Hi, I wonder if someone could give me some advice asap. One of my maiden bitches has been with a male for five days and although they have both been happy to participate there has not been a mating.  She is on day 12 of her cycle but still as small as ever.  I don't normally see much swelling and she is very tight.  She is now home, to give both dogs a rest and we will try again tomorrow.  I just don't see a way forward to getting a mating.  She is more than happy to stand for him and he does try but unable to get in.  He has had no trouble with other bitches and is a big strong dog. We have tried helping the dog but like many, they don't like the interference.  Both myself and dog owner have had many years breeding experience but we are really stumped on this one.
Any helpful advice would be much appreciated, as not much time left!

My suspicion is she isn't ready.

I had a bitch come to a dog I had bred.

The bitch had been twice tried with another dog, with no mating.

She had been progesterone tested on second occasion with a guestimate of mating window after 2 tests, but no test confirming she had actually ovulated.

She came to the dog on day 12 flagging madly. He made some half hearted mating attempts until day 15.

I took her to vet for physical exam, vet pronounced that she could only advance her first digit into the bitch and in her view she wasn't mateable, and wrote a statement to that effect.

Next morning I let them out and within seconds they mated, and did so for next 4 days, result an average litter of 6 pups, mating days 16 - 19.

In my breed day 12 would be too early, but about the day I'd introduce them, I'd normally have the pair boarding in same household for a week to 10 days.

I think you were anticipating this mating - if she's currently on day 12 but had been with the stud dog for 5 days, I suggest she has been nowhere near ready.  You might get your vet to check her back there today, (assuming he will do this while still in lockdown?) to make sure there's no abnormal physical situation going on but nature usually has a way of allowing this to happen.   You may get a perfectly good mating tomorrow.   She may just be one who reaches standing heat, later.   If he's an experienced stud dog, he will do his job whether or not she's a maiden.

Have you progesterone tested?

>Both myself and dog owner have had many years breeding experience

I mean this politely, but how is it possible to have had many years experience breeding and still have put two dogs together by day 7 and be surprised they haven't mated by day 12?

The most commonly fertile time for dogs is between day 11-12 and day 15, so if you're not progesterone testing and are just making a wild guess, it's not really surprising if they haven't mated yet...

Rather than keeping them together constantly, so they get bored of each other, I'd separate and try to breed every other day from now on.

onetwothreefour:  > <br />I mean this politely, but how is it possible to have had many years experience breeding and still have put two dogs together by day 7

Same thought I had.  Think this must be a first.  As far as I am aware Breeds vary in their optimum fertility days.  If nothing is happening then I would separate every 48 hrs for 24hrs most definately.

Thank you to those who have commented.  As we know only too well, every bitch can be different and under lock down rules it has been very difficult for those who do not have their own stud  dog.  For this reason, it was agreed that my bitch go and stay with the dog, for convenience, as it is quite a distance away and therefore available if she was ready earlier.  As she seemed quite receptive she stayed but no mating took place, although they were both trying.  No change in size has happened, so she came home.  The stud dog owner, kindly offered to travel over to me, both dogs meanwhile had rested.  However, a mating did not take place and on inspection, still not swollen and not wanting even a finger inserted.  She was also clearly telling the boy she didn't want to be hurt.  So for this reason we have left the mating, although the male would like to keep trying.  The dog has gone home. I have inspected her again but it doesn't look as if we will get that mating now and she is finished at two weeks! Obviously, I am very disappointed with the outcome.  As she is an eight monther, it's not always certain when day one is, especially as another bitch can bring others in at the same time.  Although she loves the stud dog, she was snapping at him.  She is still not swollen, so it looks like there is going to be a real problem with any future matings.

Could be a split season.

Keep watch, she may start again in a few weeks.

Could be a split season.
I’ve seen this happen a couple of times, bleeding, no swelling then a proper season 6 weeks later.

I agree, it sounds like a split season. I would keep an eye on her. If she comes back in soon, then you should anticipate she will quickly be fertile and breedable - not the usual number of days, but much sooner...

Of course whenever you have something weird like this going on, doing progesterone testing on the next heat cycle is highly recommended and will enable you to figure out what's going on.

What causes a split season?  I have never had a  bitch with this before!

How soon after can I expect that to  happen?

I've never experienced this with any of my girls, but isn't this more likely to happen with a puppy who has yet to establish her regular cycle?

6- 8 weeks is what I’ve experienced. Start tissue testing am and pm from 6 weeks so you can get the correct day of bleeding.

What is tissue testing?
Never ever experienced this problem in my other bitches.  Her mum is regular and has always becomes big, as have all my other bitches.
This split season is new to me.  How is it she can be receptive to the dog and then not?  I thought this is usually the sign they have gone off ovulating?
Thanks.

> What is tissue testing?

I'm guessing they mean to get a white tissue and check your girl with it.  When I knew my girl was due I'd do this everyday to catch day one of bleeding.

Myndee if you type "split season" into Google, you will find a lot of information...

The bitch starts the season and appears to progress and then stops without ovulating. Shortly afterwards (few weeks? month or so?) she begins again and this time quickly ovulates and continues the remainder of the season.

Or it could just be an anovulatory cycle, where she didn't ovulate this time.

Both these are very common in dogs, we just don't notice because we're not usually breeding them.

I had it with my Ch bitch before her last litter at 6 1/2.

It may have been because her daughter had been in season.

She went to Stud at good friends who wanted a son of their Ch male

She went up at 12 days, but all signs of season subsided.

She ended up visiting for a whole month started her season again about 3 weeks later.

I don't understand.  Surely she wouldn't have been standing for the dog if she wasn't ready?

No they didn't mate until she restarted and ovulated.

>Surely she wouldn't have been standing for the dog if she wasn't ready?

That's a myth. Some dogs stand throughout their cycle, even if they're not ready. They will even mate, when they're not fertile. That is why the whole industry of progesterone testing and timing of breedings exists. It would be pretty simple if we knew it was the right time when dogs stood and mated and not the right time if they didn't....

Myth or not we have to have some idea when we think a bitch is ready.  Surely that is part of being a responsible knowledgeable breeder?  A slight hicup can happen to anyone and I guess some breeds are more difficult than others, and no two bitches are the same but what about the days before progesterone testing,  we still managed to get our dogs to breed successfully.  I am very thankful I have healthy dogs that have produced lovely pups, going to lovely homes and the iceing on the cake, well thats doing well in their chosen sphere!

Most people, if they are not testing, go by the average days for their breed. Or they go by the response of an experienced stud dog (whether or not the dog to be used for the breeding). Most of the time they will be right.

When they are not right or when their bitch throws them curve balls, is when progesterone testing helps to determine what's going on. End of...

Exactly.

In the past and often now it is normal to board the bitch with the dog and allow mating over about 5 days (often on alternate days) if they oblige until  the dog and bitch loose interest.

The chances are then good that you will have covered the right time.