I'm just pondering the increase in reactive dogs these days and wondering why. If I think back 30/40 years ago, we walked all our dogs off lead, arguments were few and far between and I don't remember anyone shouting at us to 'get your dog on a lead'.

Now it seems that on every walk there will be someone stringing up a baying dog, hiding in the undergrowth and shouting at everyone else to stay away. Or walking along with their dog on lead, in popular off lead parks but because they've tied a yellow ribbon to the lead everyone else in the park has to leash up their dogs.

I've owned a dog aggressive dog in the past, Mr Beastly the borzoi who died about 10 years ago. He attacked a dog when he was a teenager, and was muzzled and walked at antisocial times and in out of the way places for the rest of his life. I had a bitch just out of season and he was a teenager with raging hormones, but no excuses, I made sure it didn't happen again. I wouldn't have dreamed of taking him down the country park and making everyone else put their sociable, friendly dogs on lead.

I worry that by insisting that dogs are no longer allowed to greet strange dogs off lead we are making more and more reactive dogs, and of course the increase in popularity of breeds that are known to be intolerant of other dogs probably leads to negative experiences which create reactive dogs?

My own dogs are really well socialised, I run a racing club and also organise lots of breed social events, so any pup I get is off lead from the start playing with lots of strange dogs, being told off by the older dogs in the group and they learn excellent manners. As a result I can walk anywhere with them off lead and they generally don't even look at strange dogs, they will tolerate any dog that goes up to say hello and although the old girl will tell bouncy puppies off she's never done more than air snap.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could go back to the way things were, baby puppies learning from other dogs what is and is not acceptable? Is that possible now with the increase in reactive or downright aggressive dogs? Are we going to get to the stage where no dogs are allowed off lead ever, where we all have to hire runfree fields?

I agree that dogs should be able to be walk off lead if they are friendly and reasonably responsive to their owner's commands (recall).  However where I live there is nowhere that dogs are officially allowed off lead.  I once suggested we had a separate area somewhere for dogs and was laughed at.  This doesn't stop me walking my (toy breed) dog off lead but I do make sure she doesn't approach a dog who is on a lead as this tends to make them reactive - or over-friendly so they are towing an inexperienced owner.  I also make sure my own girl sticks to the footpaths and doesn't run amok over the farmer's crops.  It's sad that people think dogs should not be allowed to socialise other than on a lead (this has been rammed down our throats here but one person who hold lots of useless certificates for dog behaviour and dog training but in reality actually has limited ability.  Sadly all the pet people think she's God).

>walking along with their dog on lead, in popular off lead parks but because they've tied a yellow ribbon to the lead everyone else in the park has to leash up their dogs.

They've got as much right to exercise their dog there, as you have. And dogs should not approach dogs which are on lead. So if you can't call your dog back and prevent them from reaching on leash dogs, your own dogs shouldn't be off lead. It's not the fault of the person with the dog on lead.

>I worry that by insisting that dogs are no longer allowed to greet strange dogs off lead we are making more and more reactive dogs, and of course the increase in popularity of breeds that are known to be intolerant of other dogs probably leads to negative experiences which create reactive dogs?

When you let your dog meet another dog, you are taking a risk with that other dog. Yes, the dog may be completely fine. But equally the dog may be reactive or fearful or really just outright aggressive. Many people let their dogs off leash when they really shouldn't - when they are reactive or unpredictable around other dogs. Personally, I don't want to play Russian roulette by allowing my dog to meet every strange dog we come across and assuming that the other person has made the right call in allowing the meeting to go ahead, because most people are stupid frankly.

>Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could go back to the way things were, baby puppies learning from other dogs what is and is not acceptable?

I don't know what halcyon days these are, but when I grew up dogs were kept chained in yards - one of them bit my brother when he walked past. They guarded property but were not kept within the confines of it, so you got attacked if you walked past a house. They ran amok and mated because no one neutered and then raised pups which were drowned (by my uncle) at birth. Thanks but no thanks...

As someone who runs a puppy playgroup, I can for sure say that genetics has a lot to answer for. There are totally bomb proof dogs with excellent playskills which they really haven't learnt, because they haven't had great starts - but they just seem to be naturals - and then there are spooky and fearful dogs who have had all the opportunities and great upbringings possible. If we're looking for answers, it has to be in the temperaments of the dogs we're breeding.

The problem is simply over-population. We have too many dogs, causing too many encounters between them... it's pure statistics. It's only going to get worse. In 100 years or so, who can own or breed dogs will be hugely restricted and dogs will need to be on leash almost everywhere.

I so agree up to 12 years ago I walked 5 Elkhounds exactly as you say.

Rarely a cross word.

This all stopped around 12 years ago sadly, for the reasons you mention.

My breed tend to range, and can be selectively deaf at times,but perfectly sociable and good canine social skills.

Fear of the potential use of the DDA has meant no off lead walks since.

So only the oldest of my oldies has ever run off lead away from home, or a fenced garden.

That's such a shame Barbara, not all breeds have collie like instant obedience, but as long as they have doggy manners and a recall (even if it's slow) they should be allowed to be off lead in the park, those whose dogs cannot be trusted with other dogs should be the ones to walk on lead on pavements etc instead of ruining it for everyone.

When I think back many years when I was a kid, people weren't taking their dogs to the park or if they did it wasn't heaving with all and sundry. Many dogs were working dogs and were rarely off their land. We've had a massive boom in city living dogs, overseas rescue, rescues in general are on the up. Back in the day before the Internet people obtained their dogs from the Friday ad (the paper) or by word of mouth for a good breeder. We didn't have this massive market and people breeding for money as they are now. Yes we had puppy farms but not at the levels we have now. It's become a supply and demand. Many good breeders were probably a lot tougher on who they sold puppies to, city living was probably a no no for a lot of breeders.
We didn't have all the recognised breeds then as we do now. Pet passport scheme has assisted in this.

Dogs in general back then were walked in the countryside and it would have been much quieter then in terms of number of dogs being walked all over.

Space has become limited.
Were dogs back then pts if they showed dog aggression especially if they ended up in rescue? Behavioural issues were they addressed or simply pts?

So many questions and no clear answers.

> However where I live there is nowhere that dogs are officially allowed off lead.

Gosh that's a shame. I'm lucky to live in Scotland where the right to roam allows you to walk dogs pretty much anywhere, it is quite rare for there to be specific dog restrictions, really only on one beach that I know and that's only during summer. Apart from at the side of a road or near farm animals dogs can be off lead everywhere, or in theory that's the case, now the yellow ribbon brigade are slowly taking over every park and shouting to everyone to leash their dogs

CHAUMSONG,
Sorry about the caps lol
I've been looking for land to rent to walk my dogs just for me, not a field for hire to all.
My family have land and I tried again yesterday to loan me a min of 4 acres. This pandemic has shown me how many dogs are living in unsuitable homes, the pandemic puppies who aren't given the outlet they need nor the training and they have zero manners andante aren't learning from older dogs or being told off by these older dogs, they keep going back. That is not fair on any adult dog so I expect the owner to step in to stop it. No one wants to see a puppy bitten because it's become way too ott and pushy.
I want to walk my dogs in peace and not have other dogs charging up to us, what I'm experiencing is dogs are charging over to have a pop at mine which are minding their own business and on lead. I don't expect mine to stand there and take that but the lack of control these owners have on their dogs is not acceptable in my eyes.
We seem to have this notion that all dogs should get on and play. No I expect all dogs to be social to a certain degree but not to seek out other unknown dogs to play. It's like oh look there is another dog, so what I'm not interested. Or we pass and a quick sniff and move on at most.

We back in the day expect and want our dogs to hang out with other dogs in the park to just play whilst owners stood and around and chatted.
That could be another consideration in this.

I will no longer visit parks- haven't for years now.  just too many aggressive dogs. and pretty much every week I hear of yet another attack there.

I do let River have off lead time in the park, but I put him back on if I see another dog on lead. I know it’s super annoying if you have a reactive dog, or if you’re training or whatever, and my tiny overfriendly little Pap comes running up.

I mean he absolutely adores other dogs and would love to be friends with everyone, but I do worry because it would be easy for another dog to hurt him very badly.

I do try to be considerate of other people and their dogs, but I think people with reactive dogs sometimes need to be more responsible too. Last year we were playing ball with River at dusk, with a flashing light-up ball. He had an LED collar on. There was plenty of space for anyone else to walk by without coming near us, but a lady with a black dog chose to walk silently along the hedge. The first we knew about her was when Riv ran over to them and she shouted that we should have him on a lead.

I mean she must have known we were there, with the flashy stuff and calling him and such, but she chose to walk close by and gave us no indication that she was even there, never mind that she wanted us to put Riv on lead. If she had I’d have grumbled a bit because there was no need to interrupt his game like that, but I’d have done it.

In a similar vein I once had a family scream at me to “get it away” when Riv approached, because one of the kids was apparently terrified of dogs. I suggested that a park full of off-lead dogs was not the best place for them to walk! Riv played with a little cockerpoo puppy later and apparently her and her owners had met the same family and they’d said the pup was aggressive and should be put down. She’d done nothing, and she was a sweet little dog, played beautifully with River and said hello to me very nicely too. Perhaps because I didn’t scream at her to “get away”.

> I expect all dogs to be social to a certain degree but not to seek out other unknown dogs to play. It's like oh look there is another dog, so what I'm not interested. Or we pass and a quick sniff and move on at most.

Yes absolutely, that's what mine do, they'd rather avoid unknown dogs but they can cope if a strange dog races up to them, they tend to hide behind me, and it's my job to protect them.

When I was at school my Mum would take our lot down the country park at the same time every day, she met the same people all dogs off lead and getting along. We always had a big pack of collies and a shepherd, if we weren't away at obedience shows I'd join her down the park at weekends, and I've kept that up. I see the same people most days that like me have walked there for decades, we've all lost many wonderful dogs and brought many pups up.

Now though of course there are zillions of other people down the park, I'd say 90% of their dogs are ok, just wandering past like ours, but the other 10% are an absolute pain in the neck, either jumping all over people and dogs, stalking them, snapping or the ones on lead demanding everyone else has to be on lead. They're still the minority but ruining walks for the majority.

> I will no longer visit parks- haven't for years now.  just too many aggressive dogs. and pretty much every week I hear of yet another attack there.

This is such a shame, I say we reclaim the parks for the sociable dogs

As a child in the 1970's in busy South London (Clapham) all dogs were road walked to the park.

I knew them all, the Airdale at the corner shop owned by dog loving Asians when the old English chap sold up.

The old ladies Sznauzer who liked me (though not most children), all the German Shepherds and mongrels galore..

They all went to Clapham Common, only off lead in certain parts as it's criss crossed with roads.

All the dog owners seemed to know each other.
Nowadays people chuck the dogs in the car and take them somewhere for excersise.

Many of these don't know how to walk nicely on lead.

The Town I have moved to reminds me more of those days ( though maybe it's the Pandemic), as all day dogs are walked past my house, to walk through to the meadows, or along the lane, at the end of my road.

> but I think people with reactive dogs sometimes need to be more responsible too.

Absolutely! And I'm not just talking form the other side, I've had a 'reactive' aggressive dog. They should be muzzled and not walked in popular off lead areas. Of course owners need to train them, but they'll see plenty of dogs on the pavements to desensitise their dogs to. Either insisting that everyone else puts leads on their dogs or risking a young dog getting bitten because it doesn't yet have a perfect recall I don't think is acceptable.

I think it’s a little bit like taking a toddler into a cinema to see an 18 film and demanding that the projectionist show a Disney film instead!

Parks and places busy of people we do need to mind what our dogs are doing and shouldn't be going up to unknown people, you never know if they have allergies or a fear. We all have to share these outside spaces and be mindful we aren't encroaching on other people enjoying it.
I see off road cyclists on a designated pathway and people refusing to move their dogs away, a little give and take and have a bit of respect for each other.
People having picnics in parks and then someone with an offlead dog, said dog goes running in and steals food, yes some people can see the funny side of it but they have just as much a right to be eating in a public space as we have walking our dogs. Yes no dog is 100% guaranteed on recall all of the time so often it's a judgement call with most but we have this entitlement with some.

There is a certain group of dogs which seem to want to terrorise mine and as such even with me body blocking and shouting at people to get their dogs as their dogs come in growling and wanting to pick a fight I get a load of verbal back at me. All I want is for them to get their dog and put it on lead!! Not difficult. I'm sick of it. One of mine can react if approached in a rude or aggressive manner and we just want to walk in peace, recently we had a Boxer come charging over to have a pop, I saw it coming and tried to get out of the park, the owner stood there and laughed. That is what I'm dealing with, people thinking it's funny that their dogs are trying to take on a Rottweiler or they just don't give a damn and shout verbals and walk off.
It happens in all locations so hence my desire to have somewhere private for me. It has gotten worse since this pandemic with out of control dogs with zero recall and manners. If your dog doesn't recall when you command it then it shouldn't be off lead, that doesn't mean allowing that dog to continue as it was and come back when it pleases.

From Chaumsong's post not all breeds have collie like instant obedience. I used to have a dog that was happy around other dogs, he would queue close to other dogs at agility shows and be reliable and happy on an exercise field. He was trained not to go up to any dog he saw but played with dogs we knew. Unfortunately he has had so many collies fly at him and even try to grab hold of him I can no longer do this but have to keep him on a lead around other dogs. I do not walk him where there are lots of dogs any more although there are so many more dogs around at the moment

I live in the part of England where we have lots of sheep so we have a lot of stupid people who let their dogs off the lead and allow them to kill pregnant sheep saying my dog would not hurt any living creature.  Shoot all dogs off the lead and their owners.

No dog should be loose near livestock.

I have a boy who is very grumpy with some dogs, and I get very annoyed when people think it is me or my actions that have caused him to not like other dogs running into his face.  He has had more socialisation than any dog I have ever owned and was fine playing off leash with other dogs until he became adult and decided that he didn't like most male intact dogs or any dog rudely rushing up to him where he hasn't had chance to assess everything is ok.  Just the way he is wired and I would prefer to see any dog put on a leash if mine is on a leash rather than owners blindly hoping that everything will go well because theirs "is friendly".  Just like I don't like everyone I meet my boy would prefer not to get close to every dog and I respect his choice.   So unless your off leash dog can be 100% guaranteed at nicely passing/ignoring another dog on a leash then pop it on to a leash until the other dog/owner has managed to get by is all I ask for.  Not much to ask is it?

'Shoot all dogs off the lead and their owners'

I find this offensive. Of course no dog should be allowed to 'worry' or injure livestock but to to advocate such violence on the forum is out of order. Thankfully we have  strict gun control laws in this country. Long may that last.

Shoot all dogs off the lead and their owners.

Ridiculous statement.

When back in the UK, nothing felt better than to be able to take our 'pack' to the nearest field walks and let them all off to do their thing, which meant range around at their own speed.   Which (normally!) with Bassets, isn't fast.   We lived in an arible farming area, so no livestock (just deer!).   We never did 'parks' so the only other dogs we'd meet locally were my neighbour's lot which was ok except she would think my lot (7+) had to meet and play with her lot (3), which they DIDN'T!!     Obviously mine were on their leads when coming back off the fields and back onto our local lanes.

People round here in general have their dogs on leads as they pass our house, even if some are on those wretched retractable leads (foolish as we have cats and squirrels around and it only takes one dive sideways when a car is passing .....).  There is one couple with two Labradors who never have them on a lead, in fact I'm not sure they HAVE leads with them now.   Admittedly the dogs seem to be well enough trained, but again, it only takes a cat or squirrel to take them out over the road and under a passing car... hope it's not me!

> There is one couple with two Labradors who never have them on a lead, in fact I'm not sure they HAVE leads with them now.   Admittedly the dogs seem to be well enough trained, but again, it only takes a cat or squirrel to take them out over the road and under a passing car... hope it's not me!

This happened to one of the lorry drivers at my mother's work. He was driving the lorry along the road and a guy who walked his dog off lead all the time was on the pavement and for unknown reasons the dog suddenly jumped out into the road straight under the tires. Dog died.

> This happened to one of the lorry drivers at my mother's work. He was driving the lorry along the road and a guy who walked his dog off lead all the time was on the pavement and for unknown reasons the dog suddenly jumped out into the road straight under the tires. Dog died.

How terribly sad!   The trouble with this couple and their Labs is they think they know it ALL.  Early days after they bought the first one (and they'd had dogs before) she proudly told me her bitch wasn't from show lines but from a working line (inferring her bitch, and another they bought later one from the same kennel, would be 100%  healthier than any show Labrador).    Fact is I'd be hard put to see worse hips on ANY 'show Labrador'

>Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could go back to the way things were, baby puppies learning from other dogs what is and is not acceptable?

I couldn't agree with you more. It's no coincidence that the best-behaved dogs you're likely to meet are those belonging to homeless people. They go everywhere with their owners and so being out and about is normal. By contrast most pet dogs are shut indoors all day and only taken out for walks a couple of times a day, meaning that when they do go off-territory they're often hopelessly over-excited and over-stimulated. Plus, of course, so many are 'fur-kids' and expected to behave like humans and given very little actual training, so when they behave like dogs and have a bit of a spat their owners over-react and accuse the other person's dog (of course it's never theirs! ) of being aggressive, not seeing the irony that they're behaving in exactly the same way!

Spot on JG with all those points! How do we fix it though, do you think we can or that we'll eventually get to the stage where no dog is ever allowed off lead?

We have many signs up my way including the countryside which says keep dogs on lead and people ignore them.
I don't have an issue with off lead dogs in safe places where they aren't going to bother other people and dogs. If people actually read and adhered to signs then we would have plenty of safe areas where dogs on lead whether reactive, injured ill,  scared etc can be walked safely without the need to hire a field.
Entitlement is what we have. I will do as I please and sod anyone else including signs.

My off-lead park has a fishing lake and there are signs all round it saying you need to keep dogs ON lead around the lake because of wildlife, etc.

Every time we’re there I see at least one loose dog. I assume most people don’t read the signs so I politely let the owners know that there’s a £100 fine, framing it as a kind of “I’d hate you to get fined” kind of thing rather than the “read  and pay attention to the signs, idiot” that I really feel.

A small but significant proportion of the people I tell don’t actually bother to put their dogs back on lead. It drives me mad, especially when there are nesting waterfowl, ducklings, etc.

Riv ignores ducks but I still put him on lead around the lake. Not difficult, and there’s plenty of space for him to run and play away from the lake.

Unfortunately people DO ignore signs.  For whatever reason.    For eg there's have a second home over the road, and despite the lockdown which is only now being gradually lifted, the owners have been coming down from Bromsgrove and staying over.   They do keep themselves to themselves mainly but still...... rule for one and a rule for the rest of us eh.

I purposely take my dogs out to places that I can let them straight out of the van without having to put them all on leads. I live in the middle of nowhere and we have most of the woodland walks to ourselves everyday. On the rare chance that I see another person/dog coming, I call all of the dogs off the track and sit them while the other person passes.
If I was out walking and a pack of 9 dogs came running up to me/my dog, I'd be horrified (and probably terrified!) so I think it is courtesy to move out of the way. Ironically, while I have my dogs sat off the track and the other walker goes by with their pet flinging itself around on the end of its extending lead, I often chuckle at their inevitable comment of "you've go your hands full" :-) One day I'll have the guts to say it first :-)  .

I was doing some focus on me training on the beach the other day. We were well back from activity he was on around 6 ft of long line so still keeping near me not wondering about. It was obvious to other owners if any dog came within 50 ft that he was on a lead as his attention went straight on them and the lead went tight wanting to say hello. This didnt mean I was wanting him to say hello under these circumstances. 2 different people with off lead dogs just allowed their dogs to come up not one tried to call their dogs off. Fortunately my boy is over friendly with other dogs but he could have just as easily been aggressive and could have attacked the other dogs. The owners were too far away to do anything.

Another woman with her dog on lead came within 20ft and just stood there letting her dog lung at mine which got mine excited. I decided to walk off giving the other dog a wide circle in the direction she had come from thinking she would carry on her walk in the opposite direction and she started following me. I left at the closest exit. No idea what she was trying to do.

I know it was a beach and you expect more off lead dogs but people still should call their dogs away from on lead dogs.

People don't recall their dogs when they know there is a good chance that they won't come back when called or they would actually like the "go away" training to be done by my dog in that "will do him/her good to be taught a lesson" kind of way.  Again, selfishly not caring about what that teaches my dog.  We need to find our voice.  I shout over to people to ask whether their dog will ignore mine and if not can they pop it on a lead for a minute, so I have given them the chance to demonstrate they know their dogs and actually make a decision based on that, I do everything I can to get my boy off the main paths to give them every chance of success,  Some of the looks and abuse that I get, you'd think I had just asked them to pick up my dog's poop.  More often than not they reluctantly do something then.  I avoid places where there are lots of off leash dogs running loose but I can't avoid them all if I want some nice walks too, If all the off lead dogs recalled all the time we wouldn't need this thread and I guess we would all be very happy.

I wonder if the rise is aggressive/reactive dogs is because years ago people wouldn't have tolerated it? The dog would have been disposed of, either passed on to someone else or destroyed. It never happened in our house as far as I recall but my dad used to say "if the dog bites, it's the last thing it will do". My dad was a Barbra Woodhouse fan. Her methods are outdated, but are today's "fur babies" any better trained or happier than dogs of the 70s/80s?

I've only had one dog aggressive dog and walked in places I knew we wouldn't meet dogs, or walked at quiet times. I didn't see the point of making her walk in a park full of dogs to cause her more distress. Not to mention I'd not be able to relax and enjoy the walk

Going back several decades, in the 50s there were latchkey dogs that formed loose groups that roamed around, simply being dogs, hence there were far more mongrels from unplanned litters that pedigree dogs & definitely very few if any"status"dogs. There were less reactive dogs because the roaming latchkey dogs were mixing from a fairly young age & were taught their manners by other more mature dogs.

Any training done included chain chokers & very definitely manhandling to "dominate" & force dogs to comply.

This was the status quo for many years even the clubs that did formal training allowed the use of chokers, the BAGSD founded in 1933 & ASPADS founded in 1919 that ran the first working trials that were limited to GSDs.

So many other pedigree breeds were not kept as pure pets, the Hounds, Gundogs & Terriers were bred mainly for some form of hunting with some dogs being shown, Working breeds were aimed either for show rings or more commonly for their traditional occupations. Toy dogs were mainly companions & the dogs that had no specific roles(Utility breeds) as well plus the showring.

Dog shows were only for the well off & of course there were no designer"breeds"

I was quite shocked as a young child to see dogs being punished in public with no one saying anything, my first dog was a pedigree I bought myself & trained with the help of a local shepherd(not a BC, but the Shepherd really understood dogs & never used fear or pain to train his dogs) From him I learnt to watch how dogs interacted & were trained by other dogs(& other animals)

I threw away my chokers in the mid 1960s & opted to only train force free, which I have done every since, developing & absorbing better methods over the years, until I now train hands off & reward only, making the dog use it's brain to learn, rather than being forced to comply.

Over the years as dogs have become status symbols for people who should never be allowed to own one, some have been bred & reared for pure aggression towards people as well as dogs.

I would say around 80% of the general public either haven't got a clue about natural dog behaviour or base their knowledge on TV personality "trainers/behaviourists who present their instant result programs, including the use E collars etc. They see growling & baking as aggression, because they have been told that on TV.

I would think only 10% of dogs receive any form of training, choosing vet's "puppy" parties or daycare as an alternative, usually run by VNs or poorly trained daycare staff.

The public on a whole think if you attach a lead plus collar of some description or harness to a dog, the dog will walk nicely when out, they think that dogs have to be walked daily from as early as possible, they never bother to train their dogs off lead before taking them out & so teach their dogs to pull. They also assume that all dogs should be allowed to interact with unknown dogs unfettered, regardless of whether the other dogs are on lead or off.

I have an ex street dog(yes one of those awful foreign things) he learnt to defend himself & his "possessions" on the streets & does not tolerant other dogs invading his space, he growls & air snaps, but to Joe Public he's reactive & aggressive, they do not realise it's their dog's behaviour that causes it. If dogs are kept at a respectable distance, he ignores them completely.

I know of a good few dogs that have learnt to be defensive because of experiences in "puppy parties" where rough housing is allowed or big puppies mixed with smaller puppies without very much control.

To me the increase in allegedly reactive dogs is due to inept owners somewhere along the line & they leave others to deal with the resulting problems.

I still am of the opinion that owners should have to be licensed & pass an assessment BEFORE they can get a dog & basic training in a formal setting with their puppy be compulsory.

Years ago when I was a child dogs weren't taken to parks for playing, walks were out in the countryside. Dogs having play dates and that weren't a thing. I know when one of our dogs (this was a good 30yrs plus ago) bit a kid it was the kids fault and the kid got the blame and royally told off. He went to the dog who was in his bed out of the way, the kid had a panda mask on and went up to the dog who was sleeping and went BOO loudly and thus scared the dog. No blame on the dog from my parents or the kids parents. No taking the dog to a behaviourist, no report to police or complaints anywhere, no taking the dog to be rehomed or destroyed.
Dog Training classes were around then but obviously most were probably BW style though I never saw any rough treatment of our dogs, by voice alone they knew when they were misbehaving  and stopped.
I think there are more dog owners now, many more different breeds have come to the fore beyond the Labrador which has always been one the all time favourite go to breeds.
Too many baby their dogs and put human emotions into then. We have many more rescues, many more poorly treated dogs and also many more ex Street dogs.
Even though our dogs (when I was a kid)were pets they were also seen as a working dog, not in the conventional gundog sense but went to work as company on the land. They did live in the house, not allowed on sofas, not allowed upstairs, weren't allowed to technically play with balls and all that.
As I got older I used to take the dog for proper walks, I taught him to play and engage and snuck him many times upstairs and onto sofas.

I do think breed specific traits come into it,not as many shonky breeders either back then. The Internet and the boom of puppy sales has given more scope for people to advertise. Before it was word of mouth of advertising in the Friday ad or animal magazines and newspapers.

> my dad used to say "if the dog bites, it's the last thing it will do"

I’ve lost count of how many times River has bitten me, but I can tell you exactly how many of those bites were his fault - zero.

He isn’t a dangerous dog and I’m perfectly confident for anyone to say hello to him and give him a fuss if he’s interested, because he’s absolutely fine with normal interactions.

His problems are with things he thinks might possibly hurt him, like grooming (he can’t cope if the brush catches a tangle and pulls his fur, for example) or being picked up. Bites happen when he’s either given a lot of signals that he’s uncomfortable but you’ve ignored them so he feels he has no choice but to bite, or because he’s so panicked he has to get the thing to stop RIGHT NOW. Thankfully I did a good job teaching him bite inhibition as a pup because it’s rare for him to actually hurt me.

I don’t think he’s a coddled “fur baby”, I treat him as a dog, but I try my best to understand him and make things easier for him. He’s very sensitive and he’s had bad experiences he hasn’t been able to forget, and none of this makes him a bad dog or one who should be given away or euthanised.

I do wonder if a lot of so-called aggressive dogs are actually in pain. I know River has improved a lot since he’s recovered from patella surgery, his knees must have been quite uncomfortable even with painkillers before they got fixed.

I have to say I think Barbara Woodhouse's methods are much maligned

I have one of her books and watched her TV programs

Yes the methods were traditional hands on, but never cruel.

Use of check chains apart, that used correctly on a relaxed dog do not cause issues. I think the vast majority of dogs shown are on a slip lead or check chain.

I prefer half check collars myself as they are more comfortable on a heavily coated dog than a correctly adjusted standard collar, but pull up to that width with any pressure.

For 'Control' walking multiple dogs I prefer head halters.

My dogs walk nicely, but the sudden appearance of Cat, Squirrel or Fox will get a reaction before I have time to react with a command.

Many will say proper training will prevent pulling, but during training being able to stop it, so incorrect behaviour is not reinforced by practice, the control aids (a lead is control) are needed/helpful, especially for the less able bodied/less strong.

> Yes the methods were traditional hands on, but never cruel.

The force she used in her choke chain corrections was most definitely cruel.  I remember watching a video of hers while I was studying canine behaviour.  She demonstrated how to do it on a flatcoat.  The dog was sat still doing absolutely nothing, so she could give a nice clear demonstration.  She yanked that dog hard enough and suddenly enough that his front feet left the floor, and he looked terrified.  All that for the sake of a demo.

From a trainer's perspective, a big part of so much problem behaviour is positive reinforcement.

Not the method itself - it's what I use - but the application of it.  Or rather, the absence of knowing HOW to apply it.  Most of my clients these days don't want to punish their dogs but they also haven't found much useful information on how to curb problem behaviours without doing that, so their dogs are out of control.  With a bit of guidance into how to put R+ into practice (including management to prevent unwanted behaviours from happening, not ignoring them when they do), they usually exclaim that it's so simple!  We just needed to know how to do it!

So that's a big issue.  We're in a transition period with training where R+ is definitely coming to the fore, and being emphasised to animal owners, but the knowledge of application is not at the same level, so things are going a bit wrong.  That is in turn encouraging a rise in the old school harsh methods again, because people are frustrated with R+ not working as it should (plus impatience for some because they want a quick fix).

Add to that the ridiculous level of p!ss poor breeding practices, all of the puppies coming from parents with questionable temperaments... it's a mess and it's only going to get worse.  I've got a collie on the books at the moment who is seriously reactive to people and dogs.  She's a bite risk (muzzled).  When I asked if she'd been spayed, the owner said no, because they were intending on having at least one litter from her and want to be a commercial breeder.  This dog was a rehome at 3 months old from a poor situation, they don't know anything about her breeding at all.  I told them in no uncertain terms that this dog is NOT suitable for breeding.  At all.

As long as anyone can just think "I'll have a litter" regardless of the fact that their dog has bitten and is a bite risk, there's no hope.

Add to that the sheer number of dogs in this country now, plus the random mixing of breeds types, plus the abundance of awful diets, plus long working hours, plus under or oversocialisation, plus a culture of "it's not my fault", plus a culture of "I can do what I want", plus expecting dogs to be perfect (not dogs, in other words), plus attitudes and legislation being heavily weighted against dogs behaving like normal dogs, well... it's a mess, and it's only going to get worse.  It's no wonder we have so many reactive dogs.

Apart from my dislike of positive punishment, my biggest issue with Barbara Woodhouse and similar trainers is they don’t seem to give the dog the opportunity to actually understand what they want them to do before they start shocking or jerking at them.

It seems very unfair to teach a dog to sit by yanking the chain upwards until it assumes the correct position, when it’s actually quite easy to get the same behaviour with a handful of chicken bits!

It’s a bit like asking a preschool kid what 9x7 is and snacking them round the head when they inevitably have no idea what you’re actually asking them, let alone what the answer is.

For me there's a few reasons other than a lead causing it.

1. Fewer stay at home at adults. When my dad was growing up mum was a stay at home mum, they didn't have a car, they walked everywhere and took the dogs with them. Now if you ask people on the street how often they walk there dogs, emm I have a big back garden, I'm busy maybe a couple of times a week, he's not fat so he's getting enough. Ties in with the increasing percentage of overweight dogs.

2. There seems to be a shift in what people expect from dogs and not for the better. When I grew up, don't pet a dog without asking it might bite, don't go up to a dog that's eating it might bite. Now it's no dog should ever bite ever, it's not normal and if it does sometimes is wrong with the dog rather than the behaviour of the people involved. Along with never expecting them to bite people seem to think they should get alone with every dog and push them into it when they don't want too giving the dog no chioce but to snap, creating a reactive in the first place.

3. Discipline seems to have become a bad word and treated as synonymous with abuse. So now one corrects the bad behaviour of thier dogs or children for that matter. Sure some abuse thier dogs under the excuse of discipline but fair discipline isn't abusive.

4. Increase in puppy prices has made breeding a big profit maker for those cutting corners causing massive increase in puppy farms and BYB breeding dogs with poor tempermant/health.

5. Social media has terrified people about exercising puppies seen so many people being attacked for walking their puppies more than 5 minutes. So missing out on the critical period of socialisation. Over excerise a pup is possible but some people have taken this to an extreme.

So personally I don't think an increase in lead use is causing more reactive dogs. I believe there's an increase in lead use because of wider society problems with dogs rather than the other way around

Just been thinking, perhaps differences in training methods have contributed to there being more reactive dogs around for a different reason.

If you’ve got a group of dogs there’s always going to be some variation in sensitivity levels between and how much punishment they can deal with. I’ve heard people talk about “soft” and “hard” dogs. So assuming the sensitive dogs can’t cope with punishment and become more fearful/reactive/aggressive if they’re trained with punishment, perhaps some of them end up euthanised because they’ve bitten, or are “untrainable” or whatever.

Those same dogs in a reward-based training program might still be reactive, but without punishment they aren’t being pushed into becoming worse to the stage where they “go to live on a farm”.

Barbara Woodhouse was a contempary of John Holmes, with the supplying of dogs for UK films.

Sadly it was Woodhouse who got the TV series, John and his wife had far more insight into animal behaviour than Woodhouse ever displayed.

I remember the Tiny Yorkie that she took off the owner & gave it one of her infamous jerks & sent the poor dog flying off camera. Don't tell me that wasn't cruel. She could has easily broken the dog's neck.

> She could has easily broken the dog's neck.

Or collapsed its trachea.

I have one of her books (I’d give it to a charity shop but I honestly don’t want anyone trying her methods) and something that always struck me as strange was her insistence that her dogs should love her and no one else, and merely tolerate other people. Kind of egocentric, and not taking a dog’s personality or wishes into account.

I keep going back to my own dogs, but my now-deceased Labrador loved other people (my very-much-alive Papillon is the same, he loves people only marginally less than he loves dogs) and honestly I’ve very much enjoyed sharing them with appropriate people, if my dogs are happy and enthusiastic to have a bit of fuss with someone who loves dogs, I’m all for it. Why would you want to take that away from a dog, except to bolster your own ego with the idea that your dog only has eyes for you? The cynic in me thinks it might be because a relationship based on punitive training isn’t quite as deep and secure as she’d like, and because it’s much easier to tell yourself what you’re doing is right if your dog only loves you. I can’t possibly be abusing my dog, see, look how much he loves me!

I do wonder exactly how Barbara would have persuaded River that only she existed and to find no pleasure at all in other humans, but I suspect neither me nor River would like the answer.

I find the Premack principle far too useful not to harness River’s desire to greet someone. Want to see that person? Sit and give me eye contact and you can say hi.

> So assuming the sensitive dogs can’t cope with punishment and become more fearful/reactive/aggressive if they’re trained with punishment, perhaps some of them end up euthanised because they’ve bitten, or are “untrainable” or whatever.

Absolutely.  What I see often, at the opposite end to people who haven't done anything for fear of hurting or upsetting their dog, is people who have punished the dog frequently, many times, for "undesirable" behaviour such as growling, snapping, nipping or being reactive.  Very often those dogs are indeed the sensitive kinds, and their behaviour only gets worse under that sort of treatment.  They're already struggling to cope and then the human makes it so much harder to with punishment so they just fall apart.  Some shut down altogether, many become far worse.

There is also the type of dog to consider - some just aren't tolerant of harsh handling, and the above scenario happens with them too, although it's more often directed at the owner than at other dogs or people.  I met a 4 month old cane corso on sunday and he's already nipped the male owner, because if he steals something or picks something up, the guy is grabbing him and forcibly taking it out of his mouth.  That sort of dog isn't going to tolerate that handling for long and at only 4 months, this dog is already starting to retaliate.

> That sort of dog isn't going to tolerate that handling for long

I suppose that the large powerful breeds are the ones that suffer worst from this because people assume that you need to be “tough” with them, in the same way that they think small dogs can’t cope with even R+ training. (My River is very happy to prove them wrong on that last one!)

Picking up stuff he shouldn’t put on walks is a thing that River does a lot, I think he’s very spaniel-like in that he likes to carry stuff around, he has some resource guarding issues, and he’s also such a food monster that a discarded pasty wrapper is irresistible to him. He would absolutely bite if I took something from his mouth, so if it isn’t a dangerous object I generally let him carry it until he gets bored and drops it if his own accord. For anything I really don’t want him to have I can usually persuade him to drop with some really good treats, distract him with “find it” for more treats and get him focused on me before I move him away or remove the object. I also encourage him to bring safe objects that I’d just prefer he didn’t have (socks, balls of wool, etc) to me for a quick game of tug so I can naturally end the game by asking him to drop it and reward for that. Of course I also use drop it all the time as part of tug games, so drop it becomes a way he can get me to throw the toy or make it “come alive” for chasing and tugging. I just want him to know he can let me have an object and there’s a good chance he’ll get it back with a free game thrown in as well.

Used to have 3 dogs at the same time,
1st was a pointer/whippet, tell him off was 'Oh Freckles what did you do' in quite a soft voice response was 'Sorry, sorry, sorry, won't do it again, didn't mean to'
2nd was very confident, well adjusted Rott, you could roar at her and threaten that the sky would fall in, response was, 'yeh, yeh, what you said, now lets get on with something interesting'
3rd was Shepherd and usually 'Oy, stop that, pack it in' was enough.

As far as taking 'wrong' stuff from dogs - taught all 6 dogs we have had to do 'swapsies' - I have that-you have a treat.  Pinacle of that was last Shepherd who twice picked up a large hedgehog, rushed into his crate put it down and sat waiting for treat !!

That reminds me of my recently deceased Beagle girl who once delivered a young live rat to hand. I thought it was an old grey tennis ball!

> Oh Freckles what did you do

I have a surprised-and-a-bit-disappointed voice which is as close as I ever get to punishment. “River, you know better!” It’s pretty much for me rather than him, because 9 times out 10 it’s me that should know better!