Hello.  puppies were born on Monday 10th May at 11.30am via c section. All was well. Mum's milk started coming in slowly and finally came in fully yesterday 13th May. They are sucking and padding well on mum, toileting after every feed, warm in the Incubator, nice and responsive once woken up. The only problem is weight loss!! There are 5 of them altogether and they all seem to be losing 20g a day. There has been NO weight gain from any since birth!! After they've been on mum every 2 hours from when they finish they have round tummies and go straight to sleep! I was trying to top up after but most weren't interested and wouldn't try. I rung the vet and she said try and put them on every hour in the day over the weekend and every 2 hours in the night over the weekend. Is there anything else I can do? Day 4 and they all weigh on average now 300g. Thank you

Is there a reason why they are not in with mum and are in an incubator? In the early days mine usually feed round the clock with naps in between.

I might expect some drop in weight after being C.Sectioned, but after 4 days, their weight should be picking up.  Is mum with them pretty much all the time at the moment, so when they feel the need to nurse, they can?  You talk about an incubator - why?   More relevant would be are they quiet... other than when nursing when some complaining will be heard as they drain each teat.

Not gaining weight could be worrying, but it is early days yet.   Is mum well, eating up etc?   Do you have a mentor you can contact for reassurance - may be more relevant than via a vet who may not have first-hand experience with whelping (other than doing the actual C.Section).   Many vets don't even have a dog, let alone know about breeding!!

I've been told because of her breed, they aren't the best with maternal instinct and they have a habit to be clumsy and squash/suffocate puppies unintentionally. They are in the Incubator for warmth. I've started to feed every hour now. 20 minutes on and then 40 minute break until we start again. Hopefully this will help put on weight through the weekend. Mum is eating well. Im feeding her little and often. She's a bit fussy, so I try and mix it up. I'll be trying more of a raw diet to see if this helps milk production.

Oh and no crying, unless I wake them and they want feeding straightaway!! I have the stud dogs owners who I contact too

They are much better with mum with a heat pad or heat lamp. Supervision is important but she will not squash them if you are constantly supervising them. I would guess that if they were in with mum they would feed more and gain more weight.

Oh for goodness' sake, put the puppies with their mother! Mothering is about far more than providing milk!

Experiments with monkeys famously showed that monkeys prefer a soft and cuddly mother over a hard-wire 'mother' even when the hard wire mother had the milk and the soft cuddly one didn't! Experiments with rats show that the rats who got licked and loved and nuzzled by their mothers, survived better, grew better and had a better response to stress in the future. Mothering is not about just giving puppies milk. Would you think that for a human baby, we can just prop a bottle up on a cot and it will be as good as a real human who reacts to the baby's needs? Very tragically Romanian orphanages have shown us that's not the case....

You don't have a physical problem, you have a 'failure to thrive'. Puppies that feel loved, grow better. End of. And you're a human with a bottle, not a dog. There's a reason why orphaned pups do better with a foster mother than with hand-rearing...

IMO you are being extremely cruel to the pups to deprive them of a constant 24/7 mother and you are also, as a breed, not going to produce better mothers by refusing to allow them a chance to learn how to BE mothers - this is going to continue to be passed on through the generations.

> Oh for goodness' sake, put the puppies with their mother! Mothering is about far more than providing milk! <br />

This, and the rest of what 1 - 4 has written is totally what I'd agree with.

And having had a low to ground breed, there was always a very real possibility of squashing going on - but with careful supervision I never lost one to over-laying.  We had pig rails round 3 sides of the box to help prevent this too.

FYI you are comparing totally different species which have different thought processes!
I'm not CRUEL as I asked for advice as being a first time breeder (before you come at me for that, I bred my bitch who is a CHAMPIONS daughter, to a CHAMPION stud, for health). I was TOLD that you need to keep them seperate by every  breeder of this breed I know!! Every dog of this breed I know doesn't seem deprived of anything, so thank you for your pointless Darwin theory trying to belittle me!

Neo natal puppies need an on demand milk constant supply, not at set periods of time, it's the stimulus of their suckling that increases the production of the bitch's milk. If you do not allow the puppies free access to suckling & the attention of their mother you will affect the bitch's ability to increase the milk for her puppies.
This is the same for all mammals not just the Canine species.

Yes. And that's what I'm trying to do. I leave the puppies on my girl until she decides to go onto the sofa. I then put the puppies in the Incubator for the warmth! My girl them becomes interested again when she goes up to the Incubator, so I take them out again and put them on her, until again she leaves. It's a circle and I've stayed up and I'm happy to, in order for them all to get what they need! I will never trap my girl in the Whelping box! She has free reign and if she's had enough, she's had enough! I work with her! Thankfully the puppies are putting on weight, so there doesn't need to be anymore comments!!!

> I asked for advice

And you've been given excellent advice from experienced breeders, I would take it, ditch the incubator, put pups in with Mum and stay there with her

I dont think anyone traps their bitch in the welping box but makes sure the pups are warm and comfortable and with mum as much as possible .

Out of interest can the pups not stay I the whelping box with a heat pad or heat lamp and then its easier for mum to pop in and out?
I do know a lot of this breeds breeders do it the same way as you and wondered why? If she can get in and out of the whelping box as a choice then why not leave them in the box?

Trap their bitch in the whelping box - LOL (except that's sad).    Our whelping box consisted of two 4 X 4 sections, the one section we used initially and that had a low rail at the front over which our bitches could get out, but not the puppies at that point.  It had a brood lamp over the top and pig rails.  Once the puppies were moving around the moved the one 4 X 4 section out of the separate room mums were in while nursing their litters, into the kitchen and added the second 4 X 4 section making a large 8 X 4 area, suitable for big Basset puppies.  That second section had a hinged door at the end and yes, it meant we had to let mum out as and when needed - but by that time, the puppies weren't constantly nursing - weaning had begun.

I don't know what people OP had been talking to but I've never heard of people doing litters with the puppies in an incubator, unless by chance, mum wasn't happy to be with her puppies.  If I had a bitch like that, I'd not take another litter from her and actually with one, she hated her puppies crawling by her head and I had to watch her constantly.  She wasn't like that with her first litter and that second litter was def. her last.  I tended not to take more than two litters from our girls, if that.  Generally speaking I got what I wanted for the next generation, in one litter.

ps  My breed is low to the ground and as heavy as a Bulldog would be too.

I quote from your post

I've started to feed every hour now. 20 minutes on and then 40 minute break until we start again

What you have written infers you are feeding the puppies not the bitch

As to the incubator I know some breeders of brachephilic dogs use them(there was one case of the incubator + pups being stolen), but didn't think this breed's breeders did this(well not the experienced breeders I know, one who is a top breeder)

Is it just me thinking that if a breed is not robust enough to thrive outside an incubator as new borns maybe that breed needs to go extinct?

I think you’re absolutely right and I feel the same about AI where it relates to this. We now interfere so much in everything.

I hope the lady who posted this has now got pups in with mum round the clock to stimulate her milk. Same in humans, it’s skin to skin that gets the hormones going.

Just think about this breed in general - the number of breeders making huge incomes from them, starting their own clubs to make the non standard colours look legit, having their own shows with titles worth nothing officially, it's all a cash making exercise. Of course the majority will do AI and use incubators - it's quicker and easier for them. No need to break your back during a natural mating, no need to stay with your bitch 24/7 to ensure she doesn't squash her pups. I am NOT saying this is how the OP sees it (I wouldn't know) but I can easily see that it's been the advice they've been given.

Yes we've thankfully managed to do that now. She has her freedom and comes to feed when she needs and they have now been putting on enough weight! Usually because of their clumsy nature, I guess breeders feel it's safer and less of a risk to seperate to avoid accidents (that's what I was told anyway). I'm lucky that my girl is actually very cautious and knows where the puppies are, so she moves in a way that is out of the puppies way. It's just when she's asleep I have to keep more of an eye on them because she's a sound sleeper, she won't know what she's doing if she rolls, but the pig rails are obviously there too

Doing that was just what I was told. I have a Whelping box with a heat lamp and obviously pig rails that seems to be doing well. Mum can get in and out easily and comes back to them often, even if it's just to check.
That's a shame about your girl not being as happy with her second litter, but as you said you were able to watch her and you got a good next generation. I do love Bassetts too

Wow! So you're judging by 3 weeks of life to just eradicate the breed! They don't have to be in an incubator if you read, I did it for safety because I was told and since changed because I listened to HELPFUL comments, not just someone coming into be rude! Do you think about the same as babies who have to be in incubators to save them, or do you think they should just be left to die?!

Oh yes! I understand what you mean! I'm totally against these colours. They have been bred in an awful way to achieve these 'fad' colours and they aren't even healthy or in my mind a proper pedigree because of the interbreeding to get the colour! I've bred standard colour with all the health tests and the sire is the 2019 crufts Bob winner! I've seen some coloured bulldogs with a price tag of £10,000 which I can't justify. It seems its just a status symbol of look at my unusual colour dog. I only did the Incubator for safety (as a first time breeder). I've since changed the set up like everyone said and all parties seem happy, they have put on weight too

I generally feel that we as breeders, with our often very spoilt girls, often not bred from until very mature and set in their comfortable ways, have to work harder to encourage 'natural instincts' that domestication and lifestyle have muted.

This is why so many bitches are torn between their maternal duties, and their attachment to us.

I find it best to encourage in every way possible the maternal bond.

I stay with rhe girls (not only for safety), feed them in the whelping box, and praise and encourage them when they  show correct maternal behaviour.

The more relaxed and focussed they are the better the rearing goes.