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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Male stud advice
- By mkane [gb] Date 26.04.21 21:33 UTC Edited 27.04.21 11:07 UTC
My male [breed removed] has just turned 1. A number of people familiar with his breed [breed removed] have commented on him being a lovely example of the breed and have asked if we have considered breeding him.

This is not a decision I would take lightly and as a fairly new dog owner I was hoping for some advice on factors I should consider before moving forward with this. For example, does breeding change the temperament of a male dog. What health checks etc should we have carried out on our dog before offering him as stud, what checks should we expect a potential mate to have carried out and so on.
I feel our dog is a bit young to be bred at the moment....what age is acceptable? And where locally can we get some advice/support on the matter if we do decide to move forward? We are in Northern Ireland.

Many thanks
- By suejaw Date 26.04.21 23:16 UTC Upvotes 2
Have you spoken to his breeder? That's your 1st port of call as he may have breeding restrictions on his pedigree. Have a chat and see what they think and you can discuss health testing and what's required with them. If restrictions on his pedigree then only the breeder can lift that
- By JoStockbridge [gb] Date 27.04.21 00:00 UTC Edited 27.04.21 11:05 UTC Upvotes 1
As above your first port of call is your boys breeder. They are best places to advise you on testing, potential lines he may work well with or that are best to avoid, if he Is endorsed what conditions you must meet for them to lift.

Is he endorsed? If he is his breeder would have to lift it for his puppies to be registered.

Health testing - check with the breed club what needs to be done.

The bitch owner should have the litter screened for eye disease so you should make sure any bitch owner plans to do this.

Breeding him could have an effect on his temperament yes. Some males will mark, not tolerate other males as well and be looking for bitches, but some males are fine. You won't know if it will effect your boy until it's happens.

You would need to learn the maiting process as the bitch owner will be looking to you to get a safe maiting. Dogs can get injured during the maiting, bitches can panic or snap out, and some boys can struggle getting it right. I would suggest the book of the bitch.

Have you ever shown him? If you haven't I'd suggest looking into it when they start back as showing will help teach you what his good points and weak points are.
- By Ann R Smith Date 27.04.21 00:35 UTC Edited 27.04.21 11:06 UTC Upvotes 1
Firstly all breeding dogs(regardless of breed or sex) should be hip & elbow scored.

Health testing - check with the breed club what needs to be done.

Yes using a dog at stud can(& does) affects a dog's behaviour.

Only the very best quality healthy dogs should be bred from, the aim of breeding pedigree dogs should always be the improvement of the breed.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 27.04.21 07:01 UTC
The answer to this have already mainly been given but to add my comment ...

It's flattering to have your dog favourably commented on and to be asked whether he can be used at stud.   However as said, the first person to ask about this is his breeder and as all responsible breeders will put an endorsement re breeding on the immature stock they sell, have that endorsement lifted if in his breeder's opinion, he IS a good quality dog.

Yes, once used males can very often change, if only to start looking for the next bitch!  And fact is even if he is a good example of his breed, confirmed by significant show wins which as shows have been curtailed at the moment, is unlikely to be the case, most people would go to his sire rather than to your unproven dog.  And breeders tend to use a promising dog on one of their own bitches, carefully chosen so they don't double up on faults, (which all dogs have good examples or not), before offering them at public stud, if at all.  And you'd have to have sufficient knowledge of the bitch, bloodlines and visually, to be able to hope that any offspring are good and be ready to refuse any approach too.    We turned away more people wanting to use our males, than accepted them, to protect our bloodline and more relevant, the breed.

And then, as already stated, there's the need to do all the relevent testing for the breed, some of which may not be possible yet (his current age).

With respect, I'd accept the good comments on your dog you have from others, but just continue to enjoy him as the great pet he obviously is.

ps  If he's that good, his breeder might be interested in using him ..... but even then, he may change, once used.
- By furriefriends Date 27.04.21 07:24 UTC
Another question i would ask myself is why do I want to use him ?
Is because he is a good example and I want another like him ?
Are u considering beginning to breed and may be looking to have a bitch in the future ?
There can be many answers to the questions which should be considered very honestly. 
Using your dog means u are part responsible for any puppies and their well being.  Are u happy with that ?
If u  want another like him I would speak to his breeder and see if its possible to have another dog of his lines rather than breed .
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 27.04.21 09:40 UTC Edited 27.04.21 09:53 UTC

> Using your dog means u are part responsible for any puppies and their well being.  Are u happy with that ?<br />


"If u  want another like him I would speak to his breeder and see if its possible to have another dog of his lines rather than breed ."

Both very sensible question to be answered.  The owner of the stud dog is 50% responsible for what happens to the puppies he sires.   Ethically if not physically.   And bear in mind, from experience, if ANYTHING goes wrong with the puppies he's involved in (sired), ten to one it's the stud dog that gets the 'blame'.

Totally agree with going back to the breeder for another puppy if you want another (bearing in mind no two dogs will ever be 'the same') rather than allowing him to contribute to the dog population.
- By Admin (Administrator) Date 27.04.21 11:08 UTC
Should I offer my dog for stud?
- By onetwothreefour Date 27.04.21 11:24 UTC Upvotes 3

>This is not a decision I would take lightly and as a fairly new dog owner I was hoping for some advice on factors I should consider before moving forward with this.


I don't want to cause offence, but as a 'fairly new dog owner', I'd suggest it's best not to be planning on breeding. Any bitch owner coming to you expects not only that your dog can do the deed which is worth their money, but also that you can achieve the mating, assist and ensure the dog is able to mount, understand when a bitch is protesting but doesn't really mean it versus a bitch which really isn't ready and should not be mated... and so on. As a 'fairly new dog owner' you are unlikely to have acquired the experience needed to be able to provide someone who is paying you, with all that.

>For example, does breeding change the temperament of a male dog.


Sometimes. Sometimes a dog may become reactive towards other entire males, perceiving them as threats. Sometimes a dog may become less reactive because they feel more secure in their identity. Sometimes a dog may become more distracted or ignore recalls if they can smell a bitch in heat. Sometimes they get better at knowing where a bitch is in her cycle and are not distracted during the rest of it. And so on. The fact is that every dog is an individual and will be affected differently and it's not really possible to predict.

>What health checks etc should we have carried out on our dog before offering him as stud, what checks should we expect a potential mate to have carried out and so on.


This is a breed specific question, because the health tests which are required for each breed, differ. Contact your breed club for advice. Look at puppy adverts from reputable breeders (some of which may advertise on CDs but not all breeders who advertise on CDs are reputable, so be warned) and see what tests they do.

>I feel our dog is a bit young to be bred at the moment....what age is acceptable?


Yes 1yo is far too young, he is not even out of adolescence yet and you don't even know what his adult temperament, personality, health tests and potential are. 2yo should be the minimum.

>And where locally can we get some advice/support on the matter if we do decide to move forward? We are in Northern Ireland.


I'm not sure what advice or support you're looking for, but if your own breeder can't provide it, there aren't any sources of it other than some excellent books and online resources. Certainly nothing locally to anyone.

You haven't really said WHY you want to breed your dog? Unlike the owner of the bitch, you are not going to whelp and raise puppies (which for some reason is what appeals to people most). Someone is going to bring a bitch to your house for 'service' twice - and they pay you a not-very-huge fee - and that's it. Frankly, unless you are really into showing or breeding towards a particular goal, I just can't really see why you'd want to do it. They may or may not allow you to buy one of the puppies, that would be a separate arrangement. And the cost of doing all the health testing is probably going to be more than one stud fee anyway.
- By chaumsong Date 27.04.21 11:29 UTC Upvotes 1

> have commented on him being a lovely example of the breed and have asked if we have considered breeding him. <br />


If you're talking about people you meet in the street, while out walking, in my experience this is just one of those things people say, like oh what a beautiful baby :grin:

> does breeding change the temperament of a male dog.


It can do, as an example my import boy was typical of all silkens, he loved me and would never be far away from me, he's off lead every day in different busy parks but never far away, he had an excellent recall, I can call him off deer etc... until he was used at stud. A few weeks after he was used the first time we met an in-season bitch down the country park! Obviously my boy was very interested, I had to put him on his lead to get him away from her, I walked for about 20 minutes in the opposite direction of the bitch then let him off lead, he spun around and raced off after her! He'd never done anything like this before, he's a sighthound, and a fast racer, he was out of sight in seconds. I started back the same way, calling and calling. About 10 minutes later my phone rang, it was the bitches owner, they had my boy at the opposite end of the park and had got my number off his tag. Thankfully they kept a hold of him until I got there. It was an awful experience, if they'd left the park he would have followed across the road I'm sure, they could have stolen him, he could have got lost. I had to have him neutered after he'd sired 3 litters (enough for our gene pool) and he's back to being the reliable mummy's boy he was before.
- By weimed [gb] Date 27.04.21 11:55 UTC Upvotes 4
not worth the stress.
what would you get out of it? 
not much money as the costs of all his health tests would add up . and casual flattering comments does not add up to firm bookings- you could fork out for loads of tests and not get one booking
the need to study bitches health tests/pedigrees to make sure not a dreadful match- rather more effort there then I would fancy.
loads of hassle of bitch owners wanting you to drop everything as their dog is finally 'ready'
possibility of personality change for the worse
possibility of injury to your dog
ANYTHING wrong with the mating/the pregnancy/the birth/the health of pups and your boy will get the blame
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 27.04.21 12:08 UTC Upvotes 1
Again with the flattering comments - if I had a pound for every similar comment I had with my much missed boy, I'd be rich.  Honestly.   But he was NOT a candidate for being a stud dog.
- By weimed [gb] Date 28.04.21 09:16 UTC Upvotes 1
ps and forget 'pick of the litter'   . That always ends in tears- the stud fee is FAR cheaper then the cost of a puppy so no one with experience is going to let you have a puppy as a fee. Even if they agree at the time they will change their minds once realise the price difference- or even if go through with it may want to keep same pup you want- ie if you both want a girl and there is only one girl in litter.   Pick of litter ends in huge rows. 
If you would like a second dog related to your dog its a hell of a lot easier to go back to your boys breeder
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 28.04.21 10:52 UTC
Was a time when the cost of a stud was equal to the cost of one or perhaps two puppies.  Not necessarily pick however unless the owner of the bitch happened to want a male from the litter, and so the best female might be available in lieu of the stud fee, and vice versa.   I know in my own breed that matings between breeders quite often didn't involve the exchange of cash however.

Personally I never went into any such arrangements.   I took a stud fee at the time of the service (unless my stud dog was unproven in which case I'd wait until there was a litter on the ground).  If I was in the market for a new puppy, and I was interested in that particular mating, I'd  maybe go look and pay for the puppy, independently from any stud fee arrangement.  As it happened, I never did that as the numbers I kept were limited and I restricted my 'new puppy' to one from a mating I'd done at home, strictly for the next generation.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 28.04.21 13:44 UTC

> Firstly all breeding dogs(regardless of breed or sex) should be hip & elbow scored.


And eye tested.

Even breeds where eye conditions not previously known can find they do have an issue.

This happened when a good friend took her 2 bitches to an eye testing clinic run by our ringcraft ( this was decades ago) and both had hereditary cataracts, now recognised as a breed issue.

Re Elbows, many breeds do not score as it's seen as a mainly large breed issue.

I have chosen to do mine, but it's not considered an issue in my breed, but with our low numbers I believe it is wise to do so.

Of many hundreds scored in Scandinavia there have been fewer than half a dozen 0/1's all US stats show 100% Zero, and the few in UK also zero.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 28.04.21 13:59 UTC
Stud fees in relation to puppy price vary hugely between breeds.

In my breed the stud fee has always been the price of a puppy.

Then again most males, even champions are never used at stud. Of those that are most may only sire a couple of litters in their lifetime. Half a dozen litters would be a well used dog in the last couple if decades.

You'd be lucky to cover your health testing costs in one stud fee in many breeds.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Male stud advice

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