Hi every one
Please please help
I sold a pup on payment plan, there is no problem with the payments,
I sold the pup on the condition that the pup was returned to me on her first season, due to the fact she has another one of my dogs, which is the pups uncle (intacked)
All of which is in a contract and signed,
It also states that any problem what so ever with the pup then it is to be returned to me,
The is is no where near paid for yet, I have asked for the pup back and she is refusing..
Please help!!! Any advise is appreciated

Sorry if I have missed something but why are u asking for the pup back ? Is this to be permanent or temporary?

the pup in question was to be returned to me when her season starts, to save any problems, as the buyer has one of my other dogs, whom is the pups uncle..
contracts states if for any reason the breeder asks for the pup to be returned then she is to be returned asap, it is a bit of a long story, the pup is not paid for yet, the pup has no where to go and do it’s business, there is a few other things which I am not willing to put on forum, I have asked the buyer on numerous occasions to return the pup, and she has refused.

Sorry permanent

I'm reading this as two different issues?

1. The pup to be returned during season to prevent accidental mating?

2. The pup to be returned because you're not sure it's being looked after properly?

Are you hoping they give you the pup back during her season but secretly you're going to keep her?

Hi originally the pup was to be returned during season, as you say no accidental mating, since the pup has been with the owner, she has gained an injured leg, she does not go out to the toilet, she has to do her business on a Matt, she has no socialising with humans or other dogs, the owner sleeps all day and awake all night.. the pup is not paid for yet, and I have said I will return the small amount she has paid, as for the other dog, which is also one of mine, I am not sure what I can do to help him..
I am just lost and need to get my pup out of this situation

I'm not sure there is anything you could legally do I'm afraid.

Dogs get injured and the owners sleeping pattern shouldn't make any difference to animal welfare but if you have genuine concerns over the 2 dogs welfare then I'd contact RSPCA or similar but be warned if they intervene you are unlikely to get dogs back.

It's a true saying that you catch more flies with honey, why not try and stay on good terms with the owner and offer to help with socialising? Have they had a change in circumstances/illness (mental or physical)? Presumably you thought they were a good owner for the older dog, what changed?

The owner has a few problems,
I have told her she will receive the amount she has paid for the dog so far, she still has a lot more to pay, the contract states that the dog belongs to me until the dog is paid for in full..

I see from the flag u may not be in the uk . Of u are then I would speak to Trevor Cooper of dog law and find out if u habe any rights. As chamsung says its quite hard in this country once a dog has been sold and I don't know if the contract would be considered something that has to be up held

> the contract states that the dog belongs to me until the dog is paid for in full..

You'd have to seek legal advice then, but as you've said she hasn't missed a payment you might not win. I can understand you're concerned for the pup, but you also have to understand that the new owner will already love the pup, you agreed to a payment plan they've stuck to it and they won't want to give up a dog they love.

It's every breeders nightmare that a pup ends up in a less than ideal home, all you can do is vet home thoroughly but still circumstances change. Personally I'd try and stay friendly with new owner and if they live close enough maybe try planning a weekly/ twice weekly walk as a means to offer advice.

Hi
Yes I am in the uk,
Do you know how I get to talk to Trevor ?

What is the point of a contract with a buyer?
The pup is due to be in season, which she is suppose to come back to me during this time..

> What is the point of a contract with a buyer?

To be honest there's not much point. It makes the breeder feel better, and hopefully new owners follow it thinking it carries more legal weight than it actually does.

Gosh, if sleeping all day means the breeder can take the pup back, I’d be in serious trouble.

I have a chronic illness and my sleep pattern is easily disturbed, and fatigue means I often sleep longer than is ideal. But my animals are all well cared for.

If there was an illness involved I would not have made the comment on her sleeping all day, she sleeps all day due to the fact she is drinks all night, gets up around 4 in the afternoon.. no garden for the dogs, just a puppy pad…

I sold a pup on payment plan, there is no problem with the payments,

This is your problem. If the person has kept up with the payments then you have no legal right to take the pup back. Doesn't matter what the contract says. I managed to get a dog back once but that owner had stopped paying so I gave her the option of paying in full within 14 days or return the dog. She had paid nothing for several months and neither explained nor apologised. Had she refused I would have had to take her to small claims court but thankfully she handed the dog over.

https://doglaw.co.uk/

Did she have a garden when you sold her a second puppy?

> Did she have a garden when you sold her a second puppy?

Relevant!!

Its beginning to sound like  apart from speaking to a solicitor , see link above , you may have to get the rspca involved if the pups welfare is being compromised. Also what about the other dog ? isnt there welfare issues there if you feel the pup isnt being properly looked after ?

Unfortunately dogs have the same legal status as any other property, welfare being the acception.

This means that she as the buyer is protected by Statutory rights, in the UK you cannot sign away your statutory rights, so any part of a contract not inline with them is null and void, I'm afraid.

As gross as toileting inside is, if it's been cleaned up then it's not enough for the RSPCA to get involved or breach any welfare clause in your contract.

As for the injury to the leg unless you can prove she's not providing vet care or inflicted those injuries this will be difficult.

You case will be her breaking the welfare clause of your contract with her. Unfortunately the court will only consider what the law says, not your personal views on welfare, unfortunately the law is rock bottom here.

Unless you can prove she broke the law on animal welfare, then sadly you're unlikely to get this puppy back. You could also end up paying her legal costs as well as your own if you lose.

It might be cheaper and easier in the long run to offer whatever she wants to buy the dogs back. If she's hard up then a couple of grand might sway her and get the older boy out as well.

Yes absolutely, I am going trying to see what I can do regarding the other dog, the pup is only 6 months old, not paid for yet, so more chance of getting her out first. I hand reared the pup from birth, and she left me at 14 weeks, so she has not long been with the buyer, and when she first had a dog off me she was in a house with garden and there was no issues..

She has not paid for the pup in full yet,  is it not a welfare concern if she breeds the her dog with the bitch? as they are uncle and niece? I have an endorsement on the bitch also..
but from what every one is saying, she has more rights even tho she has not paid for the dog in full yet..

No she did not, but at the time of collection, the buyer swore to me that she would take the pup and the older boy out to do its business, and also walk them for an hr a day, none of which is happening

Unfortunately, yes as it stands at the moment she has more legal rights to the dog than you, possession is 9/10 of the law as the saying goes and the dog are in her possession.

Again As I've mentioned the courts will throw out any welfare issues that doesn't violate the law. Yes we don't like how she's treating those dogs but as long as she meets the basic requirements in law, no court will rule in your favour. No court will rule in your favour based on 'if' the dogs breed, even if she flat out stated she was going to breed them together, it's not illegal to do so sadly.

Many breeders have placed dogs on no breeding contracts only for them to do so anyway. And found out that they'd no recourse.

She has a legal right of 'peaceful enjoyment of property' which means no contract can break this. She has a legal right to do anything that is legal with the dogs sadly.

As for not being paid for in full, until she she breaks the agreement to pay X amount by Y date then you have no recourse here either. This part is likely to be the only part of your contract that is enforceable. And it will protect both parties not just you

As for 'have to give back when you the breeder asks'  again unfortunately most likely null and void.

You can try to take her to small claims for a property return order but I don't see you winning, not unless she's broken the welfare act or she stops paying the installments. If you don't win then you have 2 hefty legal bills to pay.

I'd offer to buy back the dogs, it'll be cheaper and easier in the long run. I feel for you I really do.

I have offered to buy back the dogs, as their welfare is my concern..
thank you so much for your advice …

> is it not a welfare concern if she breeds the her dog with the bitch? as they are uncle and niece?

Uncle/niece is a mating often done in the dog world to 'fix' type, it's not against any rules, though it should only be done by people who really know their lines and what they could be solidifying.

As for walking the pup for an hour a day, from 14 weeks to 6 months old? Would you want her to? I tend to stick to the 5 minutes exercise per month of life rule, so I'd be giving a 6 month old up 30mins maximum of formal exercise. Is this a large or heavy breed? If so she'd need to be even more careful with growing bones.

We'll keep our fingers crossed she sells them back to you, if not as I've mentioned before I would try being friendly with her and helping out with exercise/socialisation.

Fingers crossed she will sell them back to you. Sadly if she's drinking all night, every night like you claim then she's probably struggling with an addiction. Addicts usually end up selling any of value to fund their addiction. If she refuses she might ended up lapsing on her instalments in future giving you want you need for a court order return.

Fingers crossed she will just sell them back to you now and save the stress for everyone.

Sadly the laws haven't caught up with animals being sentient. Sadly it's not enough for a contract to be broken you have to have 'damages' from it being broken to take legal action on.

Everything crossed for you. Keep us updated.