My shihtzu has been walking a bit odd and this morning her back leg went stiff and went forward close up to her body. She's been having problems getting up steps for a couple of weeks on and off. Anyway we had a visit to vets and she said it's a neurological problem. It's only slight and she has put her on medication for 2 weeks. She has suggested she sees a neurologist for an mri scan. She's 8 in October. Anyone experienced this please

I do find it odd how vets can diagnose neurological problems from a visit.  If it were me I would be trying a qualified canine chiropractor first to get their opinion.  Hope it's something and nothing Maggie.

> I do find it odd how vets can diagnose neurological problems from a visit.

I'd expect any vet worth his salt should be able to suspect what's going on, then confirmed by x-ray or MRI (the latter perhaps depending on what the x-ray shows).   This was the case with Frankie although knowing what the MRI would probably tell us, it was a case of 'what then' given his age at the time, and our financial resources.

Another of our home-bred hounds (which Frankie was not) went off his back legs at 8 - spondylitis, confirmed by x-ray.   He was in pain and my then trusted vet back up East, didn't hold out much hope for him.  I told her I wanted to give him time, provided we could sort out the pain.  He was on PLT tablets which did the trick.  He eventually got up, sort of and lived another 4 years before old age claimed him.  My message is, unless you want to go for MRI and can afford that, to give your dog time, rest and pain relief for anything he's feeling and hopefully he will make a reasonable recovery.  Depending of course, what the root problem is.

You might consider acupuncture?  And perhaps later on, hydrotherapy.   If this is a disc problem, surgery may be needed.

> give your dog time, rest and pain relief

This is what I would do too.

I think rest, pain relief and time is probably the best thing to try - and then the MRI. After that you will have a diagnosis and can then ask us if anyone has experienced it before... otherwise it could be 55 thousand things....

The vet said an xray wouldn't show up anything to do with nerves. She has put her on gallaprant 100mg to be taken every 8 hrs. She has 5 days worth but doesn't have to see vet for another 14 days. I do have insurance but not sure it cover mri and it won't cover that and. An operation. The vet said the mri is 3000 and an op is 4000 If needed. So hopefully she improves.

if you decide to go down the MRI/surgical route it is worth asking your vet whether there are cheaper places to go.  one of my dogs needed complex surgery and when I expressed horror at the price they said they would look into it-and found another excellent place to refer her to that was a lot cheaper

>I do find it odd how vets can diagnose neurological problems from a visit.

There's a very simple test that even pet owners can do to see if a movement problem is neurological; by supporting the dog you turn each foot upside down, one at a time, so that it's standing on the top of its toes instead of its pads. If the nerves are sending the correct message to the brain the dog will instantly turn its foot the right way up. If there's a problem with the message getting through (ie a neurological problem) the dog will either delay turning its foot or simply won't notice there's a problem and stay like that. Very quick and simple. The difficult bit is determining the cause of the neurological problem.

I agree jeangenie a good vet will be able to do check as you describe. Brooke was slightly different as responded normally to those checks. It wasn't until a few days passed and she didn't improve on metacam, actually got worse , my vet decided we need a neurological referral. She was bang on as the reason it was intermittent was similar to sciatica and there was a tumour was intermittently pressing on a nerve .
Highly unlikely to be the same here as its quite unusual apparently but overall I would believe.
In our case insurance paid for investigations and no mri etc arnt cheap so I would do some research for those yourself . By the time you get the referral you will see if it is a one off or continues so can decided what to do . I doubt a competent vet would be sending you off for an mri willy nilly . in my experience they arnt quick to go down these routes unless a good reason. Unfortunately over the years we have had a couple for different problems neither . Unfortunately cheaper investigations dont show nerves.

In my recent experience those prices are correct. Our insurance covered up to 7K so out came the credit card . GIven she isnt seeing a vet for a coule of weeks you can see how things go and do some ringing about for pricing. I am sure if you don't know people to speak to either your vet will or those with experience of MRI if you tell us your rough geographic area will be able to suggest referral vets. . Again Ive found my vets really good about who to speak to just for a rough estimate an dihvae rung around over the years for things

It is a lot of money when you think my daughter had a private mri scan to detect a brain tumor. That cost her 500 pounds. See what the vet says in 2 weeks

There is only two places that do mri that I can see. One in Winchester hants and one in Reading. Berkshire which is what the vet suggested

By comparison yes very expensive but u do need general anesthesia for animals and after care while theu recover which explains part of.the costs.
My previous fcr had her mri for a tumour at the local human hospital.as at the time there were no mri available at that referral.vet
I do hope.yoir daughter was ok or at least has recovered well

Yes it's been a couple of years. Her tumour was removed and she's doing good. Thank you

Depends in how far u can travel amd if their prices make it worth while of course
North downs referral vets  in Surrey. Godstone referral vets also surrey  Davis vets in Hertfordshire and there is another not far from the new forest    Anderson moores are the ones in Winchester I belive .
I am sure there are others as well

Fitzpatricks referrals do MRIs too. We went there.

Prior to lockdown, our vets had a visiting mobile MRI unit that set up in the car park on a roughly monthly basis. I must admit that I haven't seen it for a while but the car park has been being used for consultations for the last year.

A friend had a MRI scan on her giant breed's elbow about 3 years ago. It was £1400. Her husband had a private hospital MRI on his knee at a similar time. It was £800. Why so much difference?

Yep I forgot.them 1234  .if u Google.tje area u want to.cover amd add mri there a whole list to investigate . Far.more than I realised

General anesthetic and after care account for some of it. The rest ?

Re x-ray not showing nerves per se - it will show whether there is some structural abnormality which would be pressing on the spinal column.    As was the case with our Ben and his spondylitis.  At his age, just 8, and general health, we opted to give him time.  We would have been prepared to do the same with Frankie, but for him, going off his back legs was by no means his only trouble.   Very sadly.

And yes re the 'return' of the paws when checked, which any vet, and even you, would do initially.

Yes the vet did that with the paws

> General anesthetic and after care account for some of it. The rest ?

Time is a big part.  MRIs can take several hours, especially if they don't know roughly what they're looking for.  Ren's took 3 hours because we had a rough area to look at, which showed nothing, so then then did her whole spine.  That's 3 hours under GA, plus pre-GA sedation, plus post-GA counter injection.  They're also reading the results at the time, not sending them elsewhere to be looked at so you're paying for the whole service in one go.

What I don't understand is the massive cost difference between referral centres.  Ren and Faolan were both scanned at an outpatient MRI centre, at a fixed cost of £1152 each.  But while I was looking around, costs were quoted between £1200 and £3500 for the same thing.  That is absurd.

River and Paige were both scanned at a referral hospital and they were £1500 each.

Nikita- thats exactly what I mean- it really is worth asking about as prices really do vary considerably for the same thing

We only have two within the area just under 1hr away one charges 3000 the other 3500

We only have two within the area just under 1hr away one charges 3000 the other 3500

Fitzpatricks was around £2500.

A few things - there are different powered MRI machines. All MRI machines are not equal and don't give the same images. The better ones are more expensive to purchase... much.

And perhaps some quotes are adding in hospitalisation, sedation for the day, monitoring afterwards etc etc whilst some quotes are just literally giving the MRI price?

I wouldn't expect an MRI scan for an animal to be less than £1500.

The vet put her on gabapentin for 2 weeks but it made no difference so we are waiting for a. Call from the referral vet for mri.

Hopefully the mri will give some idea of what the problem is

Hello
Before spending a lot of money on an MRI, I would recommend doing an all breed health DNA test with someone like Embark (it’s the Embark for Breeders test), which when on offer is $99 plus around £12 recorded delivery to the US to send the swabs back. What you hve described sounds like DM, it’s possibly not been identified as a key breed issue but that might be because a dog affected by the DM gene might not always show symptoms. We spent a lot of money investigating that a few years ago and not one person suggested it. Only considered spinal, hip and arthritis issues. It might not be that but it could help.
Edited to add you can easily test for DM as a single condition in the UK with any of the labs (I have used Laboklin) but an all panel will test for a few hundred conditions and could bring up something else worth knowing. Good luck.

> The vet put her on gabapentin for 2 weeks but it made no difference so we are waiting for a. Call from the referral vet for mri.

When poor old Frankie went off his back legs, he was given Gabapentin but I saw no improvement either.  He was on max. Metacam too.  On the other hand, Gab. helped me when I had a lot of pain down my back legs.  I'm now down to just one tab. a day now.  I keep trying to take myself off that one but never feel good when I do - perhaps it's just the placebo effect of one tablet

Sometimes taking these various pills do make a difference however.  It just wasn't meant to be, for him.

What symptoms of DM is the dog showing apart from the difficulty getting up?

.

Signs of Degenerative Myelopathy in Dogs

Swaying in the hind end when standing
Easily falls over if pushed
Wobbling
Knuckling of the paws when trying to walk
Feet scraping on the ground when walking
Abnormally worn toenails
Difficulty walking
Difficulty getting up from a sitting or lying position
Falling down when walking or standing
Inability to walk
Paralysis of the hind limbs


The way the original poster describes it is exactly how this started in our dog. I’m just offering an alternative that initially is much lower cost and if it is that, could save a huge expense trying to identify it, as was our case.

Dm also shows in very similar ways to laryngeal paralysis. 
The main difference being that the dog begins to have breathing issues as well as hind limb problems .
Not big ones or even ones you might take to the vet at first. Maybe panting  more than usual especially when hot or after exercise and then it becomes more frequent.
Its often missed altogether as people just say he is an older dog.
It was a chance comment from a vet acquaintance that alerted me just as we were about to be referred for mri and various other tests . My own vet was able to check and confirm diagnosis

Thank you, that’s very interesting and good to know.

She crosses her back legs occasionally. Her back feet are a bit slow so there is a bit of dragging. She doesn't always want to walk Vet says her response was a bit slow when she did the knuckle test.
She doesn't have problems getting up.
Doesn't fall over.
The vet says there is a bit of discomfort around the middle of her back but she never makes any sound when I touch her
I guess I won't know till she has mri, I just pray it's something that can be fixed

> On the other hand, Gab. helped me when I had a lot of pain down my back legs.

This tickled me.

I also sometimes refer to body parts/conditions in people in canine terms.

Presumably  mb front legs were fine !

DM is painless BTW so she wouldn't react to pressure or examination of her back.

You could ask to be referred to a McTimoney Practitioner

> On the other hand, Gab. helped me when I had a lot of pain down my back legs.<br />This tickled me.

Oooh -  I didn't realise I'd typed that   It should have been the back of my legs

Thank you., that makes me feel a bit better. I'm waiting to her from Southern Counties vets Ringwood

Heard from them today. Got my appointment
For 10th June

I would also do a DM dna test, it's only £66 from laboklin, a simple cheek swab that you do yourself and you'll get the results in under 2 weeks.

If you phone or email for swabs tomorrow and send them straight back you'll get the result before your MRI appointment, which you could cancel if it is DM.

I would not cancel the MRI if it was my dog. Genetic DM testing is not definitive and this breed is prone to a lot of spinal problems that will show up on MRI. Even an ‘at risk’ result doesn’t mean the dog’s current problems would be DM. Stopping on a walk with a back leg going stiff and then lifting it close to the body is not consistent with DM. It could be something that’s not related to the neurological condition, such as luxating patella, but IVDD for example is much more common in the breed.