another consideration. How long are you prepared to wait for a puppy?  The issue with less popular breeds is less breeders and less puppies so may be a very long wait.

Even with a numerous breed there are currently massive waiting lists and inflated prices.

I still think a golden in the most suitable, They can be trained to not approach strangers.

Were in no rush and are happy to wait even years for the right puppy

I watched this video and they dont seem that bad but again I'd need to do more research on them but ive not shown jen yet as i know she follows her heart more than her head and she falls in love to quickly and i know she'll fall for these as they look like fluffy teddy bears.

Heres the video https://youtu.be/BbbrEPUopT8

If that's the case i would make a short list and once shows start then go round those and meet the breeds and their breeder / owners. Hopefully one day discover dogs will also be back so u could see them all there . There will be quite a lot of people so shows may be the place to start when we are allowed to safely

> He said that they are easy to to train compared to other sighthounds and are quiet and not fussed about other people?

Definitely, they will stand and let strangers pat them if they must, but they won't show them any affection or seek them out, they're just not interested in people they don't know.

Training is a breeze, mine (and all my friends silkens) are off lead every day, never any issues. The trick is to let them off as young pups and then it's just not a novelty. They like to zoom for short periods, in big circles round you, then they'll just trot along beside/behind you.

My keenest racer has actually been whistled off deer twice, I've even got a [video of it. I didn't even think to call him initially when he was chasing it, because I've previously owned borzois and that would have been a waste of breath   Then I thought I'll just whistle and see, and he spun round and came racing straight back. I was amazed, but he's done it since too so it wasn't a fluke   I've lost borzoi for several hours before after deer!

I've owned collies, a couple of shepherds, lurchers and borzois over my life and silkens are by far the easiest breed I've ever known. They're not for everyone though, if you want a dog that will play fetch or tuggy forever with you, don't get a silken. Mine do like a game of tuggy for a minute or two, or they'll fetch their toy 5 or 6 times, the next time you throw it they look at you as if you're crazy and wander off for a snooze.

Some people think they're dull, 'non dogs' my brother calls them, but that's not the case, they all have their defined, and different, funny personalities it's just they're not in your face, leaping all over you, demanding attention type.

They do love their owners though, mine always like to lie next to me, preferably touching me  in the evening. I have to sit in the middle of the sofa with a silken either side and one between my legs on the footstool.

<quote> Id be interested to know about the Chow too. Ive read there quiet but are very difficult to train dont know how true that is and read there not for first timers

I have a Chow puppy (4 months old) and my last dog was a Chow X Rottweiler so I’m not the most experienced Chow owner but, having read your requirements, if you’ve ruled out the Eurasier already then I don’t think the Chow will be for you either.

They are not at all difficult to train. They are extremely smart and pick things up quickly. However, they are a very stubborn and independent breed who will do what they want, when they want and are generally not biddable. It is widely accepted that you’ll never have a Chow with a reliable recall, for example, so the majority of owners will not let them off lead unless it’s a safe, fenced area.

However, they are an easy breed to live with. Generally quiet but will bark to alert. My pup ignore the postman but likes to warn us of the presence of the feral cats and the horses 2 fields away  at length We hope he’ll grow out of that. They don’t require lots of exercise (and caution needs to be taken in warmer weather because they overheat easily).
They are aloof with strangers. They don’t seek out attention from others. They are fiercely loyal to their family but only want fuss and attention on their own terms. Often happy in their own company and like their own space.

They are often described as cat-like so your sister might appreciate that aspect of their personality. However, if you want a dog that will reliably respond to commands, they are not the breed for you.

I know I've said this before but always think silkens sound lovely .

Ok so the chow and Eurasier are out , chow because there not for first timers and there too independent for us. Eurasier because there a lot like the chow.

Silken is also out as jens not stuck on the thinner frame she likes chunky dogs.

Jen stayed up again all night researching and she has told me of a choice we could look at now im not sure but she thinks we should look at the Goldendoodle now i know this is not a breed its a mix , its because she prefers the poodle but i prefer the golden so since we cant pick she was thinking lets get both. Im going to need to do a lot more research the only thing that puts me off the poodle side of things is ive read poodles are Barky and are hyper shes thinking a standard poodle cross Golden.

Oh dear, sounds like you have been suckered in by the oodle hype.

You can't predict how crossbreeds will turn out. My friend has Standard poodles, they are fully health tested & highly successful in Breed & Obedience competitions. However they do have"poodle"moments when they reveal their naughty behaviour, including running off at a rate of knots to meet & greet. They are all very tall dogs too, well in excess of GSD size as there is no upper limits in the breed standard. Most Golden x SP are large dogs with a variety of coat types, all of which need profession grooming to keep under some degree of control.

Both Goldens & SP can be very outgoing & overly friendly, They have needed a high level of training to have some degree of control.

These are crossbreeds not a breed & as such are really an unknown quanitiy
.

Research is going to be hard although I think u know that . As ann says u don't really know what u are going to get.
Finding any that are health tested fully for all health issues in both breeds is often much harder as few breeders do them thinking that a cross will breed out health problems.it doesn't  Or just  being lazy or ignorant.
Coats are definitely a potential problem often very difficult to prevent .acting even with professional grooming .
Temperament wise .who knows its all in the luck of the draw.

Ann: im not struck at all on the idea of a poodle let alone a poodle cross. Its jen who likes them.

I wish i could just convince her to get a Golden but she says there too outgoing and friendly with strangers for her.

Trouble is it could be no different with this cross . Training a golden would be more likley to achieve what she wants
Going back in a circle have u definitely crossed off a labrador ? Just wondering if she think s the people thing would be similar with them .
I cant comment as I have a very people orientated breed but when she is out and about is too busy to worry much about running up to others and I can stop that. On lead its no problem and actually nice not to have to worry if someone does come close

Sometimes i feel like im hitting a brick wall with jen.

I can probably get her to see the massive downsides to cross's and why its best we stick to a purse bred but we still wont be any closer to finding our breed as shes adamant on not a Golden. So im stuck trying to find a breed.

I spoke with the Curly coat breed club by the way who said there more vocal than a Golden or lab and are not for first timers as there a handful.

In terms of the lab jen was again the one who said no , growing up we a had a lab and she was very very close to him and would never be able to have her own lab as she would be comparing to him and that would not be fair.

Oh dear I can imagine how hard it must be when she has her mind set on something. 
Would leaving the subject for a while help at all ?
BTW I know we are all different but when I lost my first gsd I swore I couldn't have another as I loved her so much  so went for another breed
When I lost her I had another gsd after all , he was male and a different colour so visually he was different but the same breed and actually his own lovely personality w. I loved him as much as the first one .could she change her mind if u went for different colour labrador ?

I asked her about the stranger thing and shes doesnt feel the same with a lab as she does with the Golden. So thats good.

He was a Yellow lab so i am wondering if thats the real reason she doesn't want a Golden as they look like long coat yellow labs.

So we could look at black labs?

Yes either of the other colours look very different but its a known quantity in her mind that didn't cause a problem with people.
Definitely worth a investigating for breeders who breed with health and temperament in mind .

doodles I meet on walks have all been very hyper.  and very friendly to everyone.  A friend who grooms says the coats are a nightmare on many , matt up badly even with commited owners and have to be clippered very short .

Standard poodle might suit although they are a bit too clever for their own good.  Black lab would be good pick I think and they look nothing like a golden

Weimed: i agree i think we may have just found our breed in a Black or chocolate lab ( i like Black more) there quiet, can be calm in the house, easy to train.

I do want to ask why does every artical on labs make out there the worst puppies and that there bull in china shops but you don't get told this with Goldens for example surley Goldens can be like this too and its not just labs?

I'd agree with Black Labrador. I'd not rule out Liver/Chocolate if they happen to be in same litter.

I'd avoid breeders who breed specifically for colour and chocolate specifically. Reason is that Chocolate became fashionable (a bit like fox red at the moment) and there are those breeding purely 'for the market' rather than for any other reason.

Ime most puppies are energetic much like human children and goldens ive met just a much as labs.
Its a relatively short time and as u know from the one u had they can mature into nice family dogs

Brainless: i wont rule out chocolate i just prefer black but if once we have found the right breeder , the breeder thinks the right one for us is a chocolate pup then i will listen to the breeder. I will be letting the breeder pick for us.

What health tests should i be looking for in the Labrador?

I know hips, elbows but what else should be a must when looking for a breeder?

Furriefreinds: i agree puppyhood is short only lasts 1-1 and half years. I know mentally labs take longer to mature.

> What health tests should i be looking for in the Labrador?

Everything listed on this page (click on more about health) - https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/breeds-a-to-z/breeds/gundog/retriever-labrador/

. Hips should be total of 9 max ideally as this is the breed median and evenly scored (so 4/5 rather than 1/8). Elbows should be 0.

There are a number of DNA tests that should be performed.

http://www.labradorbreedcouncil.co.uk/web%20pages/Health_Tests.html

Thank you masajackrussell and Brainless. Im gonna jot all these down so i dont forget any.

My SIL has had labs and my feelings were that as puppies they really needed to chew a lot. So providing plenty of chews and chew toys should help.
Lab pups are a bit bull in a China shop and probably a bit more then goldens, they seem somewhat unaware of their size and bulk I think.
I really like black labs or if pushed, a chocolate that is a good deep liver colour rather then the lighter type, like preferring dark chocolate to milk

When my daughter and son in law are in a position to have a dog of their own it will be a well bred fully health tested Black or Chocolate lab.

Even though they love my Elkhounds, what they, especially he, wants from a dog is different to me.

After talking to her that we can find a lab she'll love just as much as hershie ( our yellow lab). And she can get a black or chocolate lab so she has agreeded to a Labrador.

So we have found our breed in the lovable lab

Result, now move very carefully in your search.

This is the most popular breed registered with the Kennel Club, and also arguably exploited by many purely for commecial reasons.

You want to find an excellent breeder who fully health tests their breeding stock (no short cuts or excuses) and selects for temperament, and breed standard/working.

My personal choice would be someone who shows but aims for a more dual purpose dog.

I dislike either extreme of looks between Field and show lines in looks.

I would still opt show line for your needs, though I know workers that are on the less hot scale.

You should contact breeders who appear to breed ethically and arrange to meet them and their dogs. Once you have found ones your comfortable with (find 2 or 3) then ask to go on their waiting lists, expecting to wait 6 - 18 months.

Be very careful, there are breeders even on Champdogs, that claim fully health tested with good results, yet still use dogs with elbow scores that are not 0.in a numerous popular breed like Labradors there is absolutely no excuse for using a dog/bitch with an elbow score that is not 0.

The KC health test result page is very useful for finding out the truth on elbow/hip scores etc. Bear in mind the BVA recommend only using dogs with a elbow score as ED is more genetically linked than HD

I'm glad you've decided on the Lab, everything you are wanting in a dog is in this breed. With the right training and with the right lines your sister will have what she is looking for in a dog and likewise yourself.
I much prefer the show lines myself though over the years they seemed to have lost some of their leg length. Working lines have gone away completely from the breed standard with many looking more like a slightly broader greyhound/whippet look.
There are some very good breeders out there, the breed clubs either national or regional and there are a few should be able to point you in the right direction of breeders to consider on the type you want and those who fully health test too.

It's the lack of leg length that makes me ptefer the show breeders trying to keep to a more workmanlike type.

I agree a lot of the purely working lines hardly look lije whst the man in the street would recognise as a Labrador.

Hershie was a Yellow show lab but he didn't have the short leg issue. He was proper yellow not cream or white as ive seen some. Mom got him health tested because she wanted to know his hip score and elbow score and got him eye tested. His elbows were 0 and hips were 2 1\1 which is a good score. He never was a stud by the way she just had this interest in knowing his scores for some reason.

He lived till the age of 13 and a half. He died after he cut himself badly when playing and it got infected and the vets did put him on antibiotics but it kept getting worser and they could not save him.

I like showlines and ill look at duel purpose as well. Show lines are the top of my list.

Even ifnot breeding having the hips and elbows scored lets you know how best to manage things if results less than good, ditto DNA status for conditions there are tests for.

One would hope that a good breeder would have most conditions which are DNA tested as hereditary clear now as all the tests have been out a fair while. Though saying that using a carrier to a clear is not a problem, if breeding on then you'd still need to DNA test for that condition and then every 2nd generation which is HC will need to be tested again.

H Sara, can you please update us  on your situation? How is everything with you and your doggy? Do you think you made the right choise?

I think this poster settled on getting cats in the end

Sue- no we did not decided to go with cats as we already have one ( hes not my cat hes jens).

We did decide on a labrador but after we saw some even in a different colour to the one we had as a kid jen was in tears and said a lab is not a possibility.

I have persuaded her to have a Golden and shes met some and when she was around them she didn't care around the friendly to strangers issue she had before.

Were looking at golden breeder and plan to get one in a few years

Forget about dogs (), I'd really love to have a valais blacknose sheep.  Almost a dog and soooooo cute.