Hello,

I'd love to get a perspective from breeders, I'm asking this question from a genuine place and intend no ill-will or offence, I have great respect for the amount of work that goes into properly caring for and raising litters and their parents.

I'm currently looking to welcome a Shiba to my home - and have watched the price of Shiba puppies almost double over lockdown from when I started looking last year, sitting at around £4500 on average now. I'm a serious buyer, and have taken a lot of care to prepare for this decision, but I am now facing the possibility that I will be unable to afford a puppy at the current market rate.

With this being a sudden hike in price, and the puppy boom likely to slow down as the UK opens back up, is it appropriate to discuss the price of puppies with breeders? Outside of this year I would not have ever imagined it, and have saved over £3000 intended for a puppy, so it's not my intention to undercut anybody. But with the prices as they are now, it's starting to feel like a pipe dream.

Again, I have no intent to offend and want to respect the breeders I reach out to, and hate to put a 'maximum price' on a life in a devaluing way. I would love to her your professional perspectives as this year is an anomaly in so many ways.

Many thanks,
Grace

Are the breeders you have contacted members of the breed club?

Good Breeders, those that show, and breed primarily to maintain their bloodlines and the welfare of the breed that I am aquainted with in my own and other breeds have not hiked their prices to ridiculous levels.

Sadly such breeders are less common than the ones who have jumped on the bandwagon.

It is those who were previously cheaper, on the lower end of the quality spectrum in popular breeds that now are charging the high prices.

I recently found a breeder and litter for a friend through breed club contacts in a popular breed, champion sire, bitch shown with respectable results, all the DNA, Orthopaedic and clinical health screening on both parents.  Expected to pay £1500 - £2000, she charged my friend £1500.

Someone who had used a good stud dog on a working line pet bitch told me £3000 - £4000 with only Hips and Elbows tested on the bitch!!!

My own breed 2 years ago £850, last year mostly £900 - £950 , with just 2 charging more. Now breeders have agreed to keep to £1000.

Speak to the club secretary to see what respected breeders are charging.

Many thanks for your reply - I believe they are a mix - some club members and some non, so that is a great piece of advice!

I'm hunting around for a Shiba club but can't find any definite official club, i'll keep digging and maybe search for some breeders through them.

I really appreciate the advice, it's all a bit hectic out on the puppy market at the moment!

It appears the club is now running on Facebook and not the website now

https://m.facebook.com/thejapaneseshibainuclubofgreatbritain/

Website says temporarily disabled so it might be back. I would look at show breeders personally

Although I agree the first place to look is the breed club if u can. Have u look at the breeder section here and chatted to them ?

Thank goodness I'm no longer breeding (retired) given what's happening to the market out there.   Was a time when the leading breeder went to £1K for his puppies in my main breed and that was 'shock horror' even if he was producing top quality puppies.   Now all and sundry (BYBs) are asking (are they getting?) £3K and upwards and going by the photos shown, they are very ho-hum puppies.   I read somewhere that breeders put a figure in their adverts, but 'are prepared to haggle'.   That did NOT happen in my day.  To think I sold my final litter for £400 (the going rate) and even then, the good home was foremost in my mind.    We paid £800 for our Frankie, bought at 4 months as a 'show hopeful', in 2010.   He came from a breeder I'd known for as long as I'd been in the breed.

By all means discuss the price!!   As things ease and supply goes back to outweighing demand, prices should come back down again - but who knows.   We live in such troubled times and I have a feeling that although we may see less crazy prices being asked, I don't think things will go back to where they were, pre-Covid.

Things may change too, once the Shows start up again = reputable breeders will be breeding again.

Responsible breeders are between a rock and a hard place. They are the ones who put their lives on hold while they raise a carefully planned litter. They are the ones who have carefully researched the pedigrees and health test results for not just the parents but grandparents, great grandparents etc. They are the ones who offer lifetime support for the new (carefully vetted) owners. Is it reasonable to expect them to sell their puppies at a lower price than the lower quality pups? Many breeders would like to keep the price down, but for many there’s the worry that by selling puppies at a more reasonable price they run the risk of the owner selling the pup on at an inflated price. Those type of people don’t come with “con artist” tattooed across their forehead, they are very clever and devious people. You only have to look at how the puppy farmers have manipulated new owners by setting up a “home” where they claim puppies are raised.

If you attend an auction it is recommended that you set your price (one you can afford) and you never bid above that price. I think that applies to buying a puppy too. The price (at the moment) may be above the limit you have set yourself but keep in mind that the asking price is only part of the financial burden of buying a puppy.  I can not help thinking that all the time people will push themselves to reach the ever increasing target, then certain breeders will keep hiking those prices up. I doubt very much that prices will return to what they were pre-pandemic but they will level off or even fall as/if things get back to normal. Already, Rescue Centers and Breed Rescue are starting to see an increase in dogs needing a new home. The bubble has to burst at some point.  Personally, I would bide my time. You've waited this long, so take a deep breath and see what happens in the next 12 months. I hope there is a breeder out there somewhere that will have a reasonably priced puppy with your name on it

looking at the average prices shown in cd for this breed and given all you have said epmp is £4500 realistic or as in other breeds some of the responsible breeders are selling at higher prices than before but not too that extent ?

It seems to vary significantly from breed to breed now where as before a lot of breeds sold for similar prices

Personally I would wait and see what happens.

By waiting and it maybe another year or possibly longer but hopefully things will level out

Yes you have put it so eloquently! I don't seek to undervalue life, but I worry about taking part in the ever increasing price bubble. A dog is invaluable with the value it brings to life,  and I'd set thousands aside for start up costs and vet bills, and adjusted my monthly budget to include insurance and food, but the £4500-£5000 price tag feels like a real barrier to entry to responsible owners! I was expecting an inflated price but it is a slightly breath-taking number. I'll try to remain patient, it's so hard when I'm already imagining our future friend!!

Yea I really feel for the responsible breeders - the landscape has become incredibly difficult and untrusting for everyone! It's hard to be a serious buyer but feel priced out of the opportunity because of the deviousness of others! Thank you for your reply, it helps understand the current situation.

Many years ago the cost of buying a puppy from an ethical breeder was higher, it was an expected thing.

However our world has changed due to a combination of factors largely due I feel to the want it now brigade who are so used to ordering something online and it arriving a few days later, puppies seem to come under this requirement. Combine this with the rise of ‘designer breeds’ and ‘celebrities’ (quotes on both are deliberate along with a lot of eye rolling) and you have a puppy farmers dream of becoming millionaires.

I do hope that this lockdown is the last for two reasons. The obvious one in that covid becomes extinct and that puppy prices return to a more normal figure and a well bred puppy fetching a higher price then some random crossbreed with a cute name (I can only hope).

I just had a quick look re puppy prices for my main breed, as shown on this place - I think it needs upgrading .... the last figures are given for 2019 in which year puppies cost £1065.     If only!!

Whippets in 2019 - £696.   Oh boy.

I feel the price averages were low as it included cheaper, less royally bred puppies. Also these were advertised litters. As we know a lot of established quality breeders rarely needed to advertise.

Now it seems that it is the formerly lower quality (breed standard and health testing pov) pups that are at the highest price, with the quality litter prices somewhat higher, but at a lot less of an increase.

My daughter was hoping to get another whippet next year (her previous one died of old age 3 years ago).  She had expected to pay £700-£1000, from a show breeder, not a racing breeder.  Now the only ones she can see are £2500-£3000.  Her reason for choosing a show as opposed to racing breeder is that she is hoping the puppy will have a slightly lower prey drive as it will be living with cats and a couple of toy dogs (mine, as I also live with her).  It's an absolute minefield and it's sad that some people are being priced out because of the unscrupulous money-making "back-yard" breeders.  Good breeders understandably don't want to undercut the dubious other breeders.  I'm just glad I got my girl shortly before Covid hit.  I paid a normal price for my perfect new family member.

There are Whippet breeders who are charging the normal price, which is around £800-£900 and not ripping off buyers, so don't despair.

Any suggestions where I can look to find them?

Sorry I have totally lost track with who is & isn't breeding, as I have been out of the circuit for over 16 months.

If you have had the breed before then networking through your breeder/stud dog owner.

If not do you know someone to within the breed who can dig around their breed contacts.

Hi there. This is a post that really struck a chord with me. I am on a waiting list for a bischon frise female. I have scoured the kc kennel club and champdogs for advice and suggestions. I contacted quite a lot of breeders and was lucky enough to have a lady last year who was not thinking of having a litter until 2021 but did have friends who were due in 2020. I needed to be 100% my situation would remain the same working from home etc before I would allow myself to fully commit. I have seen mum and become very fond of her indeed beautiful temperament and all the wonderful traits you come to expect from this breed. I have not discussed price with breeder as yet and wanted to wait till puppies are here and know mum and pups are healthy. Plus I did think she may not have a female pup for me . I think I have been possibly reluctant to asking case I am totally gutted it's out my price range. I too have saved for over 12 months but I have seen non kc for up to £3000 which is beyond my reach. I know the breeders I have contacted do show and I am not wanting to do that nor would I wish to breed. I agree with the other lady would most definitely not think about under valuing the work that goes into breeding and when the puppies arrive. It is most definitely not for the faint hearted as the risks of losing your bitch and puppies would be for me too much to bare.  I have no idea though what I should except to pay that is considered fair and reasonable price.

If you have had the breed before then networking through your breeder/stud dog owner.

Unfortunately our last whippet's breeder seems to have "dropped off the face of the earth" and general opinion here, when I asked 2 or 3 years ago, is that she is no longer breeding.  The only other breeder recommended by a friend who has 2 dogs from her, is one of the many who is charging £2,500+