>just joined avidog and going to navigate around that tomorrow

Well done on signing up for Avidog. I'd just like to strongly advise you to prioritise joining their FB group because that's going to help you most immediately - there is a lot of info to digest in the online courses and you probably don't have time now to do that, but you can ask and get instant replies in the FB group. The link for it is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AvidogBreederMembership

(It can only be joined if you are a member, so no point anyone else attempting to join as they check your name against enrolment.)

> I wasn't sure if they were allowed in the garden pre injections I've not actually read that far in my book yet. <br />

Yes to going outside pre-vaccination, provided you know there's been no puppy/adult with Parvo out there within the past couple of years!   We always got our puppies out when they were old enough.   It's amazing how they come on after some warm sun on their backs!   BUT be careful re the weather.  Most of our litters were born into the better weather, for just this reason - and because for new owners, it's easier to have a puppy when the weather improves, for housetraining!  It wasn't easy to get mine outside because once old enough, they were HEAVY to the point I could only carry max. two at the same time leaving those indoors to shout.   I couldn't let them run from their indoor quarters to the outside.   Once they'd played enough outside, I tended not to leave them out there sleeping so it was carrying back in again    Small wonder it's my back that's now bad.

> Once they'd played enough outside, I tended not to leave them out there sleeping so it was carrying back in again.

That's why I bought an extra large plastic dog house ( like a varikennel without a door), that mine would use to 'crash' and pile up in, between playing bouts.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferplast-Kenny-7-Plastic-Kennel/dp/B001N02AFE/ref=asc_df_B001N02AFE/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=205156986444&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6112144021301467169&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007178&hvtargid=pla-422725615393&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

This will allow you to let pups stay out for a couple of hours weather permitting.

Hah - we bought a purpose build wooden kennel but do you think my lot piled in when tired - no.   They just crashed.  It was a posh kennel too......

Sort of like this, only bigger. -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Insulated-Large-Dog-Kennel-Pet-Puppy-Garden-House-Wooden-With-Removable-Floor-UK/203042708517?hash=item2f4649dc25:g:cpsAAOSw4j1fBWl1&var=503256466068

The friend who I helped whelp his first litter buult one like that, but like yors the pups wouldn't use it, he'd find them asleep in the planters!

My pups loved piling into the plastic house, with the opening in the end, maybe it was lighter and warmer, with neutral smell?

Brainless:  Totally get the planters!

I put a 'raised bed' in the wooden kennel - a bit like a wee trampoline with vets bed velcroed under the legs and on top of it .  It means the ones that like to be high up are and those that don't hide under it.  Both lots flat out though

Mine love the raised beds since I discovered them a few years ago and got rid of all the plastic beds.

My 2 old girls like them topped with waterproof dog bed covers filled with old duvets.

In summer just a vetbed.

Brainless: Yes.  They are brilliant things. My adult dogs have them too.  The plastic ones were chewed to bits within weeks.  The raised ones with metal feet are a whole different 'ball game' and the Puppies see it as an adventure....briliant....that's when I get the best photos too. Re waterfroof covers filled with old duvets. The charity shops are brilliant for these although I only have one girl who has one.  My golden oldie.

I buy the easipet covers (having gone through different ones) and can wash them at 30'C on low spin. They are only about a tenner.

Thank you.  Need to look at easipet on line. I have a separate washing machine for the guys and funny you should mention the 'heat' & 'spin' cycles. Lets just say I have 'boulders' of plastic on the side that make my kennels look like an agility course!

Is one allowed to mention which branch of "Dog's Trust"? ..

Any update? I keep checking in to see how things are going.

Hi All, nothing to report here to be honest. Mum is huge but other than being restless over night no sign of puppies. She does keep leaking a clear or white coloured discharge, is eating like a horse but is still super active on her walks and excited when her harness comes out. I've just been leaving her to it but last 2 days I've definitely seen and felt pups move. As I don't know her due date but know pups couldn't be seen on scan on 14th Jan but could 4 days later I'm assuming she's due any day. She's still good in herself, pups are still moving so I'm assuming I don't stress and I let nature take over? Is there a way to create an album on here of photos once they are born? I'm not sure if you can upload pictures?

Thanks to everyone for the advice I'm sorting the garden this week and I'm getting a heated outdoor shed brought over from my mums. We had it for the rabbits but it'll come in handy on play times

I think things are happening, shes started digging in the garden excessively so I have brought her in. Shes panting really heavily non stop and leaking lots of discharge thats tinged pink. I mean lots of discharge... Could this be the start of things and is pinky discharge normal? I assume so? No signs of contractions yet though

She's definitely in second stage labour now - it sounds as if the water bag has ruptured and the first pup should be with you very soon. Good luck!

Put her in the whelping box and give her lots of blankets to dig around in, in there.

We are now having contractions, for the last half hour. She's leaking milk and is in her whelping box. She is panting really heavy and contractions every few mins.

All sounds absolutely normal. You will see her starting to push soon, I’d want to see the first pup within an hour of pushing.

We have 1 pup, she chewed the cord and it squeaked a little bit but it's now crawling but totally silent. Please tell me it's normal it's quiet

V normal, just reassure her. You should note the time of the first visible contraction. If a pup isn't born within 2 hours of that, you should call your vet. The clock restarts for each pup, so after a pup comes out, note the first sign of the next contraction... and so on. When the contractions are very frequent (every few mins), then you want to see a pup within 45mins of that... If you want to help speed things up, get her to walk about the house or the garden. (Keep a close eye in the garden in case a pup comes out...)

If there are no contractions and she's resting peacefully between pups then you're not timing anything. She's just in a whelping pause.

If it's moving, it's fine. Without taking it away from her, take a towel and rub it down vigorously. Hopefully it will squeak a bit more. Leave the pup with her till the next one comes along, then you can kinda scoot it off to one side in the whelping box if you need to, as she delivers another.

Thank you, first ones is feeding well but mumma keeps licking her everytime she goes to the teat. She's squeaking now. I cleared out her nose and mouth with the bulb and rubbed her with a towel

You are doing really well.

That's fine. Mum needs to lick her, it stimulates the pup's nervous system to develop and it stimulates her own contractions. So does the pup nursing on her, that will also help stimulate contractions for the rest of them.

The only thing to take care of is that mum doesn't get too obsessive or over-zealous with the licking when she's only got one pup and end up making the pup sore, that is unlikely but can happen. When her licking has lots of pups to focus on, it won't be a prob!

We have 2 now, 1 boy 1 girl. Unsure if dad was a rottweiler now as both have white markings on their chests. She's doing really good I think we will have a third soon. Thank you everyone

It's perfectly possible to have multiple fathers. Meaning, she could have mated with more than one dog and have pups from multiple sires in the same litter.

You could DNA test them if you want to find out for sure, but it is expensive.

And then there was 3. 2 girls 1 boy all healthy and feeding well. No real intervention needed so far.

>You could DNA test them if you want to find out for sure, but it is expensive.

You would also need DNA samples from each possible sire.

>No real intervention needed so far.

She's getting into her stride now, and her instincts are telling her what to do, which is perfect.

Brilliant and what a decent time of day to start too :-)

We have 5 now. 3 girls 2 boys, mumma is doing this perfectly all by herself

Well done both of you! It must be really exciting (and a bit worrying, I bet).

I'm just worried about 1 boy so far, he's the smallest at 373g compared to the rest at about 500g. He doesn't seem to have the suck reflex but he's not really trying to feed. He's with the others but quiet. She's had last one at 7.30 had no contractions until 5 mins ago so we have at least 1 more due

DanniC83:  Well done - good job!  Don't be panicking about the wee boy.  If you lift him from the litter, turn him belly up, give his little throat gentle strokes for a minute or two and then turn him back over.  Hold him quite tightly in cupped hands to reinstate stability and then place him on one of the middle nipples.  Sure there's nothing wrong just needs a little more stimulation and the last Puppy born maybe similar.  Hope this helps x

Danni, don't worry about the small boy yet. Some pups just have a not-so-good place in the uterus. Their placenta implants somewhere where they don't get as great a flow of nutrients as the other puppies, so they don't grow as much. But once they are out in the world, they usually make up for it - although it might take him a bit longer to get over whelping.

What you can do, is put the biggest and strongest pup on one of the big back teats and wait until they are sucking hard and appear to be getting something - then take off the big strong pup and hold the little weak pup there and help him get the nipple in. You want them all to get colostrum from mum.

Don't supplement with anything(!!) for at least 12+ hours - because once you give them anything other than mum's colostrum, their gut walls will close off and they will be unable to absorb her colostrum any longer. So you need to avoid supplementing (unless it's a case of possibly dying!) for at least 12-24hrs and try to ensure they all get colostrum. They don't need loads of it, just some.

Lastly, colostrum (which is what mum will have at the moment) isn't very filling and is a bit frustrating. So you often get a lot of frustrated puppies who want more milk crying and roughly pummelling away on mum at this time. THAT IS NORMAL! It is not a sign that mum doesn't have enough milk(!) - she will make it in response to them. But she needs 12hours or so to do that, so just bear with it and don't supplement!

And I forgot to say - it is also NORMAL for their weight to drop from the birth weight, in the 1-2 days after whelping. They should gain steadily after that. Birth weight dropped in 1-2 days post whelping is not a reason to supplement.

Also don't expect large breed pups to double their weight in a week.

My own pups average 12 - 14oz immiediately after birth often dropping as mentioned above, so I am happy if they gain 5 - 8 ounces for first week.

After that the rate of daily weight gain will steadily increase.

So we have 6, doesn't look like there will be any more but mumma seems really distressed now. She's digging and keeps leaving the whelping box and whining. Do I leave her she's only just out of the box or encourages her back?

Nows the time to get some calcium into her.

Yes encourage her back, as the first 3 days pups need to be almost constantly suckling to stimulate the milk supply.

How hot is the whelping box? Are pups huddling or spreading out.

Digging is a sign of discomfort, as her uterus contracts down.

Are you sure she has finishedas they can also be very restlesd if they still have a (possibly dead by now) puppy left.

Digging and restlessness and lack of comfort after whelping is a sign of a lack of calcium.

So you want to give her calcium now. If you have Avidog membership, you will find a calcium calculator link on the relevant pages for whelping and it will tell you exactly how much calcium you need to give. If you have any questions about types of calcium or where to get it from, ask in the Avidog FB group.

Calo Cal D is what I have been prescribed and used in the past, as Calcium has to be in right proportions with vitamin D to be absorbed.

Not sure if you can get it without prescription, but either way itvwill be cheaper from on-line pharmacy.

You don’t need a prescription for Calo cal

The problem is calo cal D doesn't say what type of calcium it is, nor how much elemental calcium is in it - so it's impossible to dose correctly.

In order to know how much calcium to give, you need to know what type of calcium it is because the amount of elemental calcium differs from one to another. Without that info, it's no use - and the quantities recommended by manufacturers are typically far too low to be enough.

As it was a Vet prescribed product I trusted it was suitable.

I was told to double the dose as this bitch (not mine) who had terrible gastroenteritis at end of pregnancy was so low in calcium that she needed C section after first pup.

Hi Danni. Hope all is still well (as its been a while since you last posted).
I would agree with the comments above re getting some calcium into her. I know Avidog info and previous posts if you do a search on here will give you dosage recommendations, and sometime this is referenced to Tums antacid tablets- extra strength ones contain 750mg calicum carbonate per tablet. I found my bitch didn't like the taste of Tums (even ground up in melted ice cream or evaporated milk) so I used supermarket calcium/vit d tablets in the same way (LIDL do a tub of 65 for less than £2), each LIDL tablet contains 400mg calicum carbonate with vitamin d as well to aid absorption. I used these in the same calculations , (roughly double the amount of TUMs the calculations advise) and ground (with a rolling pin) then stirred into evaporated milk/egg yolk/liver water or tinned sardines to be very palatable (by the dog- didn't fancy it myself). Dosing in this way regularly really helped my bitch settle if she was showing even very minor signs of 'non maternal behaviour'. It may well be that as her nutrition wasn't great before you got her that her Ca reserves aren't the best. For the short time you'll be supplementing her, while she's also lactating its pretty impossible to overdose her on the calcium.

Well as vets don't even understand the use of calcium, often run blood tests and tell people it's normal when we know that supplementing helps weird mothering behaviours and when there's no research into the use of calcium for vets to base their opinions on, it doesn't really mean anything that a vet recommended that product. (They could not really prescribe it, as it's not a prescription medication. They can sell it to you... )

Hi all I am so sorry for lack of updates but we are all still here. I had already got in the collo cal d because the book of the bitch said it may be required. I have given her 45ml as it says 1ml per kilo. She's since passed two placenta and contractions have stopped. She's no longer digging and all have been hanging off her teats all day. She's been out to pee but not managed to go proper toilet yet. She's peed tons I added glucose to her water earlier and that also seemed to pick her up. I'm having to offer her food and water all the time as she doesn't really choose to get it. When I sit next to her with her bowls she eats and drinks happily. She is content now and sleeping with them. The only time she gets stressed is when she gets up they move and cry and she's unsure how to get them all together again it's the only time I'm having to intervene other than putting runty who is now named luna (has one full white foot) on the biggest teat. All 6 are doing well the biggest weighs 550g the smallest luna 252g the rest are all 400g and above. They simply eat cry sleep it's just me n mumma that ain't sleeping. I had a 2 hour respite last night when my daughter watched her but I see crying puppies being squished in my sleep so I don't rest. She is still refusing to be in the whelping box so I've put a king-size duvet folded up on the floor for now until I can think what to do. I will try again with it once she's in a routine but she stresses when I get her in it and digs and whines. Probably being stupid but could the Labour in it have traumatised her? Am weighing them all at 8pm so will update with there yesterday's and today weights. Thank you all so much you have all helped me have 6 pups that hopefully will all thrive.

Oh just to add the room temp is 26 degrees, the heat mat is on and pups are constantly suckling. There's only been a few instances when they have moved away from her and she stresses and nudges them back.

Can you all please advise I'm worried about Luna the runt
Light pink girl weighed 453g at birth and is now 481g
Red girl weighed 515g is now 577g
Blue boy was 373g and is now 411g
Dark pink girl was 430g is now 485g
Green boy was 460g is now 494g
Luna was 252g and has only put on 1g but she was born last at 10pm last night. The rest where born between 3.15pm and 7pm

Will she be OK she's so so small but she's mighty, lively and suckling

I wouldn’t worry. She was born much later than the others. All signs look good for now.