https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/dog-owners-could-be-brought-to-heel-instead-of-their-pets-to-prevent-attacks/ar-AARH7Ze?ocid=winp1taskbar

I have always been for blaming the Deed, not the Breed but ..................?   Again the cynic in me re income for the Government (Licences)

This is what I have been supporting for years, it is too easy to obtain a dog & then not bother to train him/her. My ideal would be compulsory attendance at training classes with FFT(Force free trainers).

The dog warden where I live unfortunately runs Ceasar Millan/Dogs Behaving(very)Badly type classes, their personal dogs wear chokers/ pinch collars & force & compulsion is used at all levels from puppies to adults. Rewards based training is sledged off at every opportunity.

As for the breeds involved, Joe Public don't believe that Labrador are the worse breed for biting & have been for decades

NEW(to dogs) owners need to pass at least an online test before being allowed to afopt/purchase a dog & then compulsory FF training classes with a test of the training at the end similar to the KCGC bronze etc.

The problem is obedience type training is and can be very different to training out in the ‘real’ world. I’ve seen dogs behave so nicely in classes but once out in the open the dog is bonkers and the owners seem to either allow it, or not know what to do.
For joe public training your dog and going out for the purpose of training your dog isn’t normal, they want to go to classes and do some training and then expect their dog to then be the same when out off the lead in the park, for example.

I like this idea, in theory, but the rate of ‘trainers’ are going up especially trainers using methods of force/tools.

I hadn’t realised the labrador are the worst breed for bites, although I can’t say it would surprise me considering how many litters there are each year, you’re bound to get more the more popular a breed is. And how many bad breeders there are that breed them.

What worries me is the amount of ‘bullies’ being bred already and the dramatic and sudden increase of these types of dogs, the mal is also becoming more and more popular. You may well take them to classes but unless you can enforce FF training (which I’d highly doubt) then I certainly wouldn’t feel safe seeing any of these dogs come our way, just like I don’t currently when I see a ‘bully’ or cane corso drag its owner to where it wants to go. (Just to clarify this is since a cane corso nearly killed one of my own dogs last year, out of the blue with no incident occurring beforehand for this dog to act in the way it did)

A lot of the protective highly intelligent dogs are now becoming fashionable for the trainers (mals), which are the same as you describe Ann, and boast about them and then breed from them and sell them on to people that can’t control them and go back to the breeder that trains them with force.

Labrador have been the top breed for biting since the first research was done, back in the early 1960s, when the Met Police shot dead 3 GSDs who allegedly savaged a 4 year old boy in the compound they were kept in. The boy was with his older brother & their friends who broke into the outer yard, then climbed into the Kennels in the dogs compound which had several string of barbed wire at the top, the boys used wooden boxes to get on to the top of the kennels, over the barbed wire on the kennels & then threw stones, metal & pieces of wood at the dogs. The 4 year old got caught up the barbed wire & was covered in cuts because of this, when the boys got home, they made up the story of the dogs dragging him into the compound & biting him. The Met Police sent in 4 armed police officers to shoot these dogs, which they did, it only took 30-40 rifle rounds to kill the dogs(today the firearms officers have to account for all rounds fired)

However when the child attended the A&E at St George's, the doctors found the cuts were not bite marks, especially as they found rust in some of the cuts.

When the Police Complaints investigated, the truth was revealed. The Met then tried to justify killing the dogs by doing research into the number of dog bites reported to the NHS to prove GSDs were a high risk for biting. This backfired as the breed most involved with bites was the Labrador, which was responsible for twice the number of bites as the 2nd breed, the Jack Russell, closely followed by other terriers, Cocker Spaniels & mongrels. GSDs, Rotties & Dobes were amougst the least involved breeds. The study was archived & hidden away. The owner of the GSDs complaint was upheld, but the Police still shoot allegedly aggressive dogs with multiple shots, despite the officers involved allegedly being top marksmen.

Unfortunately the Malinois has become the GSD of the 21st century, lovely dogs poorly bred in the wrong hands

There are far more FFTs that you would think, few are Obedience trainers, there is a debate ongoing in the Obedience world about the demise of the Obedience clubs as opposed to pet dog training. Competitive Obedience is now done by private trainers in very small groups. Trainers like Mary Ray, Di Martin, Kathy Russell, Pat & Herbie Watson who regularly win at the highest level in Obedience are the type of private trainers who teach Obedience.

They're not going to do Jack with this report. There's been multiple reports on the DDA over the years and even a public consultation and all have come back with the same conclusions and recommendations. All have been completed ignored by Defra. Expect expanding the DDA to cover private property, Defra has done nothing with with the same information from the same interest groups before.

I'm afraid the police and government like the current model as it's far easier to prove a dog fits certain measurements than actually target irresponsible owners and breeders. About 80% of dogs delt with under the DDA are under s1 with 93% of those (according to police themselves) having no history of aggression. Some cross breeds have also fallen fowl even with some litter mates found not type and those with the same parents found type and destroyed. Which disproves S1 focus on genetics as siblings with the same parents have different fates based on a tape measure. It's simply far easier to pretend to do something and big up 'dangerous dogs' statistics than actually deal with it.

S3 not much better. A judge may order a male that's attacked be neutered, not must to remove his genes. No power to order a bitch that's attacked someone to be spayed. So you can legally breed a male and female that have attacked a person and then sell those puppies from 2 aggressive parents. Personally if it's attacked male or female one of the requirements to keep it should be compulsory spaying/neutering.

The DDA was so badly written it didn't even exempt provoked aggression. You're dog biting your mugger could have you fall fowl. Now it's extended to private property it's even worse. Your dog bites a burglar in the garden before breaking in, you're in trouble. Bite the same burglar after breaking into the house you're fine. Trespassers in your fenced garden have more rights than you and your dog.

They didn't even have common sense enough to only cover people that where permitted onto private property, don't think they'll be smart enough to actually make a common sense law.

>The problem is obedience type training is and can be very different to training out in the ‘real’ world. I’ve seen dogs behave so nicely in classes but once out in the open the dog is bonkers and the owners seem to either allow it, or not know what to do.

1000% yes. I just don't get it. I'm a trainer and here's a classic example from last week - I spend a good amount of time explaining how to train no jumping up. How owners shouldn't let members of the public 'say hello' to their leaping dog because it's just reinforcing the leaping and interest in people. We all practise no jumping up as a class, with extra people approaching dogs on leads and stopping far enough away to not get jumped on, whilst owners sprinkle treats on the floor to distract and redirect the dog.

Class ends and I tell everyone I'll see them next week. As I'm packing up, the 'spare' person from one couple stops to 'say hello' to an enthusiastically leaping everywhere golden retriever who proceeds to jump all over them whilst they talk to the handler.

Or we are practising heelwork and everyone makes loads of improvement and then I end the class... and everyone is getting towed out the door by their dogs. (And in again, at the next class.)

ARRRRGGGGGG

I am about to try to run some 'in real life' classes out in different public settings to try to combat this. Everyone will already know how to do stuff from earlier classes, it will be about teaching people to uphold it out and about. We'll see if that helps...

No point doing classes online as anyone can give the right answers with Google if needed.

In person classes are great if the owners actually put the effort into their pups, it's evident in the many classes I've attended who does not work on things outside the class, they never improve. Some assume and only want an 8 week course for their puppies and then stop, this is when pups are doing well, it's later in puppyhood and the teen stage when things get harder and classes or 121 are much more needed.

I make it mandatory that pups I've bred are trained in classes however I'm seeing many stop after the 1st 8 weeks or so and then some ask for advice, me what has you trainer advised as they will see it in person and be easier to advise rather than me guessing what the dog is actually doing from a description.. oh we aren't going any more for whatever reason.. gets my back right up that does.

I didn't write classes online it would be a test online of the knowledge of dogs, behaviours etc, easy to stop people googling answers by time limiting the responses plus limiting the number of attempts

I meant the test online.. in person makes them get out there and actually do it and you can actually see different body languages and work on discussions. Discuss why a dog running up to another dog onlead is a bad idea.
Body language when a dog is not happy, kids and their behaviours around dogs. A whole day's course. Then an exam at the end of it.

Online test first a bit like the driving test theory test, then the face to face seminar plus test at end, like the judging seminars of the KC

Yeah sounds more like it. Perhaps anyone buying a dog needs to do this as plenty of idiot owners out there now

I ran classes and 1st was in village hall with summer use of fenced multi-sport, 2nd was in large wooden 'hut' when I got permission to stock-fence a grass area outside.
Had dogs that did perfect recall or retreive inside but outside - Ooh there's a bird ... look, a butterfly ... a helicopter ... a daisy and a dandylion ... a person and/or strange dog outside the fence
etc, etc  
Answer to owner ... train EVERYWHERE !

Interesting post on the local village media from someone who is not keen on dogs. There is currently horses on a keep field belonging to the village hall and he is putting a sign up to say dogs to be kept on lead. Fair enough (he’s not the horses owner by the way). Then a further post saying a lady had her foot trodden on by one on the horses when crossing the field with her dog on the lead and he reiterated about dogs being under control. The dog had been under control
I puzzled over this, then a further post from someone else to say that the lady had been ambushed by the horse coming up behind her and knocking her over which shook her up, not had her foot trodden on. Thankfully no injuries, as said the dog was under control.
Not sure why I’m writing all this but it seems to be quite easy to be condemned by someone who is anti dog.

Agreed, doesn't sound like the dog owners fault at all but on the other hand unless I knew the horses I wouldn't be walking in a field with them, especially not with a dog. We have the right to roam pretty much anywhere up here so it's easy to choose an alternative empty field, I appreciate that might not be so easy in England where you need a right of way. Horses can be really naughty, and they're big, strong animals. Chances are this horse was just nudging her back to let her know it was there - probably looking for food but if you were frail or not expecting it it could knock you over easily.  The fact she had a dog was neither here nor there I suspect.

I won’t walk in fields with horses or cattle’s especially heifers and dairy cows not used to dogs. Know the cattle round the village and the ones I could trust, normally the bullocks or the dog savvy ones that prefer to keep their distance from dogs. Horses can be unpredictable I find, I used to ride a lot when younger and fairly confident with them, but there’s always seem to be that little something that makes them more likely to suddenly do something unexpected.

That’s a great idea using a fenced outdoor area.

I did a recall workshop recently with River in a training field - we started with lots of fun games then had them recalling a fair distance with increasing distractions.

Riv’s biggest distraction is other dogs, so honestly the fact that he was able to work so well with other dogs around was really great.

fenced outdoor area.
The one by the village hall worked better as there were kids on bikes and more people about. The dogs thought 'Oh off to the wild blue yonder' but owner knew it was only to the fence so they were less of a panic and more relaxed when said dog totally ignored them !