Just wondering if anybody has used Trevor Cooper for helping with the removal of endorsements- if so how good is Trevor?

Many Thanks

If properly applied whilst in physical possession of the person placing them, and with you informed, and having signed to confirm, then they will not be removed.

I have heard he is good although I don't know of anyone he who has used him about endorsements.

I would defernatly speak with him and find where you stand as you have the contract you signed that said the dog wasn't to be used in a breeding program (did it mention that the dog was endorsed?) But was later given a page about condition to lift them months after (did they sign this?).

But it doesn't sound very hopefully you from what you have said in your other posts.

I have accepted that the contract is concrete my only niggle is that the wording states I will consider lifting endorsements on tests been done - if you don’t want to lift endorsements don’t state when tests concluded I will lift it would save me a few hundred pounds but saying that she has lifted for other puppy parents she is only blocking because I am no longer in her click because I was warned of the negative side of her past.  I feel victimised.

Just to nitpick though, ‘consider’ doesn’t actually mean ‘will’ lift the endorsements. There’s their argument I’m afraid.

She told me that was to cover her just incase the results were borderline but as her results all came back clear - but guess we will find out monday after our consultation with Trevor Cooper.  The fact that she has lifted others and given no reason then it differs slightly.

Let us know what TC says. As I understand it though it is completely at the discretion of the breeder as to whether they lift as long as the endorsements have been applied correctly (I.e. you were told about them at the point of sale).

You might have this sorted now but thought I'd reply anyway.
I have used Trevor to have an endorsement removed and he was great!

I think though that it is all in the wording on the contract. I suspect that due to the word 'consider' you will probably struggle. In my contract the breeder wrote 'I have agreed to lift the endorsement on the condition of x, y and z'
I had fulfilled all the conditions and in my case the breeder was refusing to lift but was continuously adding new conditions and so was in breach of her contract.

The Kennel club will not get involved and will not lift any endorsement that has been placed correctly unless the breeder writes to them.  I even had their legal department agree that my breeder had breached her contract but they still wouldn't lift it!

Good luck!

I have such mixed feelings about endorsements now.

As a breeder, I've put them on two litters and had one person breed an unregistered litter without removing the endorsement or completing health testing. So they didn't prevent that dog getting bred.

As a buyer, I own one dog with endorsements on and I dislike feeling beholden to the breeder. The dog is completely unsuitable for breeding anyway, so I wouldn't be interested in breeding from her, but she doesn't feel 100% mine. Her breeder hasn't always run the health-tests she demands others now run if they want to breed (ie grandma and further back) and last year lifted endorsements for a family member who hadn't done anything with her dog - after the endorsements for the rest of the puppy buyers stipulate the considerable achievements which would be required to lift them. This might be all her prerogative but it just feels bad.

Looking around on CDs (puppy browsing!!), I see litters bred by really inexperienced breeders saying that 'endorsements will be placed' etc etc, and again it irks a bit to think of really inexperienced people who don't know one end of a dog from the other, putting endorsements on....!

My last dog, I've imported from abroad and it was greatly appealing that endorsements just wouldn't feature in that whole transaction.

So as a breeder, I'm really not sure what I would do in future. I think the whole subject is more complicated than just 'endorse everything'.

> I see litters bred by really inexperienced breeders saying that 'endorsements will be placed' etc etc, and again it irks a bit to think of really inexperienced people who don't know one end of a dog from the other, putting endorsements on....! <br />

One of the Rules of the Canadian BHC was that 'all immature stock would be endorsed'.    As this is a breed who 'develops' over maybe a longer period than some (most?) I totally agree with this.  Endorsements can always be lifted later on, perhaps subject to conditions on the Sale Contract?

I would expect to have endorsements on any puppy I buy and they have all been endorsed. Only 1 I wanted lifted and it was after I did the relevant health tests. I put endorsements on all the dogs I breed including any I keep. Only ever lifted 1 and that was for someone well versed in the breed, bitch turned out very nice, was shown and all health tests were done with good results.
For me just because someone is a good owner doesn't mean they will be a good breeder. They have to be well emersed in the breed for a start. For me it's easier to say I will never lift.

Thinking about this, the ONLY time I didn't put endorsements on 'immature stock' was when I sold two, one of each, to a fellow breeder.  BIG MISTAKE .... totally misplaced trust as after a year, she'd sold them to an overseas (European) breeder.  Had I been wiser, at least I should have put a not for export endorsement on both (let alone not for breeding!).   I had a take back stud clause on the male which obviously went pear shaped which was when I was rudely told the clause wasn't worth the paper it was written on.   She was clearly absolutely right there!

I never sold another puppy to a fellow breeder.  These were 2 of 4 surviving puppies from an original 9.  I'd kept the other two (dog and bitch).  Would that I'd placed the two I sold in pet homes.  Hindsight.

Frankie carried no endorsements.

I have endorsed every puppy I have bred (since 1995), including the ones I have kept.

I did so before most in my breed, and now it's routine by all as far as I know.

I have also mentored a number of my owners, or sold to fellow breeders, and endorsements have been lifted after health testing, and when the dog/bitch proved suitable, and importantly the would be breeder had the facilities and time to breed.

I refused to lift on one bitch that was health tested, as the bitch was a 6 year old maiden, and the owner was living in a touring Caravan on a campsite.

Sadly this owner, who has mental health issues, deliberately mated her to a Border Collie on the site.

When she couldn't cope with litter unsold at 8+ weeks, friends in the breed helped me rescue and home them.

So endorsements help protect the integrity of a breeders registered stock, but of course can't prevent them being bred from.

Unexpectedly.I lost my only breeding age bitch last year.

I have mentored someone with a bitch with my lines, mated to the Champion grandson of my last champion that I lost in April..

My new pup is 5 weeks old, and will carry endorsements.

These will be removed once Health testing complete.

As her sire is a Carrier for POAG, and Dam for prcd-PRA, breeding on has to be done with good knowledge and care.

I have plans in a few years to take the pup abroad for mating to a Clear male if all goes to plan.

Have you an update?

Off topic-glad you have a puppy in the offing. Your dogs are so beautiful & you have worked hard to produce such quality dogs

So pleased that you have a puppy of your breeding on the way. So precious, I wish you every success.

Going up by train on 10th, (ostensibly to choose) and picking up on 21st.

Been video calling, and stud owner visited this week, so have basically chosen, as there are only 3.