I heard back from the Eurasier society and they told me that the Eurasier was bred to be a companion and were not bred to be a guard for example and so dont bark excessively , they do alert to someone at the door but soon settle with training. She said overall thanks to the chow in them they are a  quiet breed and would be perfect for us.

She said that some eurasiers are easy to train and if you pick the right eurasier puppy for you then they can be easy to train.

She said they are great with other dogs , can be aloof with people but without being aggressive , but she said some eurasiers though are friendly with other people not all are aloof.

They do form strong bonds with there people and she feels would be a good fit for my sister as there calm dogs even as pups there easygoing and not a boisterous as some breeds even as pups.

We like the sound of the Eurasier and are at the top of our list.

The only thing stopping me is still that there a spritz breed and i find it hard to believe they a really are that quiet as ive always seen spritz breeds being very very vocal.

Is it true that not all spritz are vocal and the chow is quiet?

I'd really like help on getting rid of this not beliveing there quiet even though the breed society has said they are.

Ive also heard from one breeder so far who said the exact same thing as the society

Our hope of a Eurasier have been dashed by the breed club they have said that they are not a yappy breed but they are alert barkers and unlike a Golden you wont be able to teach a command to stop barking.

Normal rules do not able to the eurasier , there also not as affectionate as some breeds either. And have a high prey drive.

All of this has put jen off as she is worried about not being able to train them since normal rules dont apply and scared Theo will get chased.

So looks like were going for the Golden since we will be able to train them to be quiet when told and to not chase Theo

Same but i was told there not for me by the Society , i was told that they are alert barkers too and that the training i was thinking of doing ( training the pup to alert me or tell me what he wants without barking ) i was told a Eurasier cant be taught to do that type of training and that labs and Goldens are the best for service dogs for a reason. With the sort of training i want to do they said a Golden is better suited as you can train a Golden to do anything were you cant tell a eurasier what to do.

Every year in November, in the UK the Finnish Spitz Club host the NORDIC show, the only time all Spitz are under one roof in the UK.

Within the Group they do range quite considerably on the vocal scale, quiet, barkers, howlers.

Chows are probably quietest, Basenji are barkless, but make quite a racket of high pitched yodels!

All the Eurasiers I have met seem to have taken after the Chows.

Had they arrived in the UK at the time (1992), I may well have had them instead of the Elkhounds, and seriously considered it last year when I lost my Ridl at only 5.

In the end after 8 generations with the Elkhounds, all the investment of study, time, money and effort, I'm sticking with my breed.

As my remaining 2 girls are 12 1/2 and 14,  from 3 litters planned this year I hope to have 2 puppies.

I bred 2 of the bitches, and the Great Grandmother of the other, and I bred the mothers of 2 of the studs and Great Grandfather of the 3rd.

I can envisage a lot of work, but due to the age of my current dogs a single pup would most likely be left alone within a year or so, and I don't want to be left with just one breeding age bitch again after what happened last year. You can loose your lines so easily!

I was told the same as the OP brainless that you cant teach a eurasier to not bark on command as there not a biddable breed like Goldens who will do anything you say. I told them that i was fine with barking to alert me as long as they stop when told and i was told you cant teach a eurasier to not bark its there nature to alert bark. So even though they take after the chow and tend to be quiet they are not as trainable which was the issue for me , if i could have at least trained them to stop when i say i would have gone for the eurasier but that itls not possible

Sounds to me that Jen has been very upfront about her concerns which is excellent and certainly  knows what she wants and more importantly doesn't want
I can understand her worries about her cat having got cats and dogs and we still have to work on the leave the cat command and brooke isnt a pup
Its a big descion taking on any breed of dog and I am pleased she has decided on the breed that seems right for her and your family

Thanks all

Furriefreinds: yes we both really liked the eurasier but being told you cant teach a command to tell them to be quiet and the preydrive issue was what did it for jen she wants a dog who will do whatever she says in terms of training so if she says leave theo she wants the dog to leave him and if after barking at someone at the door or barking to tell us somthing that we can teach a quiet command so when she says quiet he stops and we can achive this with a Golden but not a Eurasier as there not as biddable as a Golden.

Jen also wants a dog who loves cuddles and playing and again the Eurasier is not as affectionate or playful it seems like everything is on there terms if they dont want to do something they wont were a Golden will be up for anything and will do whatever you say. Which jen prefers.

Theo is actually snuggly for a cat he loves affection and cuddles but only with jen with her he is almost dog like but with me its a whole other story.

Luckily the Golden was the one i prefered between the Golden and lab and i persuaded jen to go Golden.

There's quite a difference between trainable and 'eager to please' which is what many think of when they mean 'trainable'.

The problem with the 'Eager Beavers' is they often really need a lot of training. More than the average pet owner wants to do.

Without it, they get bored frustrated, go 'self employed' often ending up with unacceptable behaviour issues,

This is why so often potential owners are steered to show type in breeds that are still worked, as dogs with lots of working drive are not easy.

It's like comparing a high performance car to a family car.

So of course you can train most breeds in basic good manners knowing what drives and rewards them.

My dog trainer friend told me once that most owners despite what they say, actually need a rather amiable but 'thick' dog.

Brainless: the thing is we have been told that we cant teach a quiet command to the eurasier by the breed club which is not what jen wants she wants a dog who once trained will listern to whatever she says and they said the Golden would be a better fit as you cant tell a Eurasier what to do they have to want to do it. Were goldens will do whatever you say

Seems a strange thing to say, if I can teach my breed, when I had 6 in a suburban 3 bed end of terrace not to be needlessly gobby, then teaching an already pretty quiet breed should be easy peasy, but there you go.

I thought it was weird but thats what the breed club said and i asked the society about this and from a training point of view they seemed to agree so i dont know what to believe regarding the Eurasier but i think the safest bet is the Golden.

When I bought my current golden I spent a lot of time researching breeders as well as type. There is basically three ‘types’ of golden these days (only one when I bought my first one in 1987), show bred, working bred and dual purpose bred. I prefer the look of the working bred golden, slimmer, less profuse coat and usually a darker gold. The show type has a tendency to be heavier built and more stocky, heavier and longer coated and usually the lighter colours particularly to what is referred to as cream.
I was then told about dual purpose dogs who having both a mix of working and show lines in the pedigree are less intense then some working lines yet not a stocky as the show lines. I thought this seemed a good compromise for us as we are older (and sadly not getting younger), but being retired could spend plenty of time with the dog. Of my previous dogs two of them could have been considered as dual purpose bred dogs going by their pedigrees, and only one was show bred and she turned out not to be the the sharpest tool in the box, in fact she was quite dim at most things apart from hunting rabbits. She was not easy to train as she wasn’t that interested in learning really, the others have been far easier and the one I have now practically falls over herself to understand what we want her to do and we’ve realised over the years how much she knows about us and our habits and reacts accordingly.
When I went to see her breeders we talked long and hard about their characters. I was very careful about wanting a dog with a good temperament and I put temperament as highly as health tests as it is so important. I also wanted a dog with a lower prey drive which given I was looking at puppies which had working dogs in their background might seem counterintuitive. Genetics played a part here as to what was inherited and the breeders wife who had spent her entire time it seems with the puppies from the moment they were born was able to guide me very well along with the series of temperament tests conducted by one of the service dog groups who came to assess the puppies as they were having one to train up.
As it happened the bitches were much of a muchness in the prey drive part of the test which is rolling a ball and seeing what the puppy will do. In Isla’s case she started to run after the ball, but came back to the person as she much prefers to be with her people then chase something. This has worked extremely well for us as she recalls easily if she has put up a small furry or a deer (backed up by training of course). Dimmy daydream, as we nicknamed the show line dog, would have just kept on going without a care in the world and ended up totally lost

So several things to bear in mind if you’ve managed to get to the end of this overlong screed.
Think about the type of golden you are looking for and find a good breeder who is breeding for good temperament as well as health and be guided by the expertise of the breeder as to which puppy will be the right one for you

> I think black fur shows up less on clothing then yellow!

From my experience with my tricolours, and the black carpeting in my car, it's always the white hairs that stick out!!

I'd avoid mix-bred puppies like the plague.   However, a Poodle, especially the Standards, are lovely and very intelligent from those I've known at least.   Well worth considering I think.

Just know that now is maybe not the time to be buying a puppy - of most breeds.   The prices being asked are just crazy (unless you have unlimited funds although I'd still not encourage greeders).   And even if you might be able to Rescue, be warned, they are being inundated with enquiries, probably because many people cannot afford the prices being asked for puppies, purebred or otherwise.

Thank you for that info Jodi we are looking at duel purpose as im not a fan of cream Goldens i prefer them to be proper Golden but working lines are not for us so duel purpose is the best for us.

We have been looking at breeders were not ready nust yet but we have found one so far we like the look of.

Johnsongrace Golden retrievers

I know of them, good breeders. Glad you have found someone.
Is Jasmine having a litter, I really like the look of her

Not contacted her yet but i will soon.

I like the look of her Goldens and i was getting the impression of good breeder

So agree with you.

For 10 years I walked a mostly working line Golden bitch with my Elkhounds as her owner had breathing issues, so could only manage to walk to the school her grandchildren and my children attended.

She had the most gorgeous flat golden coat with a prettier cleaner head than the pure show lines.

Jasmine does look nice. I also prefer the darker colour and shape of dual purpose goldens

Wow im looking at Dee too ( johnsongrace Goldens) i just heard back from her and she suffers tinnitus too!

If thats not a sign the Goldens for me i dont know what is.

She has had it for over 30yrs and she said all 5 of hers are quiet and she agrees the Golden is the right breed for me.

That's excellent news for you .so reassuring .Good luck I hope u are both able to find the pup you want in time

> There's quite a difference between trainable and 'eager to please' which is what many think of when they mean 'trainable'.

That’s very true. Intelligent dogs aren’t easy, and high drive dogs aren’t easy either.

Comparing the two dogs I’ve owned, there’s a huge amount of difference in how they responded to training.

Summer the lab was “Oh, we’re doing a thing. That sounds fun, why not?” She enjoyed performing behaviours but she did it because I asked, she’d have been perfectly happy knowing nothing except enough recall to go off lead.

River the papillon is more like “I know how to do this! Look how well I do it! This is AWESOME! Can we learn something new now?” Reward him a few times for something and he starts offering it. I honestly think he’s a bit addicted to the “yes” and finds being right almost as rewarding as the actual reward itself.

Summer was a solid reliable family Volvo, never going to break down on a long drive, plenty of room for kids and two week’s worth of shopping. River is a Ferrari - ridiculously fast, easy to crash, flashy and impressive but not terribly practical, with replacement parts that cost a fortune.

Love the volvo ferrari analogies

It reminds me of conversations with a former US breeder in my breed, who started in obedience with a bitch bred by one of my mentors in UK by a US import sire whose owner took half the litter to USA.

In the UK you could almost say we have what might be dogs that are middle of the road. We obviously don't hunt, but our dogs are bred from dogs that do close up in their pedigrees.

Dogs of UK breeding have hunted successfully in Scandinavia, even with just 1/4 Norwegian blood sired by a US import.

In the USA especially a few decades ago type had gone in the bigger is better, generic blousy showdog. Though many breeders bred to what they considered hunting type, but selecting for easy.

We have had regular imports from USA (but with Norwegian bloodlines) and Scandinavia on a regular basis.

Some of the US breeding are mental plods compared to the hunters.

The breeder I speak of had a pup from a pure hunting bred litter that was imported.

She found the male she had nuts as a youngster, more hyper aware of everything, needing much more input.

As she was retiring from breeding and showing, she admits he was rather much compared to the 'whatever' attitude she was used to, and not up to her standards for 'show glamour'.

That said I think because our breed inly has a real job for a short but grueling hunting season each year they have an off switch, as most of the year they are content on 'standby', so they make perfectly good all round companions,bearing their hunting traits in mind.

I think the most basic canine traits, will not be lost as easily as some other 'working' traits.

Hi

i said we think were going for a Golden , i was waiting for jen to make her mind up on the Golden before we coukd choose the breed , she does like them however shes been reading other posts on here and has found another breed she really likes and has been doing lots of reading on the breed both here and on other forums and websites.

I had never heard of the breed if im honest but they are stunning dogs , jen has found the Bernese mountain dog and she likes that when there adults there really calm and are not excitable dogs like some Goldens. She likes there not massively reactive ( if from a good breeder and then well trained ect) and she said she felt calm watching videos of them ( dont ask me how or why i dont understand her autism very well but she does)

Shes also read that there are a few people who have them as service dogs ( i think this was in the US but not sure)

I just found it interesting that they had a calming influence on her, when we watch crufts she gets nervous when she sees flyball for example so goes out the room.

So im wanting to ask if anyone can tell me if her research is correct that Bernese as adults tend to less excitable and less reactive and tend to be chilled\calm adults?

Are they easy to train? Im presuming they are if some have gone on to be service dogs?

Jen thinks they suit what were looking for too.

The fact that they make her happy makes me happy but i need to make sure there right.

Two things I would point out about Bernese is that they are much larger then goldens and have a much shorter lifespan, perhaps only to 6 years. How would your sister feel about those

I forgot to say she knows there big , the only dog in our family ( by our family i mean that a family member owns) that she was happy around was a Newfoundland but i can not do that amount of drool i dont mind a little but not to that extent. So size wise shes fine.

Lifspan shes read about as i was concered about how she'd deal with that too but she said that , that doesn't bother her as she said even a Golden could die young ,she said look at dad he lost his Springer spaniel as 5yrs to cancer and they normally have a long lifspan. You cant guarantee how long a dog will live for so thats why it doesnt bother her.

Bernese Mountain Dog Info

BMD Club - Breed Info.

Health

This is one of the things jen read https://www.thesprucepets.com/bernese-mountain-dog-4427890

Large dog = larger vet bills even without taking into account inherited conditions.  I couldn't buy a dog with such a short life span. I lost my first weimaraner at 9 and it near broke me.  last weimaraner at 11 and it was terrible but at least she'd had a bit more life. 5 or 6 years sounds a long time until your dog is 5 and then its not, heartbreakingly not.  All dogs can die young but to buy one near guarented to die young is a different thing.

You should bear in mind if this is her first dog of her own rather then childhood family dog the attachment is far greater and the sense of lose is far worse, your first dog of your own is a very very special dog - when that first dog dies it is beyond normal grief of pet.

I would say they are harder to train than a Lab or Rott. They can be very difficult to train as youngsters and need a firm but fair hand. They do have a stubbornness to them. Also they do need a good hour of walks a day, I had one that loved doing agility. My trainer thought I was being too soft and took him off me to show what she meant, suffice to say she realised it was him and not me. Did alert bark, loved to chase small furries, bunnies were always fair game as was my other. Chickens too.

They are a lovely breed but don't think because of their beauty they will love all people and dogs and will be a breeze to train. 
Their longevity is an issue, do lots of research into lines to find out what the average age of death is in the lines and what they passed from. I have zero intention of having another until the lifespan massively improves. The whole 3 years a puppy, 3 years an adult and 3yrs on borrowed time sadly is pretty accurate as a general overall.
Some lines do have good longevity as in making double figures.
You may find you have to have a much longer wait for a puppy from a good breeder.
Health testing is absolutely essential in the breed.

Want to also add 1 was very aloof to strangers to the point that fear was an issue with kids  and men he didn't know. They are a breed too many people want to touch and feel they have the right to do so without asking. They will attract a lot of people wanting to stop to speak to you about them. Will she be OK with that? Obviously she can tell them where to go lol

Ive actually been talking to her for the last hour to ask why she prefers the Bernese and there are a few (which she can get in most dogs) but the main thing shes told me is Giant breeds attract her and shes always felt her calmest around Giant breeds ( she doesnt know why either she just does)

I still have to have a say here too i told her as it will be my dog too. Im fine to go for a Giant breed. Money for vet bills is no issue luckily im in a position were if i need to pay a few thousand i will ( id also be getting good insurance too)

I said to her what about looking at the breed Barbara (Brainless) Suggested the Leonberger as they suit what were looking for.

I just dont think a Bernese is right for us based off of what people have said here

I have been watching a Video of the Leonberger that was made by a breeder and she said that they are not guard dogs there really friendly and as soon as she said they have Newfoundland in them (jens fave breed) her eyes lit up.

From my research Leonbergers seem more friendly , easy to train and quieter than the Berner.

In terms of people coming up to her yes she is the type who will tell them to sod off were im the more friendly one so will love to chat about whatever breed we go for.

Full health testing of parents is essential also in this breed.
Bare in mind if a cruciate goes which can do you need at least £4k for op and then more for rehab etc.
The breed can suffer from bone cancer too.
They are a lovely breed and know a good few breeders and owners of them.

Hi everyone

So the last 2 days ive been talking with jen and ive told i dont feel comfortable with a Giant i know she loves Giant breeds but i dont think i can handle a dog over 50kg so i said we need to knock off Giants.

Jens then been honest shes not fond on how friendly Goldens are she knows you can train your golden to stay with her but shes more concerned about how other people will want to cuddle and adult Golden as by the puplic there deemed friendly. So she would prefer a dog whose aloof or reserved with people.

Ive read some gundogs can be aloof and we did look into the Chesapeake bay Retriever but soon found out that they cant be just pets and were not sure if we want to work our dog were keeping them in mind after we have had our first dog as in the future who knows we may be bit by the working bug or show bug even. But for now were just looking for a family companion.

Im going to post below an updated version of what were looking for.

We are looking for a an easy to train dog ( were both new to dogs)

Biddable

laid back and easy going

a dog whoes friendly other pets ( has to be good with cats)

Ok with other dogs is either friendly or just ignores them

not yappy we live in a semi detached house and our neighbours are the type who would complain and we dont want to upset or annoy them so more of a quiet breed

a dog who love exercise as we love long walks

a calm dog ( jen gets uncomfortable around hyper dogs like springers due to her autism she does better around calm dogs)

Easy coat care we dont mind brushing and bathing but we could not handle a huge grooming job.

Aloof or reserved with strangers ( or is not interested in saying hi only wants to be with his people)

We both prefer large dogs upto 50kg ( no bigger than a GSD size)

A playful dog who loves his people

What about a Curly Coated Retriever? They are a bit more independent than their Golden and Lab cousins. They can be aloof to strangers.

I think with what you want in a dog you are best off sticking with breeds in the gundog group.

Me too i like the Gundogs there my fave group.

I'll look into the Curly coat retriever , do you know if they can be just pets? The Chesapeake bay on the club website it says there not pets.

I've known  one that was a pet only .he lived in a local pub and used to wander very happily and calmly among the drinkers . I dont know if that's typical or not but he was lovely

Do make sure u actually meet some as they have an oily coat and skin which may not  be acceptable to everyone but definitely worth investigating. The coat is like that naturally to help it be waterproof so not something g u can bathe away

Just going back to Leo's, you would not be starting with a Giant, and you would be confident with your own dog bybtime it grew.I would advise a Head Collar/halter for control (power steering), but I usevthose on my digs, as have walked multple dogs (up to 6) at once. Certainly their sheer size would ensure not everyone would be looking to rush up to them, yet they are the steady non hyper but friendly dog you mention.

Grooming wise, would be quite therapeutic to groom as no proffesional skills needed (Good long toothed comb, slicker and pin brush).

I perfectly understand not wanting the adhd hyper attitude thing in some breeds, I can't bear. It's why I like the larger Spitz, friendly but self reliant and more dignified, certainly as adults. My own breed are characterised as Bold.and energetic, but not annoyingly in your face.

I still come back to the Chow influenced little more aloof Eurasier.

Brainless: when i say i dont think i can handle a Giant i mean handle to live with such a large dog and we really dont have the space for such a big dog. The biggest we could go is GSD size.

As i said the Eurasier we found was not biddable and not easy to train and they only do things if they want to which is not what we wanted, plus a lot of breeders ignored our emails.

Once you have a shortlust of breeds you need to meet some, preferably as a group.

My own breeds Facebook groups have people organising inproptu walks in various locations to meet up.

Someone will propose a venue and date, usually a Country Park or similar with somewhere outdoors to get refreshments.

You get a mix of owner types, purely pet, exhibitor, breeder, and various ages (both of owners and dogs).

> <br /> a lot of breeders ignored our emails

It's very rude, but you will find this at the moment, as breeders are just overwhelmed with enquiries, and have long waiting lists.

Breeds that are not 'commercial' with primarily breed enthusiasts if anything have curtailed breeding plans at a time of worryingly increased demand.

Ah I understand the size thing, but I find the length of a GSD takes up a lot of room (visit lot's of friends with them).

You have a slight dichotomy re biddability/training, the eager to please breeds are often the in your face hyper ones, where as the ones with a more relaxed character often like to please themselves and are easier to live with.

If it's only good house manners you need, then ANY DOG that isn't brain damaged can be trained.

When I still let my independant breed off lead regularly we would meet many individuals from classically trainable breeds that were far less obedient than mine.

I no longer let mine off lead due to other people. As my breed naturally range ahead, and are a tracking hunter they can be selectively deaf on occasion, and not always have an instant recall when on a scent.

Some of the easiest breeds to live with, Greyhounds, Whippets would never qualify as obedience stars, but are polite, quiet low key, happy with steady lead walking and a short energy blast in a safe enclosed area.

Brainless: i forgot to say another thing that put us off the leo is they may not bark a lot but they talk which is why they are still vocal. Jen joined a facebook groul for Leos ( im not on facebook so she joined) and they said they dont bark much but they talk a lot and sound exactly like Chewbacca and it can go on for 30mins or more which jen said that would drive her nuts if she was trying to watch TV and hes talking non stop.

With the eurasier breeders when i say they ignored me i mean we got an email from the eurasier society saying they know we have contacted some of there breeders and that we'd already been given advice by themselves. So the breeders didn't bother to reply instead they contacted the society. Which is very off putting since i wanted to hear from people who live with the breed.

Yes we only want to teach good manners and to be able to teach a quiet command after we have been alerted to strangers at the door we can say thank you you cant stop now I'll take over.

But the eurasier society said you cant teach this with a eurasier and thats why we went off them.

Had you considered a Greyhound, or is the longdog shape and coat not for you?

I got very attached to an ex racer I regularly walked with, joining my my Dog Walker friend with mine for walks.

She also had a puppy whippet who would have a mad dash around but otherwise was good on, and pretty good off lead, as was the Greyhound.

In fact most of the lurchers we walked with were good too, but more variable noise wise and hunting drive wise depending on the cross.

I also like Pharoah hounds, knew a lady with a Champion bitch with her main toy breed.

She was one of the first to bring in the Cirneco del Etna, very similar looks, but Whippet size. These are pretty trainable.

Greyhound coats are a little too short for jen. I was suggested by a friend to look into the silken windhound ( sorry if i mispelt there name)

He said that they are easy to to train compared to other sighthounds and are quiet and not fussed about other people?

I was going to mention them, and one of our regular posters has them.

This is a truly rare breed in development stages getting established here with strict breeding and health testing rules.

It's why I mentioned the Cirneco which though rare are longer established and are similarily very trainable for a hound.

One of my breed friends now shows them.

Has anyone ever seen SaraE, Goldensforever and Sarakingsley in the same room together?

If I was getting another dog I would seriously consider a Silken as they have the long coat that I like and I’m quite fond of whippets. The smaller size is also appealing now I’m getting older

Chamsung is the person to speak to about silkens.

Id be interested to know about the Chow too. Ive read there quiet but are very difficult to train dont know how true that is and read there not for first timers

Sorry I deleted my post as I did some reading on the breeders section and wonder if the traits would make it unsuitable.  See what brainless says unless the chow owner in here who posts occasionally sees the question
Shame about gsd as I am beginning to wonder if a gsd  from good breeding would suit . There are downsides as the gp tends to be generally wary of them but it does mean people tend to avoid u ime
Otherwise the golden is still looking the most ideal and is trainable so it doesn't have to interact with everyone .especially if u choose low dog areas to walk