hound is highly driven to follow a scent, but again, not always at speed - a SAR dog needs to travel steadily, not at a full gallop.

Well put Jeangenie

Have you owned a SARD ?

Two of mine is/was qualified SARDA dogs, both are high drive & high energy. High energy doesn't mean that the dog is hyper active, SARD need to be high energy to search in the worse of weather & ground conditions. They need to cover ground fairly quickly in order to find the"target"as any delay could be the difference between survival & death. SARD don't ground scent like a tracking dog, of course, they are trained to quarter air scent across the prevailing wind & then into the wind following the scent when it is located.
Unless your experience is different to mine, I believe this is the way the SARD are still trained.

>Have you owned a SARD ?

I haven't, but the litter sister of one of mine was a SARD (now retired through age) who successfully tracked a missing person, through a town, 24 hours after the 'trail' was laid. High speed was impossible because of the conditions, but steadiness and persistence were vital.

So the dog was a Scent Specific Trailing Search Dog, as opposed to an Air Scenting or Drowned Victim Search Dog.

Trailing dogs track via a sample of missing persons scent & ground track.

Air Scenting dogs rarely have a sample of the missing person's scent & have to be both high drive & high energy because of the way they scent.

The Drowned Victim dogs need concentrated focus on the search for the scent & need lower energy as they don't travel physically for obvious reasons, they need to be good "sailors"

I read a book about training Drowned Victim search dogs it was really interesting