I'm going to Advocate two of my dogs tonight for lungworm prevention. It's going to be really hot this week and next and I really want to swim them, probably almost daily. I can wait some days to do this, but I can't wait weeks...

But I do need to Advocate them now because we've returned from a lungworm hotspot, so it can't really wait. (I don't usually use it, so this is a one-off.)

Reading the data sheet, it says:

"Brief contact of the animal with water on one or two occasions between monthly treatments is unlikely to significantly reduce the efficacy of the product. However, frequent shampooing or immersion of the animal in water after treatment may reduce the efficacy of the product."

Thoughts? People who use Advocate, how long do you wait before swimming your dogs?

I won't be doing any 'frequent shampooing' (in fact, no shampooing!) - but I will be immersing the animal in water. What does 'after treatment' mean? Any time after treatment? Immediately or soon after treatment?

I don't care about having flea protection for an entire month - I just want to zap any lungworm they might have picked up. Surely if I wait 4 days after treatment before swimming, that will give it enough time to take effect for the lungworm side of things?

Can you run this past the manufacturers directly?   If it says no immersion in water, then I'd probably not risk swimming.

Well it doesn't say 'no immersion in water', it says as above... 'after treatment' - I don't know if that means at all, ever (which I find hard to believe, considering loads of dogs like to swim and still need protection!).

And it is effective against different things. Fleas, for example - will definitely need it to remain effective for an entire month if you want your dogs to be protected against fleas for a month. But lungworm meds don't work like that. They just kill anything the dog has picked up during the last month. So if I give them 4-5 days to do this, surely I'd be ok...

I can ask the manufacturer except I rarely get answers back from manufacturers. I feel they only want to speak to vets.

Most of these products recommend waiting 48 hours after treatment before allowing the dog to swim (to avoid polluting the watercourse as must as reducing the efficacy of the product). You could always give a Milbemax tablet instead - that's often given as a lungworm preventative.

I use Panacur 10% susp to cover the risk of lungworm.
1ml per 2kg for seven consecutive days.

Carole, thanks - I've used Panacur like that before, but it's so many days and my dogs hate the taste. I have to disguise it daily for several dogs for many days and it's just much easier to give one dose of Advocate. And the papers who use Panacur used different numbers of days - some just treat for 3, some for 5, some 7 and some 10 days. So I'm never sure exactly how many days of it I should give. BTW, do you have the sheep/goat/horse Panacur or do you just buy a lot of the Small Animal one for dogs?

It says to wait 4 days so as not to pollute the water course, but I think that's different to efficacy of the product.

What I might do is do Advocate, wait 5 days before swimming and then do lungworm faecal tests monthly for 2-3 months.

I don't have Milbemax and I do have Advocate... (both prescription).

It is definitely 7 days for lungworm - directions are half way down page 2 on the leaflet in the Dog/cat version.
Merry took a tiny dose every day for her lymphoma, I never had any trouble dosing her mixed either with Greek Yoghurt or a splodge of Butchers Tripe - but we are talking Beagle here. I have tasted it - chalky but not unpleasant, and I would take it myself if my cancer returned.

Sadly, after 11 months of apparently keeping the beast at bay, my lovely vintage girl suffered a metastasis to the brain and gently left us last Thursday.

I give our whippet a milbemax pill once a month.  no issue with water then

Carole, I'm sorry to hear about your girl :( I'm glad she went peacefully.

I think I see the confusion...

The Panacur 10% data sheet says:

>For the control of lungworm Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri in dogs administer 1 ml per 2 kg body weight for 7 consecutive days.

On this page: https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-479330

But Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri is not 'the' lungworm that is causing all the worry, that's a more obscure one. The one causing the worry is angiostrongylus vasorum. There is no info on the data sheet about how to use Panacur for angiostrongylus vasorum. There are a few different research papers, which all seem to show it's effective but have varying sample sizes (some pretty small) - and varying dosage rates, some just 3 days and some 10 days.

I am sorry Caroline.  She did well and I am glad it was a gentle passing

Thank you 1234. I have been under the illusion that I have been protecting my hounds against lungworm for several years now. It looks like I have some research to do.

So very sorry to hear this. My heartfelt sympathies Carol

>Thank you 1234. I have been under the illusion that I have been protecting my hounds against lungworm for several years now. It looks like I have some research to do.

Carole, it is still probably effective. Panacur is fenbendazole. If you google 'fenbendazole dosage lungworm dogs' you will get up various research papers where dogs have been treated with it for lungworm. In fact, it's the treatment of choice usually if they are infected for sure - vets seem to prefer it over Advocate and Milbemax for treatment.

It's just that the length of time used in the research varies from 5 days to 20 days and the dosage from 25mg/kg to 50mg/kg, and several papers say that more research needs to be done to find the optimal length of treatment and dosage. (50mg/kg is what you have been giving if following the osleri info on the data sheet, by the way.) But the good news is it seemed to work with all these dosages and lengths of treatment!

My guess is if you stick with the dosage of 50mg/kg, as you already use (which is the same as 1ml per 2kg of body weight - the Panacur datasheet helps you convert mg to ml) and pick a length of time towards the higher end of the studies - like your 7 days - then you will prob be fine.

But it does mean that you end up having to treat dogs for 7 days every month, which is quite a lot of Panacur to be getting through and is a bit of a pain if you have multiple dogs. I think this is why it's not really considered practical as a preventative (rather than as a treatment) for the general public. It would be great if they could find out if just 3 days is effective, that would be way more manageable...but I suspect there's not the money behind it.

Thanks 1234, I am OK with conversions - actually I used to work in pharmacy, 50 years ago when we made a proportion of the items we dispensed! I have used Panacur for its original purpose since around 1980, and more recently to check the progress of Merry's cancer. We are fortunate that in Fenbendazole we have such a safe, cheap and effective drug at our disposal - if it was newly discovered, the cost would be astronomical.

I agree totally. It is effective against so many different things and even better, it's non-prescription.

Milbemax is a preventative for lungworm if used monthly, if you miss a month or the dog is already infected then it's pancur for 7 days according to my vet. My neighbours dog had lungworm that caused significant damage so I treated all mine with 7 days of panacur and now give one milbemax a month. I buy the milbemax in bulk from the Netherlands without prescription.

chaumsong, can you give me the link where you get it from the Netherlands without a prescription? (message me if you prefer). thx!

The thing with Milbemax, is when it is used though, it says you have to give it once a week for 4 weeks. I wouldn't mind doing that if it were only the med needed for lungworm (the milbemycin oxime) but it is also praziquantel. Apparently the UK doesn't have a monovalent product which just has milbemycime oxime in it. I think there is one in the US.

So is it effective if you just give it once a month??

I did the same- bought a years supply from abroad last November. unfortunately I think Brexit has scuppered that for the future but if anyone does find a company still happy to post to the Uk I would like to know who they are please

An interesting article about lungworm

Could only manage 45 seconds of the video, as I want to keep my tea down!! Interesting article though.

One milbemax a month is the recommended preventative, but if you miss a month then you really have to do the 7 days of panacur to be safe, I've set an alarm on my phone for the 4th of each month. I bought mine from Kat&Hond, a few people on here bought from them, the bulk pack works out about £3 a pill. Last order I had was last November though, I have enough to last the whole year so not sure if things have changed with brexit!

Great thanks. What is the expiry date on the 50 tablets? How long do we have to use them!?

>An interesting article about lungworm

Jings it's riddled with them, that's in my area too, justifies the new worming regime I think.

> What is the expiry date on the 50 tablets? How long do we have to use them!?

Ah sorry, I don't actually know, I've thrown the boxes away and just kept the blister packs in my medicine tub.

I never bother about expiry dates, I'm still occasionally using a pack of metronidazole that was prescribed for a long dead borzoi 15 years ago

That particular one is fox lung worm which less common . Not all products do all the different lungworm that we potentially get

> I'm still occasionally using a pack of metronidazole that was prescribed for a long dead borzoi 15 years ago <img class="fsm fsm_lol" src="/images/epx.png" title="lol" alt="" />

I think, with respect, that's a tad extreme.  Not for nothing do packets etc. show an expiry date even if I've been known to use 'old' meds.too which I suspect we all do.