Hi all, would love some advice. Ive had a puppy returned to me. The owners stated they couldn't care for him, they didnt have the time for him, he was unhappy and depressed, they were unhappy. They had cut themselves off from him and he was in another room away from the family environment. They asked me to find another family. Three weeks later they now want a full refund.

That is only step one and this story goes a lot deeper, but to be brief.

Since January we've been telling them to fed him as have the vets. In April he had high temp which looked like srma, they refused to get him diagnosed, so treated for high temp at vets and sent home a few days later.  June another high temp episode. Refused diagnosis again, I offered to pay for diagnosis. They refused. Vets gave low level steroids, not enough to suppress immune system but he responded well to low level. Two weeks later they ask me to have him back and drop him off that night, stating they can't care for him and give him the time he deserves.

Somewhere between April and June he's been neutered despite my advice to wait til 18months. He's 12kg, emaciated, (his brother was 18kg in April) he doesn't know how to be a dog, and seemed amazed to have cuddles, love and nurturing.

I have found him a new home, he has put on 3.5kg since being with me, he's undergone some treatment to help his muscles and is swimming weekly now, he wasn't flea'd or wormdd, he is now, etc, the list goes one. 

the original owners want their money back stating he has an auto immune disease and therefore are due it.

I want to keep my response to them brief and business like, such as a full refund would be offered within a month of having puppy. And they asked me to rehome, which I have with no financial gain to myself, in fact I continue to pay for his feed and meds etc. I have carefully bred the dogs for health and followed all the best practice Inc clear dna results as per KC.

I would really value some thoughts on this. I am of course a little emotionally involved as the pup came back in such a state.

What does your contract state? Do you specify that you will give a refund etc?

Hia, no there's nothing there stating I would give a refund. Its the KC assured breeders contract. It states that I will take a dog back and its something I was very clear on with all the puppy owners. But this is very weird, it feels all financial and not with the welfare of the dog at heart.

'So sue me!!' comes to mind.  After having had him for that long, they are not entitled to any refund, never mind a full one especially given the rehoming clause in your Sale Contract.   At least you have the puppy back - maybe I'd have considered making a refund to get the puppy back and into safety.

I had to get an older puppy we'd homed back (we only homed her after her dams sister produced better quality puppies and we couldn't keep them all).  I told the people who I'd let home her, for a nominal cost btw, I'd make a refund less a minimal boarding fee until I found her another home.  This I did and actually she wasn't back with us for more than a few days.  I later heard from the woman saying she wished she'd rehomed her herself as she could have asked, and got, way more than her refund was!  Note - every puppy we sold went with a clause saying we'd take them back whenever, if they new owners couldn't keep the puppy, for whatever reason.

Bottom line - for how long does what happens to that puppy remain the responsibility of the breeder who sells a healthy puppy, in good faith.

Thank you. It's been so hard fore to write a non emotional reply to their requests. I have put so much into him, offered to pay when the vets wanted to diagnose something that they refused to pay for. I've been barked at by them saying the same thing, that they could have sold him elsewhere. I didn't want that, hence the clause.
This is my first litter, they are all healthy with my keeper showing. He too is healthy now that he's been fed and looked after. They claim the reason for refund is because they beleve him to be auto immune despite not being diagnosed.
I believe, as do experts who have seen him, that if he had srma it was as a result of environment, development and probably something genetic... Although this is currently being researched to identify genes.

If the contract doesn't mention it, they can't ask for money after the fact - ie - they can't return the dog to you and THEN say 'we'd like some money'. If they wanted money, they should have negotiated that with you BEFORE returning the dog to you.

If you've got the dog and no money has been mentioned until after you've got him, they don't really have a leg to stand on legally.

But if you're worried and would like advice, call Trevor Cooper and pay for a phone consult with him (he's a lawyer who specialises in dog cases) and if you need, he can always write a scary legal sounding letter to get them to shut up.

Thank you so much. I will look him up. Thanks!

https://doglaw.co.uk/about-us/#:~:text=Solicitor%20Trevor%20Cooper%2C%20the%20Principal,of%20acting%20for%20dog%20owners.&text=Trevor%20has%20previously%20been%20a,Battersea%20Dogs%20and%20Cats%20Home. 

This is his website

make sure you retain all emails and text messages from what has gone on.  I would not give them a penny.  presumably he visited your vet upon return- if need be ask if they would write up on his condition on return -and what he looked like a at puppy check .   I am very glad you have the poor little thing out of their hands and it would make me even less inclined to give them any money as if they get the money they can go buy another puppy thinking they can do the same again if get bored of looking after the puppy

I agree that Trevor Cooper is the way to go. I would be scaring the cr@p out of them with the mention of the RSPCA as well , letting them know that they did not provide adequate care neither did they follow recommended  veterinary advice.
If you can get your own vet to back you up that would be the way to go.
I have experience of SRMA and you are right in that no one knows what causes it, they can only say that something causes the immune system to go haywire, either genetic or environmental . The only accurate diagnostic tool is lumbar puncture done with MRI.
It’s important that the new owners know that SRMA often recurs, but is treatable with steroids. It’s really important that any dog on a steroid dose twice a day has Omeprazole to protect the gut.

Hi Garbo, thanks. Luckily he's only once a day, and it's such a low dose. He's on 10mg so not even an immune suppression dose, it was just enough, so he may not even have it, but because she refused diagnosis they had to treat carefully and say its something viral, but we are keeping the dose up and slowly reducing just in case.

There are some awful people out there, I’m very pleased you got him back.

Was just wondering whether you took any photos of him alongside his sibling when he was returned for comparison purposes? Thought it might be useful ammo just in case. I don’t think I would believe one word that they utter. I don’t think I’d have any faith at all in a vet that was prepared to neuter such a young pup either.

Two weeks later they ask me to have him back and drop him off that night, stating they can't care for him and give him the time he deserves.

Legally they have given up all rights to him by doing this and cannot get a penny from you.

Pictures were taken and vets did weight for me too. The owner was a tricky customer with the vets she was nasty to them, real snipy. I witnessed her in action and was embarrassed! So God knows what she said to get them to agree neutering him.