I've seen a litter advertised for this rare breed and the breeder said they are the only breeder in this country breeding Teddy Bear Pugs which they brought from abroad. Is this a new breed?

No, I saw it on Pets 4 homes.

> Is this a new breed?

No. It’s a cross being sold by unscrupulous people at ridiculous prices under the pretence that it is rare.

Sounds like a other name for a cross breed.
Pugs come in certain colours, anything else means it's been crossed. So silver, fawn, apricot and black only.

I have a feeling both adverts come from same breeder .the dates seem the same .
I would go for cross or it would have been seen before

Pugs don't come in black and tan, neither do frenchies for that matter. Looking at that website they are crosses.

Think most of their dogs are crosses of something or another

I only saw the photos on the main page. Not looked further and don't think I want to either. Bet there is no health testing either.

I wouldn't they offer all sorts of services appears to be a big business

A business that's what I thought.

Just another gimmick and IMO, a cruel one.  Taking a breed that already has a 70% incidence of BAOS then adding long hair is just horrific.  Too many struggle already to breathe clearly and not overheat without being hairy on top.

exactly what I thought- poor little beasts have enough problems with over heating and not being able to breath without having long fur to add to their woes

I saw one recently actually! The owner said it was a ‘teddy pug’, so I asked what it was crossed with, and she was taken a back and corrected me that her dog wasn’t a cross just a long haired pug that’s called a teddy pug...looks like she got the name wrong anyway. I didn’t speak to her for long, just smiled and said how cute and walked away. The dog I saw looked very like a shih tzu x pug or even shih tzu x french bulldog - and on the website it looks to be the case too, they’ve got a few ‘Normal’ pugs at stud, one that’s black and white and has blue eyes...has a muzzle that looks more frenchie to me so probably another cross there.
I know it’s a different breed but I’ve recently seen a lot of labs, kc registered with no tests obvs, being paired together and producing pups that shouldn’t be produced ie. 2 yellow labs producing black and yellow pups. Seems like anyone can get away with anything these days, KC just don’t seem to do anything.

> KC just don’t seem to do anything.

This is the main problem on the registered side isn’t it. If they are going to promote a breed standard with standard colours then why allow registrations of anything but the colours in the breed standard?! Oh... sorry... money

I saw King Miniature Schnauzers advertised, cross of mini schnauzer and King Charles Spaniel, £2800 each!

There is a FLUFFY french bulldog puppy also advertised. Bitch had a litter of 11. Priced at a mere £7000 on gumtree.
Madness.

Do you know what I find frustrating about all these fad mixes and fad names and even byb/commercial breeders with little to no health testing done. They charge more than a well bred puppy. Surely we need to be doing something which means well bred is always more expensive not less.

suejaw:  > Do you know what I find frustrating about all these fad mixes and fad names and even byb/commercial breeders with little to no health testing done. They charge more than a well bred puppy. Surely we need to be doing something which means well bred is always more expensive not less.

So very true and yet no-one reacts to these people just comment in a safe environment such as the Forum.  Please don't think I am making a derogatory comment, not my intention, but perhaps giving these people a hard time would be more productive than 'inhouse conflict'. Just my opinion I'm sure but perhaps a different approach to what is currently 'open season' for
fad mixes and fad names who are indeed leading the way.

> giving these people a hard time would be more productive than 'inhouse conflict'.

I think responsible breeders do give them a hard time when the chance arises. Unfortunately I honestly don’t think they give a s**t to be frank. They are making way too much money to care. The general public don’t seem to either to a large degree as they just want something cute, fluffy and now, regardless of the cost to their pocket or their dogs health. We can but keep educating and hope one day the world will see sense

The link is showing as no longer available. Perhaps they’ve sold them all, yikes.
Poor little dog having such a large litter

I want the people who are known and will be listened to for that other site is closed down, no animals to be advertised on GT and similar.
Places like here and KC site and via breed clubs only. That will mean many of these types of breeders won't be able to advertise.
If this site made it if not health tested then no advertising full stop. I don't think people should be given the option, either allow good breeders only or not at all.

Don't think its the norm for these small breeds to have such large litters. Chances are it's a number of litters lumped into as one, but as a cross who only knows

Fb supposedly banned selling animals. Has that been successful?

furriefriends:  > Fb supposedly banned selling animals. Has that been successful?

A big fat NO!  This is how breeders (and I use the term lightly) advertise availability of litters in my area and they are never KC registered nor tested for anything...so a lot of education required still.

It is if says for sale and someone reports them on a private page. If fb picks things up in groups they can close the group down.
People are becoming clever in how they advertise a litter now

The other thing I see is people asking if anyone has a litter and available pups. Any size, breed, type you name it and then people reply either on the post or by pm. There are sadly ways a means but outright advertising will get pulled if reported.
Usually if admin are alerted to such posts most remove them

Strange the link says unavailable yet the listing is still on there with pictures. Its the 17 months old stud dog for sale which has sired 11 puppies. Advertised as a true visual fluffy french, whatever that means. "Biggest litter in UK".  Poor lad did a good job so why are they selling him?
I don't know why I drift onto gumtree..out of curiousity really...its got to be the worst dog platform ever.

That's what I have seen as well . Unfortunately like everything someone always trying to get round it

I think anyone re-homing a retired/adult bitch would be wise to ensure she is spayed first.

It is still on the Adult Labrador post where you tagged me - including the mobile no.
When I said, 'and a member since 2016', I meant a member on Pets4Morons, not on CD.

> I know it’s a different breed but I’ve recently seen a lot of labs, kc registered with no tests obvs, being paired together and producing pups that shouldn’t be produced ie. 2 yellow labs producing black and yellow pups. Seems like anyone can get away with anything these days, KC just don’t seem to do anything.

You sure there kc reg? As in labs the kc are not ment to registration of non yellow pups out of two yellows  and same goes for black out of two chocks. If they are registered I'd guess it's either a mistake the kc have missed or the breeder had lied about the colours when registering.

>Fb supposedly banned selling animals. Has that been successful?

Not in the slightest. I've reported umpteen pages and groups called "[breed name here] puppies for sale" and have had the reply that 'it doesn't breach their community standards'.

I think you need to report individual posts in those groups. They can then take down the group if that's all it is, pets for sale

The trouble is they don't, even if you just report posts.

> You sure there kc reg? As in labs the kc are not ment to registration of non yellow pups out of two yellows  and same goes for black out of two chocks. If they are registered I'd guess it's either a mistake the kc have missed or the breeder had lied about the colours when registering.

Unfortunately yes, I’ve seen it happen on several occasions, which is why I brought it up as I’ve been stunned to see these litters be able to be registered...I can’t be certain if they’ve all registered the pups as the right colours but certainly some have. I don’t know if all these are properly kc registered either, or if they’re just not very good at faking it, or even if the parents are who they’re saying they are... who knows!? But I do know and have seen KC registering dogs that shouldn’t have been registered.

> perhaps giving these people a hard time would be more productive than 'inhouse conflict'.

Nope.  I'm increasingly seeing this happen, and all it achieves is either other people (including the breeder) telling them to shut up and mind their own business, or other likeminded people just agreeing with them.  Nothing changes.

What we need is a massive cultural shift towards better quality breeding, and I wouldn't even begin to know where to start with making that happen.  The UK is very much a hub of "I want that now" and following fashions with no regard to who or what suffers for it, and until that changes, the greeders will continue breeding.  The root cause runs much, much deeper than just how people buy and sell puppies.

It seems a major issue in all the English speaking countries.

I wonder.what is different about the Scandinavian countries where they habe few rescues, though the designer crosses are also finding favour I believe.

Goldmali and others who know, can you shed sime light??

Itbdays here that 70% of digs are registered withbthe Swedish Kennel Club.
https://dogwellnet.com/content/health-and-breeding/breeding/general-quidelines/cynological-organizations-more-on-ethics-and-breeding/breeding-dogs-in-sweden-skks-tools-and-efforts-to-improve-canine-health-r301/

So there is more influence, asbestimates are that ournKC registers just 30% of our dog population.

I suspect breeding strategies and rules of SKK are stricter too.

> I think anyone re-homing a retired/adult bitch would be wise to ensure she is spayed first.

I have on many occasions written to such advertisers (on THAT website) suggesting they do exactly that, so they don't end up as breeding machines.    I'd love to think even 1% of those I've written to, would do that, but of course that's wishful thinking.

they won't spay. They know full well the value of a bitch is her breeding potential to get the highest price.  why lay out £200 to get the dog spayed and then lose hundreds on its resale value?  people are often not nice

I wonder.what is different about the Scandinavian countries where they habe few rescues, though the designer crosses are also finding favour I believe.

Goldmali and others who know, can you shed sime light??


Sorry I didn't see this until now. I would say that in Sweden, the concept of owning a dog is very different to here. The attitude is different. The majority of dog owners live in flats and so have to take the dog out for walks several times every day no matter what. If they work full time they will typically use a dog walker or dog daycare. Hence it is rare to own more than one dog, sometimes two. I've only ever personally heard of one breeder who does not live in a (usually) detached house out in the countryside, and even breeders often have very small numbers of dogs such as 3 or 4. SKK registration, pre designer crossbreeds, was always seen as important and of course you cannot register puppies without the parents having been health tested and sometimes character tested too, depending on the breed. To register puppies and/or to enter a show, you must be a member of the SKK and therefore a lot of dog owners are members, even if just for a while. Members get the SKK magazine monthly and that includes a lot of articles aimed at novices be it novice owners, exhibitors, breeders etc. There's excellent advice. There's a separate magazine included for those more involved, you choose between receiving the one for exhibitors or the one for hunters, as hunting is a big thing. I think the fact that you MUST be a member to register pups automatically means that people become better informed and think twice before breeding.

As it was illegal to neuter dogs/spay bitches unless for medical reasons until 1989, it has never really become the norm to do so. People made sure to keep bitches in season away from male dogs as otherwise they would inevitably end up with an accidental litter, which few wanted. For the same reason there were hardly any crossbreeds until the global craze started. The SKK inspect their breeders so again, registration means something. It's a bit like being an ABS member except it's for everyone who breeds an SKK registered litter -it's not a choice. To register puppies costs roughly £50 per pup IF the parents have been shown or worked with certain minimum results, otherwise the cost goes up to £70.

It's just a different mindset that you grow up with. Dogs are a big responsibility, cost a lot to look after and to buy, and breeding isn't for everyone. Owning a dog isn't seen as the same basic right as here. You cant buy a dog and leave it in your garden all day as you most likely don't have a garden. You can't buy a pup and crate train it as that isn't legal. You have no choice but to get it house trained ASAP even when it means getting down several flights of stairs or using a lift. Obviously recently the price of pups here have gone through the roof, I don't know what has happened in Sweden (although somebody I know who enquired about importing a show quality pup was quoted £4000 recently) but when I first arrived in the UK puppies cost less than half of what they did in Sweden, even show prospects from wellknown breeders.

Sounds like this is what is needed here.