All advice welcome.

My darling 15 year old Cassie has had episodic liquid stools for two months now. She is well in herself, still up for games and walks although I dare not take her to her favourite places while she has the diarrhea. Her appetite is good. Up to when this began her diet consisted of Arden Grange dried food with complement raw food added. She and the other dogs have been thriving on this for years and their stools always firm and minimal.

Since the age of nine, when she was diagnosed as hypothyroid, she has been on thyroxin replacement drugs with regular check ups and annual TSH and T4. All fine. She has also been on Meloxacam for a few months now due to some arthritis. She has been seen and examined by the vet and full blood profile and stool samples - all normal.

I know she is getting on in years and I was thinking that maybe this was age related. I turned down the vet's suggestion of endoscopy and biopsy as I did not think it appropriate but mainly because I do not want  to subject her to general anaesthesia.  However, while on my regular beach yesterday I met a lady who described the exactly the same situation in her young whippet. I am desperate. Her life is now restricted due to the diarrhea. I bred her and both parents lived to 16 + and never had anything like this.

p.s. We are in the process of moving house and it has been a very stressful time. Could this be a factor ?

Our Teazel (elderly Whippet) has been having this lately and I had a fecal done - all totally clear.  She's currently on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal which has returned her stools to as they should be.  I knew of another Whippet who'd go to producing this - unlike Teazel who is coming up to 13, he was young.  In neither case, mine or my neighbour's, was there any undue stress involved although mine has a heart murmur, and I gather this can affect stool quality.   Could be that moving house has upset her system however.  Might a course on RC Gastro be worth considering.  Mine loves it!!

Stress could be a feature but mellococam can in some animals cause diarrhoea. Not necessarily at the beginning of use but as time goes on .
Can she come off that for a while and maybe be given another drug to see if anything changes.
If u vet can get it there is the new arthritis drug that has excellent results

Thank you both Mambas and Furriefriends for the above advice. I understand this new drug is difficult to get hold of at the moment but will investigate that. And try Mamabas's food suggestion. In between the days of liquid stools her poo returns to normal. She hasn't has any Meloxocam for a couple of days as I am still waiting for a new bottle from my vet.
I am sure my stress isn't helping her. I am reduced to bouts of crying as i worry about her and the move has been very stressful. We have to rent for 3 months whiie the house we are buying is built . There have been delays due to shortages of building materials. I am so sad about leaving here but ultimately the land and gardens have been too much work at our age and the house far too big now that the family have all left. We are not moving far and there will be more dog walking opportunities where we are going. That was our number 1 priority!
I was so looking forward to Cassie enjoying them

I can understand how hard it must be deciding to move after many years but also exciting in a new house.
Working about cassie doesn't help you either . Hopefully 3 months will pass soon and u can get cassie sorted
If it is the meloxicam it can take a little while to settle ime

Could you feed her a permanent probiotic? In order to help her gut? If you’re adding raw as well I’d also perhaps add some pumpkin/sweet potato to her meals to help aid her in producing firm poos - tinned pumpkin is amazing at how fast it can help firm up poos, but can be tricky to find as supermarkets don’t often sell it and on amazon it’s quite pricey but sweet potato is a good alternative.

If u use tinned pumpkin make sure its just pumpkin some of the tinned ones contain other things . I think its lobby's who do one and tesco sell it in the foods of the world section.

Yes, Sainsbury’s do one too - ‘baking buddy’ is the brand, this is the one we get, sometimes can be in world food/baking/cupboard section depending on the store

Thankyou Madforlabs. I looked for tinned pumkin in Morrisons the other day but there was none. Will try Amazon. Price not a problem, at the moment anyway. When all this started she refised to eat the raw food and wouldonly eat the dried. I took that to mean that she 'knew' that was not good for her-at that time anyway. I got Kanicur tablets on Amazon but sadly they made no difference but will try again. She has been very good and manages to get outside in time during the day and downstairs onto an inco pad at night.

Thankyou Madforlabs. I looked for tinned pumkin in Morrisons the other day but there was none. Will try Amazon. Price not a problem, at the moment anyway. When all this started she refised to eat the raw food and wouldonly eat the dried. I took that to mean that she 'knew' that was not good for her-at that time anyway. I got Kanicur tablets on Amazon but sadly they made no difference but will try again. She has been very good and manages to get outside in time during the day and downstairs onto an inco pad at night.

Sweet potato is easier either already cut up or whole..just boill and u can freeze in suitable size containers.  I use muffin tins for that sort of thing so its easy to pop out as needed
Although I totally raw feed and am totally passionate about it.
if she were mine I would remove the raw atm just so that u remove one of variables in the situation.  She will be eating a complete diet with just the kibble so no worries there

Yes have stopped the raw. She's just had another liquid stool. 4th this morning. They all loved the raw and seemed to be fine. In the old day when I had up to 14 dogs they only ever got Arden Grange with either a bit of cooked mince or tinned sardine added for 'interest'. All lived long healthy lives. We lost our Goldie, Flinti aged 15 years and 6 months in January and he was fed the same.

I'm so sorry you are having this ...... there's nothing worse than dreading the next 'outflow'!!  And it's even worse if some bug hits a small pack, as occasionally happened with ours.  Nightmare.  I still think you maybe should try either Hills I/D or Royal Canin Gastro .... I went to my vet for the Hills as it worked really well for Frankie and his Giardia/stool problem but they only had Royal Canin, so I bought that.  I have just ordered another try online (Animed) as it's way cheaper.  I am now starting to add just a handful of the Harringtons I had her on and so far, all ok.

You might try cooking up some fish and potato which, after moving to the Hills with Franks, I was advised to try.  After that worked, I went to a commercially made fish and potato (I think it was Autarky) which maintained the good stool production.

So, I had already ordered a few tins of Arden Grange Sensitive white fish and potato, which she has enjoyed in the past. That should come today. I also forgot to mention that the vet prescribed a 7 day course of antibiotics while we were awaiting the stool sample results. I am worried that there could be a false negative. I suspected Giardiasis initially.

I really am in low mood over this, so worried about her. I will speak to the vet on Monday. I deffo do not want to subject her to invasive procedures which would involve GA. The fact that she got well again between all of this gives me hope but then I start to fear the worst!

Thank you all for all advice so far. Wll keep you updated.

Thank you ! Will get those

> I got Kanicur tablets on Amazon but sadly they made no difference

I really like the Vet IQ stoolfirm tablets, she could have these every day as a preventative, nothing harmful in them. Available on amazon, from PaH etc

River was on Meloxicam for his luxating patellas for a few months until he had a horrible bout of colitis - liquid diarrhoea that literally squirted out of him and quickly became almost all blood, poor lad. Clearly in pain, refusing food, and crying to go out every hour or so.

Vet said it was either giardia or he’d suddenly decided he couldn’t tolerate meloxicam, so we switched to tramadol and treated him with an anti parasitic, and also gave him a drug that’s used for soothing gastric ulcers that I forget the name of.

He’d already starved himself for 24 hours by that point, so we offered boiled potato with a tiny bit of live yogurt and either cooked white fish or scrambled egg, and waited until his poo got back to normal to reintroduce his normal diet. (Akela salmon kibble in the morning, complete raw in the evening.) He didn’t want to drink enough at first so I’d tempt him with cooking water from the fish/potato.

Hope Cassie starts feeling better, it can’t be nice feeling like that.

Really coming round to the possibility that the Meloxicam may be causing this.

I will phone vet to ask if not too late to cancel posting. It is complicated as Cassie has two vets-one in Eastbourne, where we used to live, and where she was always treated. For this situation she has been under the care of our local practice in Berwickshire. They had access to her medical history and are sharing it with the vet in Eastbourne.

Either way we will stop the Meloxicam and get other treatment for her arthritis- it is only in her front right leg. And continue to help solve the diarrhea situation.

Definitely worth speaking to the vet. This is a good probiotic, not too expensive, and can be used every day. I give it to my girls daily to promote good gut health, personally think all dogs should take one anyway. It’s just one tsp daily so not half as expensive as kanikur tablets. https://animal-health.co.uk/product/prozyme

Please stop the meloxicam. I had a dog which developed liquid and bloody stools after using it.

There are many alternative meds which can be tried which are also pain killers. You can spend ages trying all kinds of probiotics and fibre and so on, to no avail if you don't fix the most probable underlying cause...

Talk to your vet about trying an alternative. (If you try a couple and they don't work, then maybe try the other stuff!)

Thank you 1234,
She was doing fine on Meloxicam for months. Really helped her mobility. My husband ( retired medic) was always nagging me about its nephrotoxic etc risks. I've taken her off it for a few days now. She is back to limping poor girl. She had a firm stool yesterday afternoon but this morning more yellow slop. She is becoming unwell now and looks miserable. I am phoning for an appointment with the vet this morning. I have a tin of pumpkin and some probiotics so will give them a try but for sure she needs medical help.

> She is becoming unwell now and looks miserable

Oh no, sorry to hear this, I hope you get to the bottom of it and she picks up soon.

Have you tried dorwest  herbs Tree Barks Powder? I’ve found that very helpful for loose poos.

Glad you're going to the vet. It can take a few days or so to recover if it's the meloxicam. By the way, milk thistle is great for dogs which need help with their liver - it really supports the liver healing itself. You can get it from Dorwest Herbs.

Have you tried all the non-prescription ideas altogether, for the limping? Before resorting to NSAIDs? I put my older dogs on golden paste, Riaflex Joint Plus, Devils Claw (also from Riaflex), Green Mussel Powder (Riaflex) and wild fish oil and we've always seen all old-age related pains stop on all that lot together and I've never needed prescription meds for them. At 13yo, they are all still jumping in and out the car...

Thank you 1234 for above. Will give that a try. And thank you all for your advice and support. It has been so helpful.
So, the situation so far. We got a vet appointment yesterday. Cassie had lost over 2 kg in just three weeks. She is off Meloxicam and vet precribed a low dose steroid, analgesia -paracetamol/codeine combo and metronidazole. I am upstairs as i type so unable to give the precise names of drugs. She was restless during the night and drinking a lot but now settled and poos normal this morning. She looked much happier last night. She had been looking anxious and depressed -I'm sure you know what I mean - but was wagging her tail for the first time in what seems ages.
we are hopeful.
x

Forgot to mention that I asked about Librela injection but as it is in short supply it is only being given to dogs already on it.

There are other different pain reliefs in dogs. Onsior is one and if its arthritis related you could try Galiprant.

Have you joined the fb group called Holly's Army? A wealth of knowledge on there for arthritic dogs and dogs with joint issues and it's run by CAM (Canine Arthritis Management)

We had been using onsior for lotus cats arthritis with good response .
Hopefully the problems with the new drug will not be long term

Contraindications for Meloxicam(Metacam) are:-
Sickness & decrease in appetite, change in bowel movements (black, tarry or bloody stools or diarrhea), change in behavior (increased or decrease activity level,incoordination, seizure, or aggression), jaundice (yellowing of gums, skin or whites of eyes)increase water consumption or urination changes (frequency, color, or smell), skin irritation (redness, scabs, or scratching), stomach ulcers may unexpected weight loss & jacinally

Just to say my Frankie had been on Metacam for a long time, much as I reduced the amount I was giving to as low as I could to control his pain.  It was so sad that after he finally went off his back legs, I was advised to up his dose to the max but during his final night, he was producing vile diarrhoea and vomiting (none of the other stated side-effects), which was clearly finally a reaction to the Metacam.  It was all too late to do anything for him, other than give him peace.  The manner of his going, his final time on earth, was heartbreaking.

Thank you Suejaw
I 'm not on any Facebook groups but should have found out about that one. Will look into it/

Thank you Ann,

Diarrhea, poor coordination and disorientation, increased water consumption- we have bowls everywhere around the place and they need replenishing constantly and I was aware of her getting up to drink from the water bowl in the bedroom frequently and other signs and symptoms fit your description. I should have picked this up.

Sadly so many vets don't hand over the information leaflets, that come with all drugs, to owners, it is, I understand, a legal requirement whenever drugs are dispensed, this includes vaccines BTW.

Then at least the owner has a historical source of information & doesn't have to remember what was mentioned(& frequently not mentioned or incorrectly mentioned~like dogs needing annual core vaccine "boosters" or full course needed if a"booster"id done in time)

Hope the change in meds helps your girl, it's awful to see them unwell

Ann is totally right, but you can look up the data sheets with come with drugs yourself. Go to https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk and search for the meds your dog is prescribed. Loads of useful info you won't get told by the vet, there.

How's Cassie doing now Jan? I'm hoping she's back to her old self?

Hi and thank you for asking
Been meaning to post an update but so much going on here with house move and human health issues.

She is much better and her poo pretty well back to normal. She was  prescribed a low dose steriod and a paracetamol/codeine drug.- Parvale.She was also prescribed a course of Metroniadozole. But we are certain she was reacting to long term use of Meloxicam. I feel I let her down in so far as I should have picked up the signs more quickly. She had become very lethargic, which I attributed to fluid loss due to diarrhea but also she was having 'petit mal' type seizures while sleeping. She was restless durng the night and constantly thirsty.

Her blood tests and stool samples were all normal and after a week off the Meloxicam she she was back to normal,poo wise anyway. At 15 years and 4 months of age, I know she can't go on forever but at least she is now able to come out for beach walks and ball games.

Unfortunately she is limping again with the arthritic front leg. There seems to be little chance of Librela being available at the moment so I am concerned about that. Also, she is suddenly unable to see in the dark. I have to put the bedside light on so she can find her water bowl. This has developed along side the other symptoms.

I wish they could stay young forever !

I'm so glad that her tummy has settled down, could you try some other nsaid like previcox for her arthritis?

Update on Cassie. She travelled south with me and Paddy on Wednesday. She was fine during the journey, as usual, despite 4 train changes. We walked through the park to our house here and she was chasing after the ball as usual. She went out for a late night walk as  normal. But yesterday was a nightmare. She became completely and copiously incontinent of urine. I kept taking her outside but it made no difference. We have inco pads all over the floors and I am having to change them constantly. She seemed at times disorientated and was restless and panting a lot. She is booked in to see our regular vet -one reason for bringing her down as we are now temporarily in a rented cottage in Bamburgh and there is no nearby vet. And yes, she is thirsty all the time.

Medswise she has been on a planned reduction in her prednisolone so now 5mg every other day plus her usual thyroxin replacementand Parvale nce a day for her joints.The latter two meds are working well. We stopped meloxicam when it was  decided she should no longer be on NSAIDS.

Her appetite is good. OKay , she is 15years and 5 months but this deterioration is so sudden. WE are booked to travel north on Monday and I just do not know how we will manage the journey in this scenario. Her stools have been pretty normal although I am careful with what she eats
I have ordered doggie diapers and more inco pads.
As I write she is sleeping peacefully

Has she been tested for Cushings / Diabestes ?

When i had to stop Metacam with my old girl i used CBD oil with great sucsess.

Fingers crossed you can make her comfortable.

Oh no Jan, what a nightmare. I've no advice I'm afraid, just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hope dear old Cassie recovers as quickly as she went downhill.

Thank you Claire,
Yes, I considerd Cushings ( she is on prednisolone) steroid induced diabetes and addisons ( as she is on reduced predisolone dose) She hs been prescribed phenylpropolamine. I am not optimistic for her . She is sleeping next to me as I write but we have had two floods of urine on the floor this morning.

Thank you chaumsong. Am PM ing you

Jan, it's known that prednisolone/steroids cause excessive thirst and excessive urination. It's probably the most common side effects of prednisolone. I had a young dog on it about a year ago, and she ran through the house urinating as she went - seemingly oblivious to it. And that was a young, intact female. I would not at all be surprised that an elderly spayed female is leaking so much.

Discuss with your vet reducing or stopping the prednisolone...

Thank you 1234
Cassie has been on a reducing dose for 7 days now but her health generally has been deteriorating. I will PM you if that's okay.