I often searched on dog forums, I always used to think how unfriendly, unaccepting and at times cold people were on these breeding forums. I also used to have this idyllic desire to have a litter of boxer puppies (my favourite breed) and watch my own dog give birth and raise a lovely litter of pups, making a few quid to boot.

Let me tell you that the unfriendly, unwelcoming shut down responses of long term good breeders are nowhere near harsh enough and there is nothing but heartache involved in backyard breeding.

I have been adopted by a [removed] bitch that has totally well and truly stole my heart, she was unknowingly pregnant when I got her and gave birth to 6 beautiful puppies. I researched, signed up to everything known to man and bought everything advised to buy. She didn't have her health checks, I did get her vaccinated and the dad dog is not 100% confirmed. I also wormed her with panacur as advised.

I have gone through the most anxiety riddled 4 weeks I have ever gone through in my life and today I have 5 pups left, a £800 vet bill that's still ongoing and 5 pups that the vet believed had parvo. (luckily the parvo tests came back negative) My heart is broken, 5 puppies are sick and even if I was going to sell them (I am not) they have cost me far more physically, emotionally and financially then I will ever get back. Do not do it, I beg anyone thinking that breeding your lovely pet dog to get one of her clones is a good idea to think again, my bitch misses her pre pup life and I miss our life before all this too. She genuinely couldn't care less about having her pups and although she is a good mum she looks at the front door with more desire than she looks at a rump steak. She can no longer go for walks due to infection chances and I cannot have visitors into the house either, until we see some improvements

It is not worth it, it is traumatic, sad, scary and having a litter does not match up to the cutesy idea I used to have. I would never have bred her given the choice but please if anyone is thinking of breeding and is doing it for any of the reasons I mentioned please don't you may regret it and may end up also having your heart broken.

I have seen the vet surgery more than I have seen my own kitchen this last week and for your bitches sake just enjoy her, I can promise you she does not need a litter to feel fulfilled

Written by a non professional, clueless pup granny that currently has the vets on speed dial and and a bin full of empty wine bottles

PS please pray for my 5 and if this post stops one person from thinking its a great idea to breed it'll be at least worth some of the heartache I am feeling

Such a heartfelt and valid post. I am so sorry you are going through this but yes although a non breeder myself I totally get what you are saying. Breeding should not be done lightly and needs years of knowledge and research with support and most importantly the right dogs and reasons

I do hope the remaining 5 pups recover soon . You could not have done more

Very brave to take the time to write that.  I do indeed have everything crossed for the pups survival and a return to normality for you and your girl.

What a brave and heartfelt post. I’m so sorry it has been such a rough time for you. Things will get better and get back to pre-pup normality soon. If you are happy to, share this on social media too. And again if you are happy with it I would like to share it as well.

Big hugs xx

ETA: Admin perhaps this should be made a sticky thread so people see it easily?

DanniC83:  > I always used to think how unfriendly, unaccepting and at times cold people were on these breeding forums.
Sadly Forums can only repeat an ongoing message - that's the reality of their beliefs - how that message is delivered is debatable - on a positive note, I would look at the experience
as a learning curve (one I know you haven't enjoyed) but if you later follow your dream to have a Boxer Litter, you have gathered an understanding & a bit of knowledge that will stand
you in good stead!

> there is nothing but heartache involved in backyard breeding.

Oh DanniC83, you are anything but a BYB for all the reasons you gave for taking your Rottie girl on board.  Everything that came from that you have dealt with exceptionally!

> I researched, signed up to everything known to man and bought everything advised to buy.

You were so open to suggestion and advice.  I doubt if anyone on this Forum could find fault in anything you have done. (might have to get my boxing gloves on if they dare!)

> an £800 vet bill that's still ongoing>

Yip, this is where things can get out of control and gives owners such worry.  No-one can predict future costs but can only have a wee 'rainy day' account.  You didn't have this opportunity and therefor I hope your chosen Vet will be understanding and perhaps set up a payment plan that you can manage - you can always ask?

> It is not worth it, it is traumatic, sad, scary and having a litter does not match up to the cutesy idea I used to have.

Many Breeders experience these feelings when that beautiful, so loved companion has unexpected issues.  People only see the lovely Show Champion, Agility Winner or a Working Dog in their Prime.  It takes a lot of sleepless nights to before you get reward whether companionship or the afore mentioned and you will with another little puppy from the litter if you decide to keep one back.

> PS please pray for my 5

Bless Danni - everything in life is in the lap of the Gods - a wee prayer coming your way!

Oh bless you for writing this heartfelt post.
You’re quite right thinking originally that breeders forums are often harsh in their replies to those thinking it would be fun to breed their bitch and usually go storming off after a good shouting match. I belong to another forum and it has been inundated by those suddenly deciding to breed their dogs both bitches and dogs in order to make money. It’s funny how many accidental matings there has been over the last year then the sudden realisation they are out of their depth.
I know you are not one of the above and have suddenly become a breeder through no fault of your own. There was a time when I flirted with the idea of breeding one of my dogs but soon realised that I just couldn’t do it as I’m fundamentally lazy and the thought of it all going wrong horrified me. I couldn’t bear to see tiny puppies die or the devastation of losing my much loved girl.
I raise my hat to the breeders on this forum and others.

> I raise my hat to the breeders on this forum and others.

I've always felt like this about breeding.

A BREEDERS TALE

I love my little puppy, he makes my house a home. 
He always is my best friend, I never feel alone.
He makes me smile, he makes me laugh he fills my heart with love. 
Did some breeder breed him?  Was he sent from heaven above? 

I’ve never been a breeder, or seen life through their eyes.
I hold my little puppy, just sit and criticise.
I’ve never known their anguish, I’ve never felt their pain.
The caring of their charges, through snow or wind or rain.

I’ve never waited all night long for puppies to be born.
The stress and trepidation when they’re still not there by dawn….
I’ve never felt the heartache of a little life in my hands.
A darling little puppy who weighs just 60 grams!!

Should you do this instead of that?  Or just pray to God?
Alone you fight, and hope one day he’ll grow into a dog.
Bring joy to another being and make a house a home.
You know it’s all just up to you, you fight this fight alone.

Formula, bottle, heating pads, you’ve got to get this right.
Two hourly feeds for this little mite throughout the day and night.
In your heart you know it, you’ll surely lose the fight…
To save this little baby, but God willing, you just might….

Day one he’s in there fighting, you say a little prayer.
Day two and three he’s doing well, with lots of loving care
Day four and five – he’s still alive your hopes soar to the heavens. 
Day six he slips away again, dies in your hands day seven.

You take this little angel and bury him alone.
With aching heart and burning tears (and an exhausted groan,)
You ask yourself, Why do this?  Why suffer all the pain?
But see the joy that puppies bring – it really self explains.

So when you think of breeders and label them with “greed”
Think what they sometimes endure to fill anothers need.
And when you buy a puppy, with pounds and pence you part.
You only pay with money…..
We pay with our hearts.

JeanSW:  My goodness.  It's a long time since I shed a tear (always have to be strong with all that has happened this year) but this really struck a cord! I've copied your poem and I will revert to it when in doubt.  Thankyou!

Gosh that made me cry.

You poor girl.
Disney has a lot to answer for, with sanitised portrayals in 101 Dalmations et al.

This reminds me of my second and 3rd litters.

The first I inexplicably lost 2 of the pups day 2. Mum had Gastro enteritis a week before birth.

Remaining 4 put on Antibiotics and rallied.

The 3rd litter did not react well to worming at 2 1/2 then after second dose at 5 weeks terrible diarrhoea!! Pups lost weight, I cried buckets, but all was eventually well.

My mentor came down with a bottle for me and moral support.

Sadly loosing puppies is not uncommon.

The fact is every breeder has gone through similar experiences of heartache.
Sometimes no matter what you do you can't fight mother nature.
This is something people need to realise good breeders do everything they can to produce the best and healthiest pups for themselves and others.
Fingers crossed your pups will recover and grow up to be big and healthy too.

Thank you all, I never used to feel like I was an anxious person until I had 6 little pooping machines placed in my hands. I think loosing Luna has hit me harder than I imagined or realised until last night.

After loosing my pup on Sunday I simply cried, in fact I sobbed then I had this overwhelming fear that they was all going to die. Monday was filled with sadness and Tuesday green boy projectile pooped a deep green watery puddle out his bum with so much force I simply scooped them all up called the vet and said I am bringing them all in. Hearing Parvo even if you are not the most clued up is a death sentence. Waiting 15 mins to get the result of said test is like waiting on your last bingo number to be called to win some amazing full house prize except you know the outcome could be devastating. Colvasone Injections, Synulux drops, Vitamin B12 injections and some Diarsanyl to administer to them all, I didn't know what any of these things were, what they did or if they would improve them. I being the clueless non breeder I am begged the vet to do all he could to give them a chance but why on earth anyone would choose to open themselves up to this heartache lord knows.

I've had zero sleep since and when I say zero I mean none, I am terrified of sleeping and I am refusing to let anyone enter the house due to the immune systems of the 5 lives im fully responsible for being compromised. Before you breed please ask your self if you can accommodate zero sleep for days and zero assistance from anyone else and zero opportunity to leave the house for fear of what you might bring in or what might happen if you leave them alone. I might sound dramatic but the vets even said to me a dehydrated sick puppy can die very quickly and not only that its not cheap to make better either so there is nothing enjoyable about the process.

My days consist of changing bedding, taking stool samples, waiting for the next poop, weighing and trying to get the correct amount of meds down them all.

Last night red girl whined for 5 hours the only time she stopped crying was when she was feeding or when I was holding her. I walked around holding a 1.3kg 2 week old pup while trying to have a coffee and cleaning diarrhea up. It's hard and unless you know what you are doing its terrifying. I have 5 puppies that hopefully will make it after I have put my blood, sweat, bank account and tears into them and I (hopefully) get to hand them over when all the crap part is done to someone who WILL NEVER go through what I have with them. I am sure they will be loved and cared for but my God if you want a pup buy one from a KC registered breeder who has done all their homework and done all in their physical being to prep for this and enjoy them from 8 weeks when this part is over because it sucks.

My girl don't want to know anymore, I have to physically encourage her to even feed them and when she does if the door knocks or she sees a cat in the garden she forgets they exists and jumps on them to enjoy her normality, she definitely would not care if they was collected tomorrow and as much as I love them I wish someone would because this is exhausting.

I am sure we will get through it, worming, weaning and all the rest we have got to come will bring even more challenges.

I just want the real experience of what exactly it feels like to breed your bitch to be out there. At this point I doubt most mumma dogs even want to keep one themselves if my girls anything to go by, she cant wait till they stop feeding to run upstairs and escape them.

I have wrote a day 1 to day 14 diary and I wrote notes in the few weeks leading up to birth. I am going to blog it all and try put it out there to wherever I can as there's nowhere on the internet I have read this real life view of how it is to breed your bitch. Even the book of the bitch makes it seems so easy as long as you follow the steps correctly, almost like an instruction booklet on raising a pup. Well nobody prepped me for this, maybe I wouldn't feel like this if Luna was here but she's not and the fact is loosing them before they reach 8 weeks old is far to common for this to be fun.

Sorry I am so negative

I hope your future blog post is read by many of those thinking of breeding, it sounds absolutely heartbreaking what you have been through. If it stops a few of the get rich quick types or those thinking that their bitch needs to experience being a mother or the I want a puppy just like my dog, your job will be done.
Try to take care of yourself now. I know it’s difficult, but going without sleep for so long can make you ill which won’t help the mum and her babies. I hope all the little ones get better soon allowing you to relax a bit

So many people out there 5hink their lovely bitch should have a litter and when you explain all the things that go wrong then we are beaten down saying we shouldn't be so negative, we should be nice and agree what a lovely thing it is to do.
It is bloody hard work even when nothing goes wrong but when it does as you have documented it is hard work in all areas for you, those around you, the litter and the dam.
I think doing a blog and getting it shared across as many dog groups and pages on social media the better.
I know good breeders who have lost dam and the whole litter as well. It is not easy money as so many think it is. And people shouldn't be breeding for an income imo. There should be a valid reason and not because they want their wonderful girl experience being a mum or their kids experience a litter or because they want another puppy like the mother, rarely ever works that way

When you have written your blog I will happily share it on mine xx

I have sat crying at the vets while they have fought to save a bitch where things have gone wrong and I know what to do. 

I lost a two and a half year old at the vets to preeclampsia she was at the vets three days in a row we knew something was wrong but they couldn't find anything until we rushed her through on the last day and the head vet saw her and said it's preeclampsia,  she died later that day with four vets and five nurses trying to save her they were squeezing fluid into her trying to stabilize her while the vets tried to stop the massive internal hemmorage,  we had arrived to collect her when this happened all the puppies were dead when they performed the c section earlier in the day.

She slept next to my bed and was my shadow

the guilt we feel is indescribable we did this to her

The reason we tell people not to oh we just want her to experience motherhood is because most of us have had experienced something similar to this and do not want anyone to go into this with rose coloured glasses on

Any time a bitch of mine in pup sneezes wrong they are at the vets I only breed when I want a new puppy once in every four to five years

My dogs are cherished family pets that I show at home right now the couch is covered in corgis and the floor in toys my life revolves around my dogs

Its why our girl whippet is spayed. Heard too many horror stories to risk our pet.  and this is just the start of the worry- finding owners who are sane, solvent and will commit for the life time of a dog is also not straight forward.
My first weimaraner her breeder kept in touch through the whole of our girls life and she said she never stopped caring about the puppies she bred- and that was a worry to her. She kept tabs on ALL of them

How are you getting on DanniC83? I hope all is ok

> My girl don't want to know anymore, I have to physically encourage her to even feed them and when she does if the door knocks or she sees a cat in the garden she forgets they exists and jumps on them to enjoy her normality, she definitely would not care if they was collected tomorrow and as much as I love them I wish someone would because this is exhausting.

My girl was like that, th amount of times I had to tell her to go feed her puppy.  I did find with her feeding was easier if I brought the pup to her (we only had the 1). I'd put a towl on the sofa and she would lay there feeding him while watching tv.

Jodi:  > How are you getting on DanniC83? I hope all is ok
So many have been touched by this story and hoping for a positive outcome as time goes on!

Hi All

I really appreciate those of you that advise and/or think of me, I am so sorry if I haven't responded and left you worrying, being a foster pup mum is exhausting

So the five remaining pups, Karah, Milan, Zaya, Betty Boob and pink girl are all doing ok. They are 3 weeks on Wednesday and all weigh between 1.8kg and 2.1kg. Mum seems a bit confused by them and unsure what to do but will feed them if I sit with her and feed her/stroke her and talk to her at the same time. I do this during the day every 4 hours until 10pm then wake up at 2am to give them a feed which seems to do them ok until 7am. Mum will no longer go in and feed any voluntarily and needs me to completely smother her with food and love to get her to feed for the 5 minutes she gives them. They are mostly using the puppy pads and have now ventured into their own playroom with loads more space and toys to play with. Pink girl is now they smallest and the latest one to steal my heart, she is very dainty and the one that looks closest to her mother. She is the first to greet me and is probably whinges the most. I was thinking of keeping her but mum has started to growl and snarl at them when she is eating so I genuinely think she'd rather live alone with me. My daughter returned to college last night so my respite avenue has now gone and I have had to book 2 weeks further annual leave as I simply cannot work from home while feeling so exhausted. They are all wormed now on the Panacur 10% and currently no further signs of diarrhea which is helping the vets bill.

The amount of poop and pee is unreal and I have so far gone through 230 puppy pads and done about 60 loads of washing. I am aiming to commence weaning them all on Thursday as currently feeding the 2 fatties once a day or they simply don't settle. The 2 that are eating mush are eating really well and took to it like a duck to water thank God.

They all have their own characters Milan is the smallest boy and bullies his siblings rotten, unless he is sleeping none of the others are allowed too. Zaya is no trouble and pees and poops on the puppy pads every single time without fail, Betty is a pig and is always the first and last to feed, she also walks through all the others to get where she is going. Karah is the biggest boy also a greedy pig but sleeps way more than the others. Pink girl just loves being picked up and cuddling I am hoping a special home can be found for her as she is currently the only one not homed.

I love them all dearly but I would never do it again and my girl has made it known loud and clear she hates being a mother

You sound to be doing great, well done. Perhaps the puppies nails need a trim which might account for why mum is a bit grumpy

Well done you.

I often find Mum will grumble if they approach her food.

Now is the time to give them their first tastes of Porridge consistency weaning food.

Take each one seperately.

I use an old infant feeding spoon.

Once they like the taste I put them around a flat dish and let them get messy.

At 3 weeks I will be offeri g them weaning food 4 times a day, and will also be worming if you haven't already done so.

Mum will then come in to finish up and pups will feed off her, a pri e she'll be happy to pay, lol, and she will clean the foid off them, but you can help after with a damp cloth.

Nail cutting is important it can make Mum very reluctant to feed. This is peak lactation, but they can feed quite quickly.

Hi All

Puppies nails are getting cut every 3 days as I noticed scratches on her teats so it must have been sore for her.  I am on day 2 of the panacur wormer they are getting 1ml each per day for 3 days. They are all between 1.9kg and 2.2kg the largest 2 have just slightly over 1ml.

I am so impressed at how the puppies make there way to the puppy pads 9 times out of 10 they make it to them. I wish I knew how they knew thats where they are supposed to pee and poop

Now they have been moved upstairs to their own puppy play room, it has a couch in it for mum to feed on and she seems to be more comfortable up there away from distractions

They feed at around 6am 10am 2pm 6pm 10pm and then go right through without waking up until about 6am, is this to long?

I am planning to start weaning on Friday to give the wormer a few days to get out of their systems and hopefully I can begin to stop worrying a bit

I keep hearing conflicting advice on using goats milk, especially as they already had loose poops. Would you advise against using it?

On a final note we have teeth and they are SHARP i now understand why num has had enough of them

I also found out mumma dog is closer to 5 than 3 so maybe this explains things a bit?

Amazing how they grow.

I always like to worm once they have some food in their bellies, which is why I give it after I start them on weaning foods, on the basis that I normally dose the adults with food.

But that's me.

I had a bad reaction to worming with my third litter in 1997, so started doing it that way ever since.

Might just be coincidence.

As for the puppy pads, I think there is some scent used that encourages them.

Be very careful when they get older that they don't shred them, as the gel in them is toxic.

Another10 days or so and they will be wanting to go outdoors, hope you get some nice weather.

Brainless: > <br />I had a bad reaction to worming with my third litter in 1997, so started doing it that way ever since
What happened? Does that mean you now wait until they are 4 weeks old before 1st worming? - soz if I have misread post.

Puppy Pads

> Be very careful when they get older that they don't shred them, as the gel in them is toxic.

Goodness!  I had no idea this was the case...Does this apply to all puppy pads? (very scary)

I assume they all have the gelling crystals like in human nappies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6505782/

Re worming I start pups on weaning foods from 18 days, and worm from day 21 - 23.

I feel happy to do this slight delay due to worming the bitch during last trimester, so any wom burden at birth would be minimal.

Hi DanniC83
Well done for battling on, you are doing a grand job. Thank you for sharing a very frightening situation, you must be absolutely shattered. I hope things get easier soon.
V.x

This is hard, every week it seems like there are new issues to deal with.

2 out of 5 have umbilical hernias, this is now setting fear and more expense concerns. They are tiny hernias but they are there all the same. Id guess the size of a pea and squishy, you can push them in but they pop out again. I know zero about them so another vet visit will be scheduled I guess. The largest one also seems to have slight splayed out back legs, she's huge, never stops eating is by far the heaviest and it almost looks like she's struggling to walk taking her weight. She's definitely not a swimmer as she's walking, sitting up and playing and you wouldn't see the issue really until she's eaten and overly full but she waddles and its like she is to heavy to carry herself and her legs just go outwards rather than straight underneath her.

The other big issue I have is mum just won't go in and feed them until I take her in, when I do she will feed them ok for ten minutes then she will simply snap at them. She's full of milk so I am worried about mastitis or them starving! I am feeding them 400ml goats milk and 2 cups of TOTW High Prairie Puppy twice a day for now, I will increase it to 3 times next week and 4 by the following Wednesday when they are 5 weeks old. (They are 4 weeks next Wednesday and will be on 3 meals a day) Last night mum fed them 4 times throughout the day, they then had 2 proper meals with the last being at 10pm. They then slept through until 4.30am when I woke them up for fear of them all not being alive or starving. They wouldn't have woke up though if I hadn't gone in? Is that normal? They had a feed off mum at 4.30am and then at 9am had breakfast then fed off mum for a little while until shed had enough. I will have to think of the best and safest ways to dry her milk up slowly but I don't think I need to worry about that yet?

So Hernias, Splayed legs, Mastitis, sleeping to long... Its a minefield and brings me back to my original statement of this is heartache, stress, expense and although I love them all this is not something that just anyone should get into. I have researched my life away and I still don't know anything. I have had 2 kids and they were far less stress than these 5. I still think I am struggling after loosing Luna but I am not enjoying this one bit.

On the plus side they are all fully puppy pad trained and have minimal accidents next stop garden training and all the vets visits/health concerns that come with that.

Can anyone give opinions on letting them go at 8 weeks over 12 weeks? I am currently swaying to 12 weeks to assess hernias and have them fully toilet trained/vaccinated and microchipped before moving on

PS - anyone thinking of breeding please think very hard and think about worst case scenarios before going ahead. This truly is the hardest thing I have done

you are doing really well.
regarding age they go- see what the vet says but the micro chipping can be done at 8 weeks so thats not an issue.  vaccination best done by new owners as that way there will be no issue with different types of vaccine as both jabs need to be from same company.

I would have them on 4 meals a day from 3 weeks, so the amount they eat is spread out, and the amount they need from Mum also more evenly spread out.

Massage the hernias back in frequently, so that hopefully the openings gradually close with it all in.

At 3 weeks a heavy pup will not have a steady stance, so I'd not worry yet.

If they are gaining well allow Mum to set the pace re weaning.

As you will be feeding 4 times a day you know they won't starve.

By making her go in more she will make more.milk.

This is the Peak of lactstion, from now on they will eat more and more of the food you provide.

With 4 top ups while she clrars their leftovers, and a night visit if she chooses they will be fine.

I always fed 7-8sm 12-2pm, 5-6pm and 10pm.

How is your little pack coming on? have fingers crossed for you all

The trials and tribulations of my litter.

Well thank you for all of your constant support, this forum has been so welcoming to me

Pups are now on 3 meals a day 6am, 5.30pm and 10.30pm from today based on advice I will be adding one in at 1pm too

Mum only feeds after me feeding them now, she has a routine goes in cleans up after them (eats the leftovers) lays with them and lets them fill their tummies, sometimes she goes in about 1pm but not every day. They are sleeping from midnight till 6am right through and 99% of the time using the pads which i am going to change to wood pellets I think (safety concerns and environmental waste concerns too)

Mum is now drying up I think as her boobs are definitely starting to go back to normal, 4 of the 5 pups prefer their food to her milk but I can see she is starting to enjoy them. I have watched her play with them and wag her tail going into them now they are not hanging off her as much.

Now the largest is on carpet rather than lino/sheets/vet bed down she is walking loads better but hearing the above about her only being 3 weeks and the largest I will try to chill out about it

The hernias on the 2 I am massaging several times a day, neither of the 2 are bothered or showing signs of pain/discomfort

I am starting to relax a little bit now thanks to all of you

PS their teeth are hell on earth anyone recommend any teething toys or things to add into their room. They have a tunnel, teepee, a baby playmat, some puppy toys and a squeaky elephant that Kara drags around with him everywhere but no real teething chews

They are all adorable and their characters are really starting to show now

Just to add they are 4 weeks tomorrow and all weigh between 3.1kg and 3.5kg now - chunky monkeys

oo they will be big dogs :)  so pleased they are doing well

You will find that suckling after they have eaten means they are not mauling her as they would.be.when hungry, and she had a reward in their leftovers, win win.

As they get their teeth you can start feeding their puppy mush less liquid, then just well soaked with warm water rather than mashed, eventually leading to just soaked in cold water, and by 6 weeks just moistened.

From 6 - 7 weeks.I often used to leave them with a small dish of dry overnight if Mum has stopped going into their puppy pen.

Often you play things by ear, smaller litters and large litters can vary timings.

Also don't be fooled that her milk is drying up it is just the supply and demand has stabilised so that as much milk is not in the breast betweem feeds. Her milk is still their main or a large part of their nutrition.

As a breastfeeding woman.I found that once lactation was well established my boobs were rarely overfull.

The volume comes with the let down reflex.

Everyone has been amazing but I must state that you have been particularly amazing. Your advice and comments have made me come back again and again.

They all have top and bottom teeth that are incredibly sharp and more than capable of chewing (I have felt this first hand)

Maybe that is why mum is more content they are not as hungry and not mauling her like they have been starved. Pls mum looooooves the left over puppy mush - she goes nuts for it. I have dropped from 2 cups of kibble with 400ml goats milk to 2 cups and 300ml goats milk. I am aiming to reduce this to 200ml goats milk and 100ml water over the next week. Reducing milk to water ratio over the next two weeks so by 6 weeks there's no milk just minimal water. They all have there own bowls to monitor intake but they never stick to them they push the next one along out thinking there's something better in theirs.

They are all enjoying drinking water now too so in food/drink respect I have had it easy. I am just unsure of the amount they are supposed to eat but between the 5 of them they have about 300g kibble 3x a day with 300ml goats milk each time and don't really leave to much for mum to finish off.

I feed to   there is some left for Mum.

I have also found the Road refresher bowls really good, no fear of drowning and less spillage, and keeps eater drinkable as avoids them paddling in it.

I use the small one indoors, and once older the large one outdoors in the day.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Refresher-Prestige-Spill-Water/dp/B001GULX04/ref=asc_df_B001GULX04/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218677846051&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17788745981473387158&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007178&hvtargid=pla-351833807955&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

They are 4 weeks old today.

If the weather is nice like it's due to be here today I'd get them out in the sunshine on a blanket for their first trip outside for half an hour.

They are indeed a month today!

I am going to let them out tomorrow when my mum comes over to assist. I also am waiting for the pen to arrive from Amazon before I attempt it

The first time out they won't go far, as they will be very tentative about the newness.

It's quite amusing seeing who turns out brave and who sits on the blanket calling for Mummy.

Also how quickly after a couple of sessions how much more co-ordinated they become.

DanniC83:  > I am going to let them out tomorrow when my mum comes over to assist. I also am waiting for the pen to arrive from Amazon before I attempt it

Noticed how large your puppies are now - growing like mushrooms.  I have a rabbit. pig, duck run with an arched roof which only cost £30 on a certain auction site starting with e.  You can use the cover included
to make part of it shaded and it only requires a few stakes into turf to keep it secure.  Fantastic for containing inqisitive Puppies!

Ahh bless are you not tempted to keep Pink girl

lol as life would have it she is in fact staying with me. She's the one with the biggest hernia so the one I cannot risk to be passed on

She is also mums favourite.

They are all currently thriving, I am really enjoying them now.

I will be so sad when the time comes for them to leave

At about 7 weeks, you may be sad, but looking forwatd to them having their only as their needs for individual attention increases.

Also the longer they stay together, the more dog focussed and rowdy they will become.

You will breathe a sigh of reliefnthen, and look forward to concentrating on your own pup and her Mum.

The pleasure will come from updates from new owners.

Hopefully you will be able to arrange get togethers.

Parting is the hardest part of being a breeder IMO.
I did have 2 or 3 puppies with umbilical herniae when I was a Cavalier person. They were only small ones and they all self-healed. Do keep your eye on them, but I wouldn't rush into anything at this stage.

So glad to hear she is staying, after all the work think it only right that one stayed with you

Can someone bring my pups back please.

They have been replaced by nasty evil devils with needle sharp teeth that seem to think playtime equals kill each other or at least rip each others ears or genitals off

My god all they do is fight, mum don't even bother to try tell them off anymore she just walks away.

They are all devils, they bite my toes and chase me around

I cant stay mad for long though, i whistles and say pupppiesss and they literally run at me and jump all over me

I have bought a clicker and a pointy pole thing, training is going to commence tonight. I have taught one paw so figured we have hit puppy school time.

I am definitely going to keep in touch with these for life, I have a contract written up and local rescue advice. They are all going to friends or family friends so I am hopeful to always see them.

I have already been asked to have Kobe (was Milan) for a week in June and Zaya for a weekend in May. I have told all new owners I am happy to pup watch whenever needed

See I told you once they are older you would not want to keep them all.

It is impossible to give them the one to one as the weeks go on, that they will need to become humanised canines.

Too long together in as a litter, it can end up like "The Lord of the Flies".

You have captured my sad little world just 6 weeks ago.  18 years ago I started breeding just a litter to carry on my line every 4 years.  During those 4 years all my dogs would go to the cardiologist at least twice, now for Doppler testing. They would all go to the opthamoigis, they all have DNA testing.  On top of general vet check ups.  I would search the stud dogs checking they too have had the same testing and they are comparable and not had too many litters to keep the gene pool diverse. 

Not bothered about MRI testing as they only test healthy dogs and can only give a result for the day they test offering no reassurance as no real understanding of SM exists.

Then I would pick the best dam, prepared to write off a line if they didn't meet the standard.

Litter of 4, 2 days I sat with my dam knowing that the day was near.  That night came where she started to panic and dig.  By morning I was worried and headed to the vet.  We put a three hour time limit.   2 and a half hours later the first pup arrived.  The panic from my new mum not sure what had happened.  Needing reassurance, but this pup was full of fluid.  I did everything I could to clear it, to hear that first breath.  I cradled her in my hand and whoshed her up and down.  I blew air into her lungs but sadly minutes past and nothing was to be done.  The second arrived healthy and breathing followed by two more that just needed a little encouragement with a bit of a rub and some suction.  The third one made a noise that triggered Mums instincts to protect   I monitored her discreetly by camera constantly in the day every two hours at night. Things were going well - gaining weight, feeding well.  Until the third night when she sat on her pup.  The roll bars were not enough, the every 2 hours was not enough for this new mum and it cost her son his life.  My heart broke for the life he should of had, from that point on I
did shifts with my husband in the night offering round the clock supervision which saved her other pups as we had to pull them out.  My dam was lost, she knew he was missing not at first wanting to give him up.  We gave her a teddy which she snuggled up to with her other pups.  After a few days the teddy was disgarded.  Then came an excess of milk for 3 pups when only 2 wer feeding.  I used a little nipple inverter to remove a small excess to prevent cystitis.  After 2 weeks she had finally got the hang of everything and seemed much brighter.  Life was on the up.  3 weeks in and it's time to introduce noises, touch, from humans closest to mum.    Mum always front and centre. Another week and buyers want to visit and it's worming time.  Another week weaning is started although pups really still want mum.  Week 6 they are loving playing, still feeding on mum as well as food. Loving being part of the pack.  Not loving a collar, starting to house train, been microchipped.  Introducing to car, people, traffic sounds, tools, kids pushchairs and wheelchairs the hover etc.  2-4 weeks to go, Still so many hurdles, the health check, possible hernia appearing during play, possible scratches from playing with litter mate, more worming and flea treatment KC registration, contracts puppy packs etc etc etc and IF I part with one I will feel the same loss I felt at the cremation.  So a picture in exchange for Christmas card each year doesn't feel like much to ask just to know all is well.