Occasionally test our boys urine, which since he was castrated due to a very enlarged prostate (with cysts & enlarged lymph gland in a hind leg) has been fine for almost two years. Then a couple of moths ago, he seemed off colour for a couple of days, tested & protein was again registering in low levels, initially thought/hoped it might be signs of an infection although there were no signs.
Vet wasn't too bothered, but as it continued asked for an analysis which has come back as concentrated, alkaline with struvite crystals, & no signs of bacteria. He's suggested it could be a normal variation, but also the chance of the crystals irritating the bladder or forming stones? My reaction is to see the urologist again, to find out what is going on rather than let it progress.
I've begun to boil his drinking water as we live in a very hard area & adding a few drops of AVC.
Has anyone experience of this & how did you manage it? Can some kibble proteins have an effect, he was on Arden Grange sensitive but recently moved to Millie's Woolfheart Duck.
Many thanks.

My boy has had problems with struvite crystals for the last seven years. He has to have Royal Canin urinary kibble* which dissolves the crystals before they become too problematic.

He has to keep his system on the acid side.

I have tried him with other foods, including raw, but he shows signs of the return of crystals sooner or later, and seems to be more sensitive as he’s getting older. These signs are air humping and/or standing to pee with his leg cocked and a faraway look on his face (not his normal sniffing while he pees). I had another entire male (older, now passed away) who would try to mount this one when crystals were forming.

If you look at microscope images of the crystals you can see what nasty sharp edges they have - my boy humps to try to rid himself of the irritation, if not recognised they can cut and cause bleeding from the genitals (that was one of our earliest clues, we’ve avoided bleeding ever since).

To enable him to flush his urinary system through he has fresh water available 24/7; on walks I allow him to pee as often as he wants, and at home he is let into the garden whenever he asks, which can be every couple of hours.

*there are two types of wet food (pouches and tins) in this formula, but he completely refuses to touch those.

Having lived for 50+ years with a breed with a breed that has a predisposition to forming urate crystals (the opposite of struvite, but the ultimate effect is the same) we have the saying "Dilution is the solution". Crystals (and stones) form in concentrated urine that sits in the bladder for long periods, so by keeping the urine dilute and plentiful so that it's frequently flushed out, we can mitigate the problem. In other words get as much liquid into them as possible - add water to meals as well as adding a splash of milk - or the water from boiling a chicken breast or some white fish) to the drinking bowl once a day, and make sure the dog gets the chance to pee every couple of throughout the day. Also, struvite crystals form in alkaline urine (again, the opposite of urate crystals) so by acidifying the urine (feeding more real meat will help) will limit their development. Hope this helps.

Thank you both. Am encouraging him to drink more as looking back over the last colder months he hasn't been drinking as he did & will also alternate fish stock (chicken tends to upset his stomach) with ACV. Thankfully think I've picked up on this reasonably early, no signs of humping, bleeding, discomfort while urinating or needing to go more frequently. fresh water is always available thought the day & often refreshed. Will add water to his kibble & thinking of adding a wet food such as Butchers.
Always curious as to why issues such as crystals occur, environmental or genetic which is why he'll see the urologist again & already compiling a list of questions. Fairly certain I'll get told to feed one of the urinary kibbles, but interested as to what's in these that prevents/assists cysts forming, as in my naivety must be able to help with out using Hills or Royal Canin?
Many thanks.

Although there is no signs of bleeding, do realise that with urine analysis sticks it can show as protein.

Excellent that you’ve managed to pick it up early.

My lad does get a “topper” (35g) of raw green tripe (the frozen sort is very wet) on his breakfast and dinner, or Butchers tripe mix, or a quarter of a Butchers foil tray (easier when visiting family or friends).

I really felt very upset at giving him the Royal Canin, as he was happily eating a variety of raw. When I read the RC ingredients, well...!! Lots of maize, chicken meal, etc. I can’t identify a particular ingredient which actually dissolves the crystals (when he started on it I thought I had, but the packaging has changed). At any rate, I wasn’t confident to try to blend a mix which would keep his system sufficiently acid and dissolve crystals (luckily it has never got to the stage of gravel or actual stones in his bladder). I think it’s the acidity which is the essential element. From time to time I switch him back to raw for one main meal a day, but after a few weeks I find him humping again and have very quickly to switch him back onto the RC kibble. He’s nearly eleven now, and my feeling is that he is slowly getting more susceptible.

If you can get your boy to let you take regular sample of his urine you can test it yourself with special sticks and monitor his reaction to his diet, and possibly experiment with different foods. My lad is very uncooperative about giving up a sample.

I hope you are luckier, and your boy will be susceptible only briefly and then can return to a normal diet.

Merypaws. Thank you. Urologist app has come through for the 16th, am compiling my long list of questions & hoping that there'll be some answers for the cause other than just treatment. My reaction to Hills & Royal Canin is/was the same as yours, only used it once post op & it looked like a white lump of congealed rice & potato!

Don't have any problems getting a sample, leant the trick years ago with Bassets to use a stainless steel soup ladle - no more crawling around! We do have urine sticks, not Multisitk as used by our previous vet, a less expensive brand (as advised) which has given the same results (previously using them daily for 5/6 months!), told by the urologist that they weren't designed for dogs LOL, but responded was looking to see a presence rather than an exact reading. Is there a brand that you'd recommend?

Did look at Butchers yesterday but as previously had problems with chicken even the plain tripe contains it, so got frozen. Oh I'd forgotten the smell!

Hope I have caught it early, the poor boy has been through so much. Thank you again.

Jeangenie. I do remember probably from a past post you mentioning your breed had a predisposition to urate crystals, is it thought to be genetic or environmental? Would you have any idea what the ingredients are in urinary kibble that assist, perhaps different for urate  & struvite (sorry misspelling in original post) crystals?
Thank you.

F.F (Chris) Thank you, should have thought of Dr Becker.

Hi Lacy, wishing you all the best for the urologist appointment.

The test sticks I use are Siemens Multistix 10 SG, chosen for no other reason than that they are the ones the vet used, so a) should give relatable readings, and b) since we may not see the same vet at every visit, it avoids an unfamiliar vet rejecting my results because I used the “wrong” item. The main thing I look for now is the pH level.

How lovely to have a co-operative dog! Mine tends either to kick my collection tool (including ladle!) or put his paw in it as he uncocks. I get best results - but not infallible - with a rectangular metal tray from a prepared or ready meal. I keep an old (sterilized!) Metacam syringe for transferring the sample from collection dish to sample pot.

You may need to discuss diet with the urologist, as both the Royal Canin and the Hills urinary food both contain chicken.

> I get best results - but not infallible - with a rectangular metal tray from a prepared or ready meal. I keep an old (sterilized!) Metacam syringe for transferring the sample from collection dish to sample pot.

I had a metal tray from a prepared meal until my vet here gave me a plastic collection dish with a sample pot attached to use with Teazel (except that pot had to be handed in so I use our sample pots which don't fit as well, but act as a handle).  Transferring the collection using a Metacam syringe - great idea!

>Jeangenie ... is it thought to be genetic or environmental?

In Dalmatians the predisposition to urate crystals is genetic, and the condition is managed by a low-purine (not low protein per se!) diet. Urate crystals thrive in acid urine. Struvite crystals, however, thrive in alkaline urine, and are known as 'infection stones' because where there is a UTI there are usually struvite crystals and stones. Once the infection has been treated with the correct antibiotic the crystals can be dissolved by making the utine more acidic - adding higher-purine meats to the food can be enough to do this but vets will often tell you that a prescription diet (curiously usually with a high plant content, which is generally low purine!) will be needed.

Thank you all for your earlier comments & advice.

Tests have been going on for weeks, struvite crystals are in very very low numbers & after further investigations including scan & cystoncentesis, dilute urine is the major problem. What a roller coaster from my initial testing back in early December & thinking something was not quite right, U.T.I, crystals, kidney disease/failure .Addison's, Cushing's & some I've probably forgotten have all come back clear.

Today his urologist is visiting the Island & discussing with our vet (who works along side him) how to move forward, with a diagnosis of diabetes Insipidus. Thankfully treatable, for some one who hates needles dreading the treatment options - but Oscar gets to fight on & his owner will just have to man up!